THE BIG 10 THREAD

[kburjr]

The stars are aligned this year and Ohio State has a generationally great team. They have made everyone in the conference look bad, but there are still 5 other good teams. Wisconsin, Penn St, Michigan, Minnesota and Iowa. I think we can go 5 deep with anyone. Bring on the SEC at Bowl time and let's see. Damn, I wish we had some bowl alliances with the Big 12.

 

[PnkPanther]

It’s funny watching Michigan fans use Minnesota or Michigan State as a measuring stick as if the programs should be anywhere close to what Michigan should be..

Hey, MN was once one of the premier programs of the B1G. Just ignore everything past the 60's

I find it more comical when Nebraska is trying to turn tOHSU into a rivalry but right now are closer rivals of Mn/Purdue and the other have nots trying to become not completely have nots

 

[PnkPanther]

I would take PJ Fleck over Jim Harbaugh as a coach right now and it's really not close at all.

samsies

I'd also take him over Frost, Brohm, and the other new blood.

 

[PnkPanther]

Okay

I don't like being in a position to defend Harbaugh, I just don't see it as black and white as some of you

 

[kburjr]

BTW, Wisconsin hasn't beaten OSU since 2010. Not much hope this year either. I can't kick on Michigan too much, but when #1 is out of sight, you play for #2, #3 and so on. It's more possible Wisconsin ends up a 4 loss team than a 2-loss team

 

[navamind]

that's fine if you want to rip on Harbaugh for not beating OSU (it would be nice to eke one out every now and then), but let's not act like there's other schools consistently beating them either. Penn State has one win over OSU since 2011. Wisconsin hasn't beaten OSU since Tressel. Iowa beat them in 2017 but they've only played 9 times since 2000. Nebraska's lone win over OSU was in 2011. Northwestern and OSU play sparingly and the last NU win was in 2004 when Randy Walker was the coach. the only team that's really been able to beat them on a "consistent" basis over the last decade is Michigan State (they won in 2011, 2013 and 2015) and they're falling off a cliff. Purdue's won 4 of the last 9 versus OSU, but they've also only played three times since Urban took over.

the last time OSU lost more than one conference game was in 2011. they're the Alabama of the B10.

 

[ericd7633]

You're right, he was 2-10 coming into this season. As things stand, he's 2-11, could be 2-13 depending on if PSU wins their bowl and Wisconsin wins their's assuming they lose the CCG. That's pathetic. Again, he is the 3rd highest paid coach in the nation. What are you paying him that much money for when he isn't accomplishing anything?

And you're comparing him to Texas A&M now? A program that has one double-digit win season this century? And how is that working out for A&M, by the way?

Are you saying, if you're a college football fan, you'd rather your team wallow around in relative mediocrity with a guy who honestly looks like the game has past him by, as opposed to going and grabbing a younger, hungrier head coach who might actually energize the program, and for much less money?

You're right, it's not good. But Michigan as a program has a total of SEVEN top 10 wins this century. In 20 seasons. Just 7. IMO, you're paying him that much so your program doesn't start losing to Maryland and Rutgers again. That's more embarrassing than losing to OSU every year.

And no, I'm not comparing him or Michigan to A&M. I'm just threw out a program that is in a similar situation.

I don't think Michigan has been mediocre under Harbaugh. They have a top 10 winning percentage since he's been there. Can a young up and coming coach do better than that? If I had to guess I'd probably say no.

 

[ericd7633]

So why are you paying a guy top 3 money to be a fringe top 10 program? Where's the logic there? They're a blueblood in today's landscape in terms of everything regarding the program other than winning, and that comes down to coaching.

You need to overpay if you think you have the right coach. Who in their right mind would say Jim is the right coach though? Brohm is making a mint because he actually looks like he's making a difference at a school that has been a bottom-feeder for the majority of their existence. Pound the hell out of an Urban Meyer team and bring in some 4* kids to a program that isn't used to it, and yeah you're gonna get paid. Harbaugh can't do the former, and despite having loads of talent, can't beat the truly elite teams.

We'll see with Day. Right now, we look like we're getting a bargain. If he keeps this up for 3-4 years when Urban's kids are gone, then he's going to get paid more than $8m. Might be closer to double that.

You pay him that, one, because he has leverage and two, because if you don't there is a chance you revert back to what you were pre Harbaugh, which was basically a .500 program during the RR and Hoke years.

Michigan was a bottom feeder before Harbaugh. They were 24-32 in B1G play under RR and Hoke. Not as shitty as Purdue but still bad.

 

[navamind]

You pay him that, one, because he has leverage and two, because if you don't there is a chance you revert back to what you were pre Harbaugh, which was basically a .500 program during the RR and Hoke years.

Michigan was a bottom feeder before Harbaugh. They were 24-32 in B1G play under RR and Hoke. Not as shitty as Purdue but still bad.

yeah, I'm not going to complain about Harbaugh being a return to the Carr era after that. even that 11 win season in 2011 felt like it had more to do with a weak conference (and Michigan didn't play Wisconsin or Penn State that year) than the team being really good. MSU was probably the best team we played that year and we lost that game pretty decisively.

 

[Across The Field]

You're right, it's not good. But Michigan as a program has a total of SEVEN top 10 wins this century. In 20 seasons. Just 7. IMO, you're paying him that much so your program doesn't start losing to Maryland and Rutgers again. That's more embarrassing than losing to OSU every year.

And no, I'm not comparing him or Michigan to A&M. I'm just threw out a program that is in a similar situation.

I don't think Michigan has been mediocre under Harbaugh. They have a top 10 winning percentage since he's been there. Can a young up and coming coach do better than that? If I had to guess I'd probably say no.

So that is seven top 10 wins in 20 seasons, and only one has been in the last 5 years. That means they had six top 10 wins in 15 years before him. That is the baseline of what michigan should expect. You don't pay a guy $9m a year with the only expectation being that he beats the bottom feeders. You pay him that and give him essentially anything and everything he wants because you expect results. He has given them none, and it's been 5 years.

Let's put it this way: 2018 and 2019 were the first two years Harbaugh has truly had majority of totally "his" recruits. He is putting up all-time loser numbers these past two years to OSU. I know we're a phenomenal team, but the talent gap should not be this bad. Take the coaches out of the equation, and there's nothing OSU offers that michigan can't in terms of a program. The problem is, OSU has hired the right coaches and michigan has hired the wrong ones, and Harbaugh is included.

 

[Across The Field]

You pay him that, one, because he has leverage and two, because if you don't there is a chance you revert back to what you were pre Harbaugh, which was basically a .500 program during the RR and Hoke years.

Michigan was a bottom feeder before Harbaugh. They were 24-32 in B1G play under RR and Hoke. Not as shitty as Purdue but still bad.

He has leverage? His buyout is only $11m, and what's the drawback? He leaves and you hire someone else? Again, this is michigan. Dozens of other schools with far less to offer have managed to find high quality coaches.

Also, michigan was not a bottom feeder before Harbaugh in the way Purdue has been a bottom feeder. michigan had a down period of a few years under those two coaches, but they also had an 11-win season in there, something Harbaugh has not and will not do for his 5 years, and is highly unlikely to do next year. Again, he is the 3rd highest paid coach in the nation. He beats the nobodies, usually beats decent teams, almost never beats the really good teams, and can't beat the elite ones. Bottom line, he's nowhere close to being an elite coach, so why keep paying him every year as if he is one?

 

[ericd7633]

So that is seven top 10 wins in 20 seasons, and only one has been in the last 5 years. That means they had six top 10 wins in 15 years before him. That is the baseline of what michigan should expect. You don't pay a guy $9m a year with the only expectation being that he beats the bottom feeders. You pay him that and give him essentially anything and everything he wants because you expect results. He has given them none, and it's been 5 years.

Let's put it this way: 2018 and 2019 were the first two years Harbaugh has truly had majority of totally "his" recruits. He is putting up all-time loser numbers these past two years to OSU. I know we're a phenomenal team, but the talent gap should not be this bad. Take the coaches out of the equation, and there's nothing OSU offers that michigan can't in terms of a program. The problem is, OSU has hired the right coaches and michigan has hired the wrong ones, and Harbaugh is included.

No he has two during his tenure. So he's ahead of the pace since the century started. Which is kind of my whole point. He had them at a place that is better than any other point this century. You think they are an elite program for some reason, when the truth is they haven't been at any point this century.

And yes. He's losing to OSU. Like everyone else in the B1G has this century.

 

[ericd7633]

He has leverage? His buyout is only $11m, and what's the drawback? He leaves and you hire someone else? Again, this is michigan. Dozens of other schools with far less to offer have managed to find high quality coaches.

Also, michigan was not a bottom feeder before Harbaugh in the way Purdue has been a bottom feeder. michigan had a down period of a few years under those two coaches, but they also had an 11-win season in there, something Harbaugh has not and will not do for his 5 years, and is highly unlikely to do next year. Again, he is the 3rd highest paid coach in the nation. He beats the nobodies, usually beats decent teams, almost never beats the really good teams, and can't beat the elite ones. Bottom line, he's nowhere close to being an elite coach, so why keep paying him every year as if he is one?

Yes, praise Hoke for getting to 11 wins in the shittiest year of the B1G I can remember while OSU was in a transition year. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up how much he makes as if it's relevant? 9 million, 1 million it doesn't matter to a school like Michigan.

I guess we'll find out what Michigan looks like post Harbaugh when the time comes. If they go on to beat OSU, and make the CFP and win titles I'll be wrong of course.

 

[Skerpokes]

Hey, MN was once one of the premier programs of the B1G. Just ignore everything past the 60's

I find it more comical when Nebraska is trying to turn tOHSU into a rivalry but right now are closer rivals of Mn/Purdue and the other have nots trying to become not completely have nots

I'm not aware of any Husker fans in the state of Nebraska trying to turn tOHSU into a rivalry. If anything we're more concerned with simply being competitive in the West. Most rational Husker fans are looking up at Whisky and Iowa as rivals and if Minny can sustain this success, them too.

We're simply trying to win or compete for the division year in and year out first, then we'll worry about tOHSU

 

[Across The Field]

No he has two during his tenure. So he's ahead of the pace since the century started. Which is kind of my whole point. He had them at a place that is better than any other point this century. You think they are an elite program for some reason, when the truth is they haven't been at any point this century.

And yes. He's losing to OSU. Like everyone else in the B1G has this century.

Sorry, my bad, two. But here's why it's not fair to compare the rest of the B1G to michigan - they're not michigan. They don't have the resources, they don't have the facilities, they don't have the overall capacities michigan has overall. Even when they had Brady Hoke, they were recruiting at high levels. It's because they're michigan, they're a true blue-blood program and that matters.

If PSU can beat us and play us extremely close for several years, so should michigan. If MSU can beat us three times in under a decade, then michigan definitely should. That's what this all boils down to.

 

[HuskerinBig10]

Hey, MN was once one of the premier programs of the B1G. Just ignore everything past the 60's

I find it more comical when Nebraska is trying to turn tOHSU into a rivalry but right now are closer rivals of Mn/Purdue and the other have nots trying to become not completely have nots

I think Nebraska is more of a closer rival of Northwestern. Every Northwestern game has been close since 2011. With Minnesota or Purdue there have been blowouts, both ways.

Nebraska fans want to say Wisconsin, sure, that would be nice, but only beating Wisconsin once since 2011 is not much of a rivalry.

It will end up being Iowa, if Nebraska can get a win again. Border states, and Iowa fans on the western border really hate Nebraska since they have been Big Red'd down their throats since the 1970s. Iowa fans are really loving the 5-0 run. Good for them.

 

[Across The Field]

Just an FYI for everyone saying michigan can't beat OSU because they can't recruit well:

 

[PnkPanther]

I'm not aware of any Husker fans in the state of Nebraska trying to turn tOHSU into a rivalry. If anything we're more concerned with simply being competitive in the West. Most rational Husker fans are looking up at Whisky and Iowa as rivals and if Minny can sustain this success, them too.

We're simply trying to win or compete for the division year in and year out first, then we'll worry about tOHSU

I'm probably penalizing Nebraska a bit for National Media hype, preseason ranking, frost hype, and few irrational fans I've seen

 

[ericd7633]

Sorry, my bad, two. But here's why it's not fair to compare the rest of the B1G to michigan - they're not michigan. They don't have the resources, they don't have the facilities, they don't have the overall capacities michigan has overall. Even when they had Brady Hoke, they were recruiting at high levels. It's because they're michigan, they're a true blue-blood program and that matters.

If PSU can beat us and play us extremely close for several years, so should michigan. If MSU can beat us three times in under a decade, then michigan definitely should. That's what this all boils down to.

Them being Michigan doesn't matter. The history, prestige, all that crap doesn't matter. Everyone in the B1G is flush with cash and resources, except Maryland, because they suck as an athletic department. Most schools in the B1G have great facilities now... because everyone has more money than they know what to do with it.

And yes, MSU has beaten you 3 times this decade. But two of those times weren't against great OSU teams. The 2015 game still makes me shake my head. Michigan won in 2011 like MSU and nearly won in 2013.

 

[Across The Field]

Them being Michigan doesn't matter. The history, prestige, all that crap doesn't matter. Everyone in the B1G is flush with cash and resources, except Maryland, because they suck as an athletic department. Most schools in the B1G have great facilities now... because everyone has more money than they know what to do with it.

And yes, MSU has beaten you 3 times this decade. But two of those times weren't against great OSU teams. The 2015 game still makes me shake my head. Michigan won in 2011 like MSU and nearly won in 2013.

And 2015 OSU went to Ann Arbor and absolutely boat-raced michigan. Michigan State played a perfect game against us that year with a backup QB, I'll give credit where it's due. That's the point though. We were clearly a more talented team than Michigan State that year, but they flatout out-coached us in all facets. Harbaugh has failed miserably in this regard.

Also, check out post #3677. I haven't looked it up, but I'm absolutely positive that michigan is the only school in the B1G that has gotten more 4/5* recruits than Ohio State from 2016-2019, yet they can't beat us at all. As I've said before, it's about developing kids, and that falls right on Harbaugh's shoulders, another area he has failed badly.

Also, if history and prestige don't matter, how does Notre Dame recruit so well?