The 2015 Starting Rotation - 2 Cy Young Winners and a Bunch of Injuries

[LASports96]

My wish list:

Price
Hamels
Latos

 

[Villain]

He's used to being the Ace, slide him down to #3 or #4 next year when Ryu comes back and I'd take him over almost every other team's #3/4 for sure.

Who was he the ace for?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Who was he the ace for?

Uh, just last year he pitched the wild card game for the Royals as well as Game 1 of the ALCS and WS. Was this your ace in the hole?

 

[Villain]

Uh, just last year he pitched the wild card game for the Royals as well as Game 1 of the ALCS and WS. Was this your ace in the hole?

No, it's your ace in the hole which is what's so hilarious to me. Hyun-Jin Ryu had better stats last year than James Shields. Ryu was worth more WAR in 70 less innings. Being the ace of the 2014 Royals was like being the World's Tallest Midget.

And you seem to be forgetting that he was terrible in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are terrible.

And Shields is pitching worse this year than he did last year. Or any other year. And you want to trade for him.

 

[duke1861]

No, it's your ace in the hole which is what's so hilarious to me. Hyun-Jin Ryu had better stats last year than James Shields. Ryu was worth more WAR in 70 less innings. Being the ace of the 2014 Royals was like being the World's Tallest Midget.

And you seem to be forgetting that he was terrible in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are terrible.

And Shields is pitching worse this year than he did last year. Or any other year. And you want to trade for him.

Ross and Benoit would be awesome but the Fradres would try to get the farm from us.

 

[Smed55]

Who was he the ace for?

I swear Villian, you just like to argue with people! You always have to be right! Whether you want to acknowledge it or not Sheilds was the Ace for Kansas City,He is the ace for SD, you can also argue that while not as good as the Kershaw/Grienke 1-2 punch, Price/Sheilds was a pretty good 1-2 punch for a few years with Tampa Bay. Now before you jump in here with all your Sabr stats, I'll already say it, obviously Price is better than him now, but when you lead your team in innings pitched, that tells me that you are their number 1 if not 1A guy and Shields lead TB twice in innings pitched while Price was there. Price also dropped off quite a bit the year Shields left.

If I can have Price or Shields, of course I'd take Price, but get off Yiur kick that Shields sucks, I'm sure almost any team would love to have him as their 3-4 guy!

 

[Villain]

Tyson Ross and Andrew Cashner are both better than James Shields.

David Price / James Shields never compared favorably with the Grienke / Kershaw combo.

 

[Smed55]

No, it's your ace in the hole which is what's so hilarious to me. Hyun-Jin Ryu had better stats last year than James Shields. Ryu was worth more WAR in 70 less innings. Being the ace of the 2014 Royals was like being the World's Tallest Midget.

And you seem to be forgetting that he was terrible in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are terrible.


And Shields is pitching worse this year than he did last year. Or any other year. And you want to trade for him.

Wrong again Villian! Outlaw mentioned his playoff stats, he also mentioned Kershaws playoff stats! And your point there is what?

I knew you would throw your precious metric stats in there. If we got Sheilds(and this is the point you are not getting FOR THE RIGHT PRICE) I said he would be our number 4 guy behind RYU next year, Sheilds is more than serviceable for us this year. If you want to use your precious stats, wouldn't Sheilds benefit from having the Dodger offense behind him and their defense?

My God everyone is wrong about Shields including major league front offices, Sheilds has been a winner everywhere he has gone, so you know where you can put those "what if" stats, if you can move your head out of your ass first!

 

[Smed55]

Tyson Ross and Andrew Cashner are both better than James Shields.

David Price / James Shields never compared favorably with the Grienke / Kershaw combo.

If they are so much better, than why aren't they proving it? Oh wait my bad they probably are according to their metrics!

I said Kershaw/Greinke are obviously better, but don't try and say that Price/Sheilds,Wasn't a good 1-2 punch that alot of teams would have loved to have.

Why is it, you are the only one that is saying Shields sucks, oh that's right because you said so, and your take is the right take,oh and because the metrics say so!

 

[Smed55]

No, it's your ace in the hole which is what's so hilarious to me. Hyun-Jin Ryu had better stats last year than James Shields. Ryu was worth more WAR in 70 less innings. Being the ace of the 2014 Royals was like being the World's Tallest Midget.

And you seem to be forgetting that he was terrible in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are terrible.

And Shields is pitching worse this year than he did last year. Or any other year. And you want to trade for him.

Could your comments and reasoning be any dumber? Who gives a shit if Ryu's WAR was better than Sheilds, if the "worlds tallest midget" gets us to the WS than let's sign him up! Did Ryu's precious WAR stats get us their? But I guess Sheilds inferior War helped get Kansas City there, and again what was your point about their WAR numbers?

Take a deep breath, take a step back, and look at things other than metrics, you know like baseball things that are factual!

 

[Villain]

You know what, I had a longer post about how stupid this whole intangible "winner" thing is, and how there's about a gajillion examples of why it's stupid, but I don't even want to try to change your guys' minds. If you want to buy into those kinds of Plaschke-type narratives, have at it and have fun. Don't forget to wipe George Will's butt when your done.

Anyways, I'll boil down to a better point. WHY DON'T YOU WANT COLE HAMELS?! He compares better than James Shields in literally every way. Just go down the list:

*Playoff Success? He was the NLCS and WS MVP in 2008. Went to the WS again in 2009.
*More than just a rental? Yep. Both under team control until 2019. Hamels only costs $1.5mil more per year.
*Wait, they're both in the 30s! Hamels is 2 years younger than Shields.
*You said these older guys are getting worse! Yeah, that's true. I'm not crazy about the end of Hamels' deal. That's why he's not my first choice. But, even I can't deny that he's actually GAINED a few ticks on the gun this year!

I can't think of a single thing that James Shields would bring to the Dodgers that Cole Hamels doesn't also bring, but in a better way. Even his wife is hotter!

 

[Smed55]

You know what, I had a longer post about how stupid this whole intangible "winner" thing is, and how there's about a gajillion examples of why it's stupid, but I don't even want to try to change your guys' minds. If you want to buy into those kinds of Plaschke-type narratives, have at it and have fun. Don't forget to wipe George Will's butt when your done.

Anyways, I'll boil down to a better point. WHY DON'T YOU WANT COLE HAMELS?! He compares better than James Shields in literally

every way. Just go down the list:

*Playoff Success? He was the NLCS and WS MVP in 2008. Went to the WS again in 2009.
*More than just a rental? Yep. Both under team control until 2019. Hamels only costs $1.5mil more per year.
*Wait, they're both in the 30s! Hamels is 2 years younger than Shields.
*You said these older guys are getting worse! Yeah, that's true. I'm not crazy about the end of Hamels' deal. That's why he's

not my first choice. But, even I can't deny that he's actually GAINED a few ticks on the gun this year!

I can't think of a single thing that James Shields would bring to the Dodgers that Cole Hamels doesn't also bring, but in a better way. Even his wife is hotter![/QUOTE



You just don't get it, do you?

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with Hamels, I'd take him, the conversation was about Shields though, and then you went off on a rant about how awful he is, WHICH ISN'T TRUE! And if you want to rip Shields about not being an ace, is Hamels? Hamels has always had a lot of potential, but has never been that great! Would I take him, absolutely, he would make a good 3-4 guy, just like Shields would! Get over yourself man!

 

[Smed55]

Also Villian, you are all about strikeouts and velocity, why does Shields have more strikeouts this year in less innings than Hamels, yet you think Hamels is soooooo much better, maybe because its not about velocity, maybe its about being able to make quality pitches, you and your strikeout theory are overrated, it doesnt really matter how you get guys out, as long as you are getting guys out! Both would be upgrades to what we have now! But go ahead and bash Shields, because you are right he sucks!

 

[Villain]

I don't think Shields is what the Dodgers need. As I've said many times, everything about him is trending in the wrong direction. Home runs increasing (in San Diego of all places! Are you kidding me!), velocity decreasing. I vote no a hundred times.

 

[Smed55]

I don't think Shields is what the Dodgers need. As I've said many times, everything about him is trending in the wrong direction. Home runs increasing (in San Diego of all places! Are you kidding me!), velocity decreasing. I vote no a hundred times.

That's fine if you vote no, and don't want Shields, but don't try to come on here and say his velocity is down, yet he has more strikeouts in less innings than Hamels, but you want Hamels! We've already covered the 10 HR's he's given up in Petco, and only 17 total earned runs, that means he isn't giving up the 2 or 3 run HR. Good pitchers can get away with giving up solo HR's, it's the HR's with men on base that will put your team in a hole, which he ISN'T doing.

The only reasons you don't want him is based on your metric stats, you know the only stats you judge to be relavent!

 

[Villain]

That's fine if you vote no, and don't want Shields, but don't try to come on here and say his velocity is down, yet he has more strikeouts in less innings than Hamels, but you want Hamels! We've already covered the 10 HR's he's given up in Petco, and only 17 total earned runs, that means he isn't giving up the 2 or 3 run HR. Good pitchers can get away with giving up solo HR's, it's the HR's with men on base that will put your team in a hole, which he ISN'T doing.

The only reasons you don't want him is based on your metric stats, you know the only stats you judge to be relavent!

His velocity is down. "Avoiding the big home run" is circumstantial, that's not an acquired skill. Just like RBIs aren't an acquired skill. Throw that one out the window right now.

Yes, Shields is doing a great down getting strikeouts. In fact, this is the highest K% he's had for his career - do you really expect it to stay this high for the whole season? For the whole duration of his contract? He's also walking batters are the highest rate for his career.

Shields also has a FIP- and ERA- that are among the worst in his career - the only years this bad were 2010 and his rookie season. In 2010, Shields gave up the most hits, home runs, and earned runs in all of baseball. That's the only season that's been arguably worse than this one. I don't understand how you can look at a guy like Shields and not see "danger" written all over him. He's getting older and he's getting worse. All the evidence is there!

Now, lets compare him to Cole Hamels. He's 2 years younger. He's a proven playoff success (not as important to me, but I know it matters to you guys).

Yes, Shields has the better K% than Hamels... By all of 1.4%! The only difference is that this isn't some outrageously high year for Hamels. He's been around this rate for his whole career. It's slightly higher than career average, but but as much of an anomoly as Shields. For that reason, I buy into Hamel's K% being more sustainable for the duration of his contract than Shields.

As a matter of fact, if you run down the line of stats for Hamels, you'll see that the numbers he's putting up this year are right about the point that they'd been for his entire career. That's good, because it means you're getting a known commodity. His velocity isn't waning. He's not trending as sharply towards the retirement home like Shields is.

==============

You can not make a case that Shields is a better pitcher than Hamels. Even the contracts are practically the same. The only reason to get Shields instead of Hamels is if the Padres want to give the Dodgers an outrageously good deal for him, and the Phillies refuse to budge on demanding blue-chip prospects. That's the only reason.

Hamels is better the Shields. Period.

 

[Smed55]

His velocity is down. "Avoiding the big home run" is circumstantial, that's not an acquired skill. Just like RBIs aren't an acquired skill. Throw that one out the window right now.

Yes, Shields is doing a great down getting strikeouts. In fact, this is the highest K% he's had for his career - do you really expect it to stay this high for the whole season? For the whole duration of his contract? He's also walking batters are the highest rate for his career.

Shields also has a FIP- and ERA- that are among the worst in his career - the only years this bad were 2010 and his rookie season. In 2010, Shields gave up the most hits, home runs, and earned runs in all of baseball. That's the only season that's been arguably worse than this one. I don't understand how you can look at a guy like Shields and not see "danger" written all over him. He's getting older and he's getting worse. All the evidence is there!

Now, lets compare him to Cole Hamels. He's 2 years younger. He's a proven playoff success (not as important to me, but I know it matters to you guys).


Yes, Shields has the better K% than Hamels... By all of 1.4%! The only difference is that this isn't some outrageously high year for Hamels. He's been around this rate for his whole career. It's slightly higher than career average, but but as much of an anomoly as Shields. For that reason, I buy into Hamel's K% being more sustainable for the duration of his contract than Shields.

As a matter of fact, if you run down the line of stats for Hamels, you'll see that the numbers he's putting up this year are right about the point that they'd been for his entire career. That's good, because it means you're getting a known commodity. His velocity isn't waning. He's not trending as sharply towards the retirement home like Shields is.
==============

You can not make a case that Shields is a better pitcher than Hamels. Even the contracts are practically the same. The only reason to get Shields instead of Hamels is if the Padres want to give the Dodgers an outrageously good deal for him, and the Phillies refuse to budge on demanding blue-chip prospects. That's the only reason.

Hamels is better the Shields. Period.

Hmmmm, giving up HR's are circumstantial, really? With no one on base you can afford to pitch a guy differently than with runners on, so giving up solo HR's is not as big of an issue.

And you just aren't getting the point of any of this are you? I don't think anyone said Sheilds was better than Hamels, ya I'd rather have Hamels, but the poster made a simple comment about possibly acquiring Sheilds, you said he sucks, and that's not true, he's a proven winner, and has posted good numbers. His numbers this year aren't bad, most of us would take him as our number 3 guy this year, and he would be our number 4 guy once RYu comes back next year! I also said if the "price was right"
Say what you want about him, but this so called" evidence is there" that he's getting worse, just isn't true.

 

[Villain]

You need to learn how to quote and reply like a grown-up.

 

[Smed55]

You need to learn how to quote and reply like a grown-up.

There you go again, I do it the same way every time asswipe, sometimes it goes where it's suppose to,sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes my iPad is all over the place, excuse me! But since that's really the only thing you can legitimately criticize, go for it, because your other statements usually don't have any credibility!

 

[Villain]

There you go again, I do it the same way every time asswipe, sometimes it goes where it's suppose to,sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes my iPad is all over the place, excuse me! But since that's really the only thing you can legitimately criticize, go for it, because your other statements usually don't have any credibility!

You doing it wrong every time doesn't make you look any less incompetent. Figure it out, stop blaming technology because you're too old and your fingers are too fat.