The 2015 Starting Rotation - 2 Cy Young Winners and a Bunch of Injuries

[Villain]

I wouldn't mind getting a Shields or Gallardo level-pitcher. The Dodgers seem reluctant to move their most valuable pieces anyway, which isn't a problem with me.

Hell no, especially with Shields.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Hell no, especially with Shields.

I've always liked Shields and Gallardo and if the Pads are willing to pay some of that contract down then I don't see an issue with it. I don't think the Dodgers need another top-end starter, definitely don't need a rental. I just don't see the Dodgers willing to move a lot of the pieces that other teams around the league might value, I'd be happy with a B-level starter who'd come at a cheaper price than the top-end guys, personally.

I doubt a lot of teams are dying to get Austin Barnes.

 

[Smed55]

I've always liked Shields and Gallardo and if the Pads are willing to pay some of that contract down then I don't see an issue with it. I don't think the Dodgers need another top-end starter, definitely don't need a rental. I just don't see the Dodgers willing to move a lot of the pieces that other teams around the league might value, I'd be happy with a B-level starter who'd come at a cheaper price than the top-end guys, personally.

I doubt a lot of teams are dying to get Austin Barnes.

I also don't see a problem with getting Sheilds for the right price, and next year when RYU comes back, Sheilds would be a really nice # 4 guy. I'd prefer to get Price, but I don't think that's going to happen, I'd also prefer Cueto, that might happen, but if we get neither, Sheilds would be a good 3 or 4 guy!
According to Sabr stats Sheilds would be a good fit for Dodger stadium,

 

[Villain]

I've always liked Shields and Gallardo and if the Pads are willing to pay some of that contract down then I don't see an issue with it. I don't think the Dodgers need another top-end starter, definitely don't need a rental. I just don't see the Dodgers willing to move a lot of the pieces that other teams around the league might value, I'd be happy with a B-level starter who'd come at a cheaper price than the top-end guys, personally.

1. Dodgers don't need to save money. Having the Padres pick up some of the tab would mean that they'd expect more in terms of prospects from the Dodgers. No thanks.
2. Shields has a FIP worse that Bolsinger and Anderson.
3. He's only going to get worse as he gets older.

I doubt a lot of teams are dying to get Austin Barnes.

Are you serious?

 

[Villain]

The whole point of not trading for a B-Level starter is that the Dodgers already have plenty of those (Wieland, Lee, Bolsinger, Frias, et al). Adding a B-Level starter doesn't help the Dodgers in the playoffs.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

The whole point of not trading for a B-Level starter is that the Dodgers already have plenty of those (Wieland, Lee, Bolsinger, Frias, et al). Adding a B-Level starter doesn't help the Dodgers in the playoffs.

I wouldn't put James Shields on the same level as Bolsinger or Frias. His K:BB ratio isn't bad, even though his stats aren't up to his standards this year and there has been a drop in velocity, he's still a proven winner in the playoffs. Stats are incredibly useful, yes, but not the end all be all.

Tim Hudson was the missing piece for the Giants last year and he was far from an Ace. I think Shields would be the perfect #3 for the playoffs.

Are you serious?

You tried to provide a mock trade earlier and even you admitted that no GM would willing take that. You have any trade ideas that teams would jump on? There will be teams more desperate than the Dodgers and willing to give up more for those rentals.

We aren't trading Urias or Seager, I doubt they will give up Puig or Ethier, I don't see what we have to offer that other teams are coveting so much for their Aces. Detroit and Philly would be asking for a king's ransom for Hamels and Price, and the Dodgers are rightfully not willing to pay that.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I would be glad to admit that I was wrong if the Dodgers manage to get one of those guys but I seriously doubt anyone on your list ends up on the team.

 

[Villain]

I wouldn't put James Shields on the same level as Bolsinger or Frias. His K:BB ratio isn't bad, even though his stats aren't up to his standards this year and there has been a drop in velocity, he's still a proven winner in the playoffs. Stats are incredibly useful, yes, but not the end all be all.

Tim Hudson was the missing piece for the Giants last year and he was far from an Ace. I think Shields would be the perfect #3 for the playoffs.

Shields is 33. Under contract for another 4 years. His home run numbers have gotten WORSE in PETCO. No thanks x 100. You can hope for him all you want, but he's got bust written all over his face.

You tried to provide a mock trade earlier and even you admitted that no GM would willing take that. You have any trade ideas that teams would jump on? There will be teams more desperate than the Dodgers and willing to give up more for those rentals.

We aren't trading Urias or Seager, I doubt they will give up Puig or Ethier, I don't see what we have to offer that other teams are coveting so much for their Aces. Detroit and Philly would be asking for a king's ransom for Hamels and Price, and the Dodgers are rightfully not willing to pay that.

Joking about trading Ethier for anything of value and understanding that Austin Barnes has excellent trade value are two completely different things. And all this talk about trading Puig is silly.

None of Cueto, Price, or Hamels are worth trading Seager or Urias. The Dodgers have plenty of decent prospects that any team should be interested in, what are you talking about?

I would be glad to admit that I was wrong if the Dodgers manage to get one of those guys but I seriously doubt anyone on your list ends up on the team.

Well, that's fine.

 

[Smed55]

Shields is 33. Under contract for another 4 years. His home run numbers have gotten WORSE in PETCO. No thanks x 100. You can hope for him all you want, but he's got bust written all over his face.


I don't have a problem with the home run numbers, giving up 10 home runs and only 17 earned runs total tells me that he isn't giving up the "big" home run! Overall he has pitched well this year other than a couple of stretches! He is a proven winner in the past on some teams that weren't necessarily all that good!
A couple of bad months doesn't scream "bust".

Again he wouldn't be one of the top 2 pitchers on our team, maybe not even top 3, but he is a quality pitcher and I wouldn't compare him to a rookie like Bolsinger, or Frias!

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Shields is 33. Under contract for another 4 years. His home run numbers have gotten WORSE in PETCO. No thanks x 100. You can hope for him all you want, but he's got bust written all over his face.



Joking about trading Ethier for anything of value and understanding that Austin Barnes has excellent trade value are two completely different things. And all this talk about trading Puig is silly.

None of Cueto, Price, or Hamels are worth trading Seager or Urias. The Dodgers have plenty of decent prospects that any team should be interested in, what are you talking about?



Well, that's fine.

Regular season stats like that are a clear indicator of when a player's completely washed up, just ask Zito, Lincecum and Hudson and their World Series Rings. You're vastly overrating our 3-5 starters if you think they're B-level.

Then getting an ace should be pretty damn easy.

 

[Villain]

Regular season stats like that are a clear indicator of when a player's completely washed up, just ask Zito, Lincecum and Hudson and their World Series Rings. You're vastly overrating our 3-5 starters if you think they're B-level.

Then getting an ace should be pretty damn easy.

Yeah, that's some awesome logic right there. World Series Ring = Better pitcher!!! DUH!!!!! That's why every agrees that all those shitty Giants pitchers you listed are better than Felix Hernandez, David Price, Clayton Kershaw, Zack Grienke, Corey Kluber, etc. etc. etc.

By the way, Shields doesn't have a World Series Ring and his postseason stats are horrible.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Yeah, that's some awesome logic right there. World Series Ring = Better pitcher!!! DUH!!!!! That's why every agrees that all those shitty Giants pitchers you listed are better than Felix Hernandez, David Price, Clayton Kershaw, Zack Grienke, Corey Kluber, etc. etc. etc.

By the way, Shields doesn't have a World Series Ring and his postseason stats are horrible.

8-3 on a bad team, half a season removed from every GM and their momma wanting to sign him, 2.17 ERA in July. God he needs to just retire, such a bust. You are a really funny guy, Villain. I'll keep using the eye test and past accomplishments to rate pitchers, you can keep looking at stats and pretending like they tell you the whole story. You'd rather give the ball to Anderson/Frias/Bolsinger in the playoffs than James Shields.

You do know that Kershaw has similar stats in the playoffs right?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

And I never said those pitchers were better than anyone, just that they weren't washed up. You having difficulty with reading comprehension, Villain?

 

[Villain]

James Shields and his crappy contract are San Diego's problem. I wouldn't like to see them be LA's problem. He's not that good. He's only getting worse. I don't know why you don't see it as a problem that he's losing velocity. He's only getting older, that arm speed isn't going to magically come back. His problems are only going to get worse.

 

[Smed55]

James Shields and his crappy contract are San Diego's problem. I wouldn't like to see them be LA's problem. He's not that good. He's only getting worse. I don't know why you don't see it as a problem that he's losing velocity. He's only getting older, that arm speed isn't going to magically come back. His problems are only going to get worse.

As Outlaw said, " almost" everyone wanted him last year! Even good pitchers have off years, this is one year, and actually he is pitching pretty well, he had a couple bad stretches, overall he's been fine. And "if" the price us right, he would be a good 3 or 4 guy for us
Your logic is ridiculous, going by your standards, I guess since Pederson is in a 40+ game slump we should give up on him, after all he's only been getting worse!

 

[Villain]

As Outlaw said, " almost" everyone wanted him last year! Even good pitchers have off years, this is one year, and actually he is pitching pretty well, he had a couple bad stretches, overall he's been fine. And "if" the price us right, he would be a good 3 or 4 guy for us
Your logic is ridiculous, going by your standards, I guess since Pederson is in a 40+ game slump we should give up on him, after all he's only been getting worse!

Pretty much all of his years have been off years. He's been overrated for years.

And you know what... everyone used to want beanie babies, too. The whole point of SABR stats is to find the value where other people aren't looking - and to try to spot land mines before you step on them.

James Shields = land mine
Brett Anderson = gold mine

(relatively speaking)

 

[Villain]

Alright, so now Cueto and Kazmir are off the board. We're down to Hamels and Price as the obvious targets. Price might not even be available.

After that it starts to get ugly and/or nebulous. Ugly, as in Samardzija and Iwakuma scare the shit out of me. I just don't have that much faith in them. Nebulous, as in I have no idea what kind of surprises this Front Office is capable of. They were reportly going after the arms from Cleveland (that would be awesome), and who the hell knows what Billy Beane is capable of. He shocked me when he traded Josh Donaldson, so I wouldn't put it past him to do the same with Sonny Gray.

 

[Smed55]

Pretty much all of his years have been off years. He's been overrated for years.

And you know what... everyone used to want beanie babies, too. The whole point of SABR stats is to find the value where other people aren't looking - and to try to spot land mines before you step on them.

James Shields = land mine
Brett Anderson = gold mine

(relatively speaking)

Really? You're going to go there again! Real baseball people don't "just" look at your precious Sabr stats. Whether you want to believe it or not, Sheilds is a quality starter, the guy has proven that he is a winner!

 

[OutlawImmortal]

If you feel comfortable with Brett Anderson starting in the playoffs then I don't know what to say to you bud. Your SABR stats are making you believe these guys are better than they really are, they're serviceable in the regular season, and that's about it. James Shields has been there and done that in the playoffs, if he's not worthy of starting in the playoffs because of his stats then neither is Kershaw because his playoff stats are equally as bad.

You see where relying completely on stats can mess you up? If Bolsinger and Anderson are such gold mines then why are we even looking for another pitcher? Should be good enough, right?

As Outlaw said, " almost" everyone wanted him last year! Even good pitchers have off years, this is one year, and actually he is pitching pretty well, he had a couple bad stretches, overall he's been fine. And "if" the price us right, he would be a good 3 or 4 guy for us
Your logic is ridiculous, going by your standards, I guess since Pederson is in a 40+ game slump we should give up on him, after all he's only been getting worse!

He's used to being the Ace, slide him down to #3 or #4 next year when Ryu comes back and I'd take him over almost every other team's #3/4 for sure.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Not that it's a good analogy in the first place but some beanie babies go for thousands of dollars.