Terrell Pryor likes cheese with his whine

[xBxtxDx]

Terrelle Pryor: 'Woodyard should get fined' - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

Ok BB, just so we get it out of the way before we argue over nothing, I agree 100% that this hit is clean. Woodyard is lowering his body and his right shoulder is the first part of his body to make contact against Pryor's left shoulder, clean and not helmet to helmet. The problem occurs because Trevathan has Pryor wrapped up and Pryor's body is starting to go down towards Woodyard as Woodyard makes contact, Woodyard's helmet then makes contact with Pryor's. Sorry, but this is incidental contact and should not be a fine (though the NFL will probably disagree). Too bad, how sad Pryor, take your pathetic whine someplace else, we are not buying here.

 

[xBxtxDx]

Youtube of said hit so you can make your own decision:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POz-4XpwGxg]Pryor Gets smacked by Wesley Woodyard!! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Shanemansj13]

It was helmet to helmet no doubt. Is the rule, they get fined if there was intent on the hit or just helmet to helmet. It wasn't intentional IMO...just a guy making a play and it happened to be helmet to helmet.

 

[JDM]

His brain must still be scrambled.

 

[cdumler7]

To me it looks like Woodyard is making a very good hit. He is trying to get his helmet out in front of Pryor not using it to drive through him. He might have been a little high coming in but come on this is the NFL and these guys are flying around so there is going to be some major hitting.

Pryor this whole week has sounded like a whiny little punk. He almost makes it sound like the Concussion is why they lost this game instead of the fact that for 3 quarters he was pretty much worthless in this game and it wasn't until the Broncos switched to a deep zone coverage in the secondary that he was actually able to do anything.

I honestly did think he got hit that hard in the head. He more grazes the side of Woodyard's helmet than actual head on collision. His facemask actually goes into the side of Woodyard which causes his head to jerk but it was not like Woodyard was going for a head hit.

Well I guess this secures it of already do not like this Pryor kid. He hasn't passed Rivers yet but more complaining like this and he is well on his way.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Terrelle Pryor: 'Woodyard should get fined' - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

Ok BB, just so we get it out of the way before we argue over nothing, I agree 100% that this hit is clean. Woodyard is lowering his body and his right shoulder is the first part of his body to make contact against Pryor's left shoulder, clean and not helmet to helmet. The problem occurs because Trevathan has Pryor wrapped up and Pryor's body is starting to go down towards Woodyard as Woodyard makes contact, Woodyard's helmet then makes contact with Pryor's. Sorry, but this is incidental contact and should not be a fine (though the NFL will probably disagree). Too bad, how sad Pryor, take your pathetic whine someplace else, we are not buying here.

The Raiders HC even says it was a legal hit.

If thr NFL were going to act on this, they most certainly would have by now.

 

[Morpheus]

It was helmet to helmet no doubt. Is the rule, they get fined if there was intent on the hit or just helmet to helmet. It wasn't intentional IMO...just a guy making a play and it happened to be helmet to helmet.

You need to learn the rules. A helmet to helmet hit is legal in the tackle box if the player is rushing and is the ball carrier. Dennis Allen even agreed.

Not a sack on a pass play, not a defenseless WR, not outside the tackle box one on one.

Pryor is rushing the football and lowers his helmet to attack the line of scrimmage in the tackle box on a running play.

No fine should be levied. If there is, I bet you the NFLPA appeals and they should win.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

I guess he thought he should get a free and clear running lane

 

[xBxtxDx]

It was helmet to helmet no doubt. Is the rule, they get fined if there was intent on the hit or just helmet to helmet. It wasn't intentional IMO...just a guy making a play and it happened to be helmet to helmet.

That would be the short and lazy answer and it would be wrong. It all depends on where the helmet to helmet occured, who it was against, and a number of other circumstances.

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf
NFL announces rule changes for 2013 season - SBNation.com

The first link is to the the NFL rules prior to 2013 and the below one is to the 2013 rule changes. Note that nowhere in there does it say anything about "All helmet to helmet hits being illegal and fineable".

The rules prior to 2013 do not apply because Pryor is outside of the passer area and continuing as a runner. Nor is he defenseless even though Trevathan is starting a tackle because he is continuing with forward motion. So, neither of these applies and we have to move to the new crown of the helmet rule.

Note, the crown of the helmet rule says that both tacklers or runners are prohibited from initiating contact with the crown of their helmet outside the tackle box and it continues to say the following components of an illegal hit are:
1. The player must line up his opponent (Yes Woodyard does this, not sure how you tackle someone without lining them up, though I may be missing this definition).
2. The player must lower his head (Again, yes Woodyard does lower his head, cannot argue that, but he lowers it and moves it to the the left away from Pryor's body, as he should).
3. The player must deliver a forcible blow with his crown to any part of the opposing player's body. (Again, Woodyard does this, the crown comes in contact with Pryor's facemask, cannot really argue this either).

However, in saying all of that, you must read 2 other things from this rule. First of all, Tacklers and runners are prohibited from "initiating", Woodyard did not "initiate" contact with the crown, as stated before, he initiated with his right shoulder to Pryor's left shoulder. Second, the rule further states that if both players are moving at an angle or haven't lined up their opponent yet, then no foul will be assessed on the play. Woodyard and Pryor are moving at an angle from each other.

So, in reading all of that, no, Woodyard does not deserve to be fined and the play should not be called as a personal foul, which it was not.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Just looked like bad luck to me, if he really wanted to helmet to helmet he probably could have killed Pryor. It would have been just another tackle if the other guy doesn't have him wrapped up, but that's the bad luck part of it.

About Pryor whining, wouldn't you be a little bitter if you got KO'd on MNF? Lol

 

[xBxtxDx]

Just looked like bad luck to me, if he really wanted to helmet to helmet he probably could have killed Pryor. It would have been just another tackle if the other guy doesn't have him wrapped up, but that's the bad luck part of it.

About Pryor whining, wouldn't you be a little bitter if you got KO'd on MNF? Lol

That is just it, watching that play over and over again, it just does not seem like Pryor really got his bell rung. Yes, there is contact, but from watching it, I would have assumed Pryor had a neck injury as his head is jerked to the side (Woodyard's helmet hits the facemask).

 

[Morpheus]

Just looked like bad luck to me, if he really wanted to helmet to helmet he probably could have killed Pryor. It would have been just another tackle if the other guy doesn't have him wrapped up, but that's the bad luck part of it.

About Pryor whining, wouldn't you be a little bitter if you got KO'd on MNF? Lol

LOL, good point.

 

[David_son]

I was helmet to helmet and at full speed it looks like he came running in with his head down.

 

[xBxtxDx]

I was helmet to helmet and at full speed it looks like he came running in with his head down.

Yes, I do believe you are correct that you were helmet to helmet, what that means, I do not want to know, but I am not going to look you in the eye and am backing away slowly.

 

[David_son]

Yes, I do believe you are correct that you were helmet to helmet, what that means, I do not want to know, but I am not going to look you in the eye and am backing away slowly.

Sorry typo trying to get my post count up between jobs at work.

 

[xBxtxDx]

Sorry typo trying to get my post count up between jobs at work.

LOL, I know and yes, I do agree, it is helmet to helmet, but is it fineable? By my interpretation of the rules, close, but no.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

That is just it, watching that play over and over again, it just does not seem like Pryor really got his bell rung. Yes, there is contact, but from watching it, I would have assumed Pryor had a neck injury as his head is jerked to the side (Woodyard's helmet hits the facemask).

Woodyard came at him at what looked like full speed, and Pryor was defenseless because he couldn't get out of the way or put his arms up. He was basically stopped in motion by the first defender, it did look like some of the force hit his facemask but if your head gets shaken up enough I'm pretty sure you could get a concussion (I'm no doctor though). It was probably a minor concussion since he was apparently answering the coaches' questions.

But the NFLPA is looking into this case, they are wondering why Pryor was allowed to stay in the game. I'm questioning the play call myself, we're getting dominated but hey, why don't we run Pryor right into a blitz?

 

[David_son]

Woodyard came at him at what looked like full speed, and Pryor was defenseless because he couldn't get out of the way or put his arms up. He was basically stopped in motion by the first defender, it did look like some of the force hit his facemask but if your head gets shaken up enough I'm pretty sure you could get a concussion (I'm no doctor though). It was probably a minor concussion since he was apparently answering the coaches' questions.

But the NFLPA is looking into this case, they are wondering why Pryor was allowed to stay in the game. I'm questioning the play call myself, we're getting dominated but hey, why don't we run Pryor right into a blitz?

Woodyard also had his head down the entire time he had no idea where he was going him. Didnt look up the entire time. . Also they protect QBs even incidental contact get get a fine.

 

[xBxtxDx]

Woodyard came at him at what looked like full speed, and Pryor was defenseless because he couldn't get out of the way or put his arms up. He was basically stopped in motion by the first defender, it did look like some of the force hit his facemask but if your head gets shaken up enough I'm pretty sure you could get a concussion (I'm no doctor though). It was probably a minor concussion since he was apparently answering the coaches' questions.

But the NFLPA is looking into this case, they are wondering why Pryor was allowed to stay in the game. I'm questioning the play call myself, we're getting dominated but hey, why don't we run Pryor right into a blitz?

According to the NFL a defenseless player is defined as the following:
a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to
protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or
warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5) A player on the ground at the end of a play;
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return;
(7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession, and
(8) A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and
approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.

Pryor's forward progress had not been stopped prior to the hit though and therefore he cannot be defined as defenseless IAW the NFL rules (the above is taken directly from the rules as posted by NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League. Now, I have no doubt that a fine will be issued to Woodyard as the NFL has generally sided on the cautious or greedy side (where the f does fine money go anyway?) in almost every case. I am just saying that technically the hit was perfectly legal contrary to what Pryor is saying, it is not a dirty hit and should not be fined.

Believe me, I am very against helmet to helmet hits and have argued incessantly against them. I just do not see it with this one based on the rules. As far as I am concerned, players today are taught to often to tackle incorrectly, do not wrap up, and use the helmet as a weapon or means of tackling an opposing player. It is b/s.

 

[xBxtxDx]

Woodyard also had his head down the entire time he had no idea where he was going him. Didnt look up the entire time. . Also they protect QBs even incidental contact get get a fine.

Does not matter in the new crown rule as the two players are at an angle to one another. Also, that would be the correct way to tackle, head down and to the side, arms around the runner, driving through them. The hit occurs because Pryor is also lowering his body position in what looks like possibly a cut (/shrug), if Pryor's body position is normal, Woodyard's head comes nowhere close to Pryor's and is exactly where it should be for the tackle(disclaimer: no I am not blaming Pryor), off to the side and in the middle of Pryor's chest.