Sykora to attend camp?

[Nasty_Magician]

Yea I'm not arguing plus or minus for forwards, I'm not bashing Kovy, I love him, but to say he doesn't have some costly turnovers is ridiculous. It's the risk/reward you take with a player like Kovy.

 

[DevilishWon]

Elias and Sykora net the Devils goals in the 2-1 win. Strong showings from Larsson (1a) and goalie Keith Kincaid (10 saves).

Sykie & Elias...just like the old days. Strong job by Larsson!

 

[nj_cup]

I'm pretty sure if I wanted to I could find just as many that weren't his fault. One of the reasons why +/- is stupid. How someone can get blame. Or credit when they have squat to do with a play. Sorry bro just doesn't jive with me

 

[nj_cup]

Sykora is going to get a contract. If its good or not I dunno

 

[nj_cup]

You know its funny too because all those videos (which I didn't watch) but I wonder why can't the defended stop the attack? Why can't the greatest Goalie in the world stop the attack? Do u mean to tell me that in every turnover that counts towards a goal is 100% on forward? In this case kovalchuk? Seems like a lot of wasted money for defense and a Goalie if we cant expect them to make a save or stop an attack.


Another thing I don't get about +/- how can you count one type of goal and not others? If u list all of the goals kovalchuk was out on the power play 9 goals and 12 assists he is really only a -5 on the year. But I guess those goals (that he was 100% directly responsible for) don't count? I wonder how many other powerplay goals he was on the ice for and didn't get a point so I can't really estimate his true +/-. I would go as far to say he was probably a + on the year....meaning he was on the ice for more goals scored then against.


Sorry to shoot down your stat

 

[MCDevils]

You know its funny too because all those videos (which I didn't watch) but I wonder why can't the defended stop the attack? Why can't the greatest Goalie in the world stop the attack? Do u mean to tell me that in every turnover that counts towards a goal is 100% on forward? In this case kovalchuk? Seems like a lot of wasted money for defense and a Goalie if we cant expect them to make a save or stop an attack.


Another thing I don't get about +/- how can you count one type of goal and not others? If u list all of the goals kovalchuk was out on the power play 9 goals and 12 assists he is really only a -5 on the year. But I guess those goals (that he was 100% directly responsible for) don't count? I wonder how many other powerplay goals he was on the ice for and didn't get a point so I can't really estimate his true +/-. I would go as far to say he was probably a + on the year....meaning he was on the ice for more goals scored then against.


Sorry to shoot down your stat

I'm trying to point out that goal differential is how you win games, and somehow, Kovy in a large sample size, is on the ice for almost twice as many as he scores at even strength. Why isn't it the same thing for Elias? Because Kovy refuses to play defense, refuses to play the game in a manner that's going to win. I don't get how you could have grown up cheering for this team and not realize that Kovy pretending he's at the icecapades isn't going to win us anything. I respect guys with insane all world skating and deking ability. Datsyuk and Crosby have to be the two most dominant players in the game ATM and they combine those traits with dominating two way play.

Do you really think we can win a championship if Kovy is being scored on more than he can score while he's on the ice. Now, I get your point about how a lot of times it's the defenseman's fault, BUT if that were the case, all the other forwards would have an equally dismal +/-. Somehow Elias is only a -4 over the course of the season. So does that mean that somehow Elias got extremely lucky over an 82 game season? You could blame the D if they were both -25 and on separate lines, but they pretty much weren't last year.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I really don't think it's a problem to demand a guy play in all facets if he's getting paid 100M.

 

[nj_cup]

You keep saying even strength but the whole game isn't played even strength. As I pointed out if u count the goals on the pp I believe he is a + player. Sure elias is a better defensive player and that probably helps his +/-. And yeah I think we have all seen what he can do for us last hear. Without kovalchuk last year the devils don't even sniff the playoffs. So yeah I'm ok with some turnover and hope that the defense or the greatest goalie of all time can bail him out.

 

[MCDevils]

You keep saying even strength but the whole game isn't played even strength. As I pointed out if u count the goals on the pp I believe he is a + player. Sure elias is a better defensive player and that probably helps his +/-. And yeah I think we have all seen what he can do for us last hear. Without kovalchuk last year the devils don't even sniff the playoffs. So yeah I'm ok with some turnover and hope that the defense or the greatest goalie of all time can bail him out.

If you counted every single PP point Kovy had he'd still be a minus. By your logic if Kovy doesn't owe the defense his support, do they need to pass him the puck. Sorry, but your argument against kovy needing to play 200 ft has no legs to stand on.

Also, Kovy plays more than 4x as much at ES than on the PP. Are we not supposed to put him on the ice, because when he's there at 5 v 5 he's hurting our chances of winning. And again you say the defense and goalie should bail him out, but somehow they always do that more frequently for other players in the long run.

 

[nj_cup]

Those pp points are the only points he was surely on the ice. I'm sure he was on the ice for more pp goals then the ones he got stats for. Thus making him a plus.

U think one way I think another. U posted Those videos I'm sure there are just as many plays where he wasn't even responsible and yet got a minus just for being on the ice.


Or how bout if Andy Greene starts a rush goes off on a change and larrson comes on devils score a goal....larrson gets the plus how is that fair?

 

[MCDevils]

Those pp points are the only points he was surely on the ice. I'm sure he was on the ice for more pp goals then the ones he got stats for. Thus making him a plus.

U think one way I think another. U posted Those videos I'm sure there are just as many plays where he wasn't even responsible and yet got a minus just for being on the ice.


Or how bout if Andy Greene starts a rush goes off on a change and larrson comes on devils score a goal....larrson gets the plus how is that fair?

You are aware that a single example doesn't disprove a large sample size?

Now that you mention it. Since I was looking at every Devils goal against for the first couple months. I would say there were less than 3 examples where Kovy was clearly on the ice and not involved with the goal against.

 

[MCDevils]

If you want to totally ignore +/- we can debate Corsi:

Corsi is the total number of missed shots, saved shots, goalposts, crossbars and goals directed at the opposition's net while a player was on the ice ... minus the same at his own end of the rink. Corrected for ice time.

That's as pure a measurement of the Devils offensive chances vs their opponents as you can get.

 

[nj_cup]

No thanks I don't need numbers to tell me what my eyes can see. That is kovalchuk is needed on this team.

 

[MCDevils]

No thanks I don't need numbers to tell me what my eyes can see. That is kovalchuk is needed on this team.

I agree. He needs to play both ways though.