Surgery List

[lasgop8]

so because my facts are about people that you can realistically compare jvr to rather than the rare standouts, my facts are irrelevant?

not every 2nd overall pick is able to step on to the ice right away and make a difference.. there have been quite a few lately, but the normal progression of a player is not to step in and dominate the league right away, it takes time.. if you dont think it should take any time for a kid that's used to playing college and high school hockey to dominate the NHL, that's your perrogative.. i gave you a bunch of names that show that's, at the very least, not ALWAYS true

I dont know if you know this AWAZ but comparisons are not facts they are what if's and maybe's just like JVR's ability

 

[awaz]

I dont know if you know this AWAZ but comparisons are not facts they are what if's and maybe's just like JVR's ability

ok well then why should jvr be dominating the league? what makes you say that? because he was drafted #2, ok, so why should #2 picks be dominating the league? because others have?

right, so by comparisons, which as you stated are not facts, he should be dominating the league.

so now we've arrived at this:
1. JvR should be given time because by comparison it takes time to develop players
2. JvR should be dominating the league because by comparison, #2 picks dominate the league
3. Comparisons are not fact and dont mean shit, rendering statements 1 and 2 irrelevant
4. JvR is his own player and will be different than everyone else when it comes to development time

lawyered.

 

[lasgop8]

ok well then why should jvr be dominating the league? what makes you say that? because he was drafted #2, ok, so why should #2 picks be dominating the league? because others have?

right, so by comparisons, which as you stated are not facts, he should be dominating the league.

so now we've arrived at this:
1. JvR should be given time because by comparison it takes time to develop players
2. JvR should be dominating the league because by comparison, #2 picks dominate the league
3. Comparisons are not fact and dont mean shit, rendering statements 1 and 2 irrelevant
4. JvR is his own player and will be different than everyone else when it comes to development time

lawyered.

If your gonna answer your own questions with your own answer then be my guest and post with your self but if you want my answers to the questions above here they are

JVR should be dominating the league because he is 6'3 200 pounds and fast as a MFer and has good hands but thats just me you carry on answering your own questions.

So we arrived at this
JVR was drafted at number 2 five years ago and has done nothing in college or the pros except for a 4 game stretch in last years playoffs. he has done nothing to warrant a raise to 4 plus million and has certainly done nothing to not be traded for a player like schenn or another comparable defenseman.

 

[awaz]

If your gonna answer your own questions with your own answer then be my guest and post with your self but if you want my answers to the questions above here they are

JVR should be dominating the league because he is 6'3 200 pounds and fast as a MFer and has good hands but thats just me you carry on answering your own questions.

So we arrived at this
JVR was drafted at number 2 five years ago and has done nothing in college or the pros except for a 4 game stretch in last years playoffs. he has done nothing to warrant a raise to 4 plus million and has certainly done nothing to not be traded for a player like schenn or another comparable defenseman.

fast, big, good hands sounds a lot like potential to be a good hockey player to me.. so now you're saying he should be dominating because he has all this potential.. when early in the thread you were complaining that we kept saying he had potential.. which one is it? should he be dominating because he has the potential, or he doesn't have any potential and therefore its unrealistic to expect him to dominate?

and also, just to be a little bitch, what means a big, fast player with good hands should dominate the league? because others have. comparisons are all we have when it comes to player development, ruling them out is ridiculous.

 

[4thstreet]

the flyers pitfall has been not being patient with players.. sharp isn't the only one.. williams was let go early in his career, zubrus..pitkanen formed in to a top pair dman (albeit for carolina).. seidenberg is a force to be reckoned with on the backend.. [B]i think if bob gets traded he could be another.. the flyers do it over and over again.. if the value isn't there, i dont think you trade jvr.. everyone knocks the flyers for having very little homegrown talent, and this is why, fans go crazy on young players with potential when they dont reach that potential in the time frame the fan has laid out for them

A scenario that would piss me royally if it happened.I went on record some time ago as saying that the Bryz deal was stupid.Bobs played exceptionally well for a rookie and should have had an experienced netminder brought in for backup and to teach him .

 

[lasgop8]

fast, big, good hands sounds a lot like potential to be a good hockey player to me.. so now you're saying he should be dominating because he has all this potential.. when early in the thread you were complaining that we kept saying he had potential

Not saying that at all where do you get this stuff from. When your 18 and get drafted with those qualities thats potential when your 5 years removed from the draft the fact that your not dominating the league with those qualities makes you very tradeable. Stop making assumptions about what i'm saying please.

 

[lasgop8]

A scenario that would piss me royally if it happened.I went on record some time ago as saying that the Bryz deal was stupid.Bobs played exceptionally well for a rookie and should have had an experienced netminder brought in for backup and to teach him .

I would love if Bob came in here and played well and had a good older goalie to get insight from but he had a couple of chances already and he played well for some stretches and some he was really bad and when you havent won the cup in 30 plus years and havent really had a great goalie in all that time your on a short leash.

 

[awaz]

Not saying that at all where do you get this stuff from. When your 18 and get drafted with those qualities thats potential when your 5 years removed from the draft the fact that your not dominating the league with those qualities makes you very tradeable. Stop making assumptions about what i'm saying please.

i'm not making assumptions at all.. you're saying this stuff.. how does him being 23 instead of 18, with the same size, same speed, and same hands, drive down his potential to be a good/great hockey player?

 

[lasgop8]

i'm not making assumptions at all.. you're saying this stuff.. how does him being 23 instead of 18, with the same size, same speed, and same hands, drive down his potential to be a good/great hockey player?

If you dont know the answer to that question it is pointless to continue this.

 

[awaz]

If you dont know the answer to that question it is pointless to continue this.

why because he's had 2.5 seasons of not dominating the league? 2.5 seasons getting used to the players being his size, and his speed, and maybe having his hands? (you forced me to put words in your mouth this time, so dont jump down my throat if this isn't your reasoning)

i've pointed out too many other players that took 2.5+ seasons IN THE NHL to get comfortable, and now dominate the league.. if you choose not believe that that could happen with JvR, then we're done discussing it. I believe JvR can still develop in to the player we all hoped he would because he is still fast, he is still big, he still has great hands, and many NHL players have followed the exact same path he is on, if you dont, you dont, end of story. But I, and those who agree with me, are not out of their minds for believing so.. it's happened far too many times in the past for it to be a ridiculous belief

 

[lasgop8]

In a short time you'll be on here saying how right i was about this just how you have done in the past about being wrong about Pronger and your whole story about how Boucher could be our goalie and we could win a cup with him. I'll still be here so when you post it just make sure i get a mention.

 

[awaz]

In a short time you'll be on here saying how right i was about this just how you have done in the past about being wrong about Pronger and your whole story about how Boucher could be our goalie and we could win a cup with him. I'll still be here so when you post it just make sure i get a mention.

woah now, when have i ever said i was wrong about pronger? i still think he's horrible defensively and his contract was awful.. which is what i've been saying from day 1.. and what i've actually been right on in the only part that's not an opinion (his contract really does suck and everyone agrees now).. and my preseason prediction was correct, gustaffsson was more vital to the team this year than pronger.

and we never got the chance to see if boucher could lead us to a cup, the rest of the team folded too (and im pretty sure you're putting words in my mouth now there anyway, i believe i said boosh was a better option than bob at that point in the season, which, based on your beloved statistics, was 100% true)

and we'll see on JvR.. if you're right, i'll give you props, if you're wrong, i expect you to eat crow.. and there is timeline for it.. if he develops ever, here or on another team, you will have been wrong

 

[mall3013]

Lol. I hope you guys are getting work done today for your employer. Very entertaining arguments back and forth. I'm neutral on this JVR thing. Part of me wants him out, meanwhile I've seen this shit before where we have thrown the towel in on players who have become very good players on another team.

 

[awaz]

Lol. I hope you guys are getting work done today for your employer. Very entertaining arguments back and forth. I'm neutral on this JVR thing. Part of me wants him out, meanwhile I've seen this shit before where we have thrown the towel in on players who have become very good players on another team.

lol, i haven't been really.. but i haven't been really in 6 months haha.. its cool though, i accepted an offer at a different company today

edit: also, i didnt like what we gave up for pronger either, and i still dont

 

[mall3013]

lol, i haven't been really.. but i haven't been really in 6 months haha.. its cool though, i accepted an offer at a different company today

edit: also, i didnt like what we gave up for pronger either, and i still dont

Are you moving into the Raleigh/Durham area? NC is a great place.

 

[awaz]

Are you moving into the Raleigh/Durham area? NC is a great place.

yep.. probably on the eastern side, i'm gunna start looking around chapel hill i think

 

[mall3013]

yep.. probably on the eastern side, i'm gunna start looking around chapel hill i think

Shit, here we go with a new bandwagon Tar Heel fan. Lol

 

[awaz]

Shit, here we go with a new bandwagon Tar Heel fan. Lol

psh, ya right.. bleedin maroon and orange man, always will

it'll be just like the "old" days when i was a flyer fan in pittsburgh

 

[mall3013]

psh, ya right.. bleedin maroon and orange man, always will

it'll be just like the "old" days when i was a flyer fan in pittsburgh

Back in the day it probably wasn't bad. If you were a Flyer fan in Pitt today, look out. I learned this not long ago at the in-laws place. Lol