State of the Team

[LHG]

Well, .253/.412/.481 for a .893 OPS.

OPS is 100 points over his overall OPS. Keep it up Belt.

 

[1phlapdown]

We aren't this bad. The other teams aren't that good.

How's that working out for ya?

 

[calsnowskier]

The Cueto injury is being called a "mild flexor strain". Cain missed a couple months with thus a few years back. Reportedly, TJ is not a factor.

I am not certain I trust this "good news". Either way, that would appear to end Cueto's season (my words) and guarantee that he opts in. It also completely kills any value he has until next years trade deadline at the earliest.

 

[LHG]

The Cueto injury is being called a "mild flexor strain". Cain missed a couple months with thus a few years back. Reportedly, TJ is not a factor.

I am not certain I trust this "good news". Either way, that would appear to end Cueto's season (my words) and guarantee that he opts in. It also completely kills any value he has until next years trade deadline at the earliest.

Hopefully, the FO is right and that the team really does just need minor tweaking, are in contention and Cueto is pitching like he's capable come this time next year.

 

[SFGRTB]

Hopefully, the FO is right and that the team really does just need minor tweaking, are in contention and Cueto is pitching like he's capable come this time next year.

The front office has said countless times that they don't envision "minor tweaking", they expect a few bigger moves to be needed.

I'm almost 99% positive the front office is okay/for going through a rebuild, but ownership is totally against it. The Giants are typically really tight lipped about this stuff, so we'll probably never know, but what we've heard from the front office says that.

 

[VASFfan]

The front office has said countless times that they don't envision "minor tweaking", they expect a few bigger moves to be needed.

I'm almost 99% positive the front office is okay/for going through a rebuild, but ownership is totally against it. The Giants are typically really tight lipped about this stuff, so we'll probably never know, but what we've heard from the front office says that.

I sincerely hope Larry Baer, et al., are not that delusional, to believe that we can contend next year without virtually tearing the team apart. Pence is done. Span is Span (that's not a compliment). Belt continues to show that he will not be a reliable bat in the middle of the lineup. Panik is solid but what we're seeing now is probably all he will be. Third base is a black hole, with a second black hole orbiting nearby in left field. Our starting pitching is erratic (and that's being charitable), and our bullpen isn't much better. How do we shore that up so that contention is possible, or do we just cross our fingers and hope some people (like Cueto and Moore) return to form and we can slap some spackle on elsewhere to make it all hold together???

 

[SFGRTB]

I sincerely hope Larry Baer, et al., are not that delusional, to believe that we can contend next year without virtually tearing the team apart. Pence is done. Span is Span (that's not a compliment). Belt continues to show that he will not be a reliable bat in the middle of the lineup. Panik is solid but what we're seeing now is probably all he will be. Third base is a black hole, with a second black hole orbiting nearby in left field. Our starting pitching is erratic (and that's being charitable), and our bullpen isn't much better. How do we shore that up so that contention is possible, or do we just cross our fingers and hope some people (like Cueto and Moore) return to form and we can slap some spackle on elsewhere to make it all hold together???

If ownership is stubborn, as I believe they are, the team will have to make some dramatic roster and lineup changes in-house IMO, and it could work if everyone buys in.

I think it's pretty fair to say that Crawford, Belt, Cueto, Moore, Shark, and Melancon can bounce back to reasonable numbers (how much, as they all get older, who knows? But I think all of them aren't what they're showing now).

Dramatic change number 1:
It's not going to happen, but it would be nice to see Span and Pence platoon LF or RF. Span is basically a platoon guy at this point, and not a CFer. Pence has never had extreme R/L splits, but he's not an everyday player at this point. Again, not gonna happen, but I think less would be more with those guys. The defense would improve in CF by virtue of him not being there, and both would get plenty of days off and ideally would hit to their strengths (Span vs. RHers, Pence simply being rested).

Dramatic change number 2:
Adjust the way they use their rotation, like the dodgers/Astros/Indians. Move Blach to the Pen and have him and Crick become super-relievers. Limit all your starting pitchers to 2 times through the order (with leeway obviously), and have Blach and Crick clean up the bridge between the starters and late inning relievers. Have other pitchers in the minors grooming for this as well, like Stratton, Gregorio, Slania, Suarez etc. so Blach and Crick can have some rest time, and have guys in your Pen that are flexible, I.E. that can be promoted and demoted, unlike Knotos and Gearrin that are out of options (also, just get rid of those 2). This will probably mean signing a starting pitcher, since they probably won't want to commit to Beede or Andrew Suarez yet. That's fine, go sign Hector Santiago, he's typically good the first 2 times through the order. Should be cheap. Again, this is a collective buy-in thing. Theoretically, the starting pitching improves and the best relievers are used in proper spots (Strickland can come in and put out a fire in the 6th inning if Crick or Blach are pitching the 7th and 8th).

Do those 2 things, with the top 6 players I mentioned returning to some sort of form, then I think you have a decent shot at turning things around. Is this a long term winner? No. The Giants would still have to fill 3B, CF and LF or RF with low salaried players. You can probably plug Arroyo/Pablo/Jones into 3B, Jones/Slater/Shaw into LF and Duggar/Slater/Hernandez into CF though. I would still rather see a full rebuild.

 

[LHG]

If ownership is stubborn, as I believe they are, the team will have to make some dramatic roster and lineup changes in-house IMO, and it could work if everyone buys in.

I think it's pretty fair to say that Crawford, Belt, Cueto, Moore, Shark, and Melancon can bounce back to reasonable numbers (how much, as they all get older, who knows? But I think all of them aren't what they're showing now).

Dramatic change number 1:
It's not going to happen, but it would be nice to see Span and Pence platoon LF or RF. Span is basically a platoon guy at this point, and not a CFer. Pence has never had extreme R/L splits, but he's not an everyday player at this point. Again, not gonna happen, but I think less would be more with those guys. The defense would improve in CF by virtue of him not being there, and both would get plenty of days off and ideally would hit to their strengths (Span vs. RHers, Pence simply being rested).

Dramatic change number 2:
Adjust the way they use their rotation, like the dodgers/Astros/Indians. Move Blach to the Pen and have him and Crick become super-relievers. Limit all your starting pitchers to 2 times through the order (with leeway obviously), and have Blach and Crick clean up the bridge between the starters and late inning relievers. Have other pitchers in the minors grooming for this as well, like Stratton, Gregorio, Slania, Suarez etc. so Blach and Crick can have some rest time, and have guys in your Pen that are flexible, I.E. that can be promoted and demoted, unlike Knotos and Gearrin that are out of options (also, just get rid of those 2). This will probably mean signing a starting pitcher, since they probably won't want to commit to Beede or Andrew Suarez yet. That's fine, go sign Hector Santiago, he's typically good the first 2 times through the order. Should be cheap. Again, this is a collective buy-in thing. Theoretically, the starting pitching improves and the best relievers are used in proper spots (Strickland can come in and put out a fire in the 6th inning if Crick or Blach are pitching the 7th and 8th).

Do those 2 things, with the top 6 players I mentioned returning to some sort of form, then I think you have a decent shot at turning things around. Is this a long term winner? No. The Giants would still have to fill 3B, CF and LF or RF with low salaried players. You can probably plug Arroyo/Pablo/Jones into 3B, Jones/Slater/Shaw into LF and Duggar/Slater/Hernandez into CF though. I would still rather see a full rebuild.

Actually, if you look at Belt's on base and slugging percentages, you'll see he's right around his career average. The problem may be now that more guys playing 1st base are looking like the 90s model of 1st baseman (that, and people still cannot get past batting average and look only at home runs as power indicators, of which Belt is on pace to set a career high on), of which Belt is not.

 

[SFGRTB]

Actually, if you look at Belt's on base and slugging percentages, you'll see he's right around his career average. The problem may be now that more guys playing 1st base are looking like the 90s model of 1st baseman (that, and people still cannot get past batting average and look only at home runs as power indicators, of which Belt is on pace to set a career high on), of which Belt is not.

I think you know how I feel about Belt yeah he's fine.

 

[LHG]

I think you know how I feel about Belt yeah he's fine.

It was in response to him bouncing back but more to VASF's comments about Belt.

 

[SFGRTB]

Speaking of Belt, it's probably nothing, but he did just put his house up on the market. He just bought it in January.

It's possible (probable) they didn't like it, want to move to a different area. But, it's something to think about.

 

[LHG]

Speaking of Belt, it's probably nothing, but he did just put his house up on the market. He just bought it in January.

It's possible (probable) they didn't like it, want to move to a different area. But, it's something to think about.

You think (assuming it is not the probable scenario) that the FO told him that he could get traded this offseason or just all the talk of offseason moves has gotten to him?

 

[VASFfan]

It was in response to him bouncing back but more to VASF's comments about Belt.

Do I not like first basemen hitting in the 220's and 230's all year? Do I think it's reasonable to expect more/better? Guilty as charged. No way that's acceptable.

 

[VASFfan]

If ownership is stubborn, as I believe they are, the team will have to make some dramatic roster and lineup changes in-house IMO, and it could work if everyone buys in.

I think it's pretty fair to say that Crawford, Belt, Cueto, Moore, Shark, and Melancon can bounce back to reasonable numbers (how much, as they all get older, who knows? But I think all of them aren't what they're showing now).

Dramatic change number 1:
It's not going to happen, but it would be nice to see Span and Pence platoon LF or RF. Span is basically a platoon guy at this point, and not a CFer. Pence has never had extreme R/L splits, but he's not an everyday player at this point. Again, not gonna happen, but I think less would be more with those guys. The defense would improve in CF by virtue of him not being there, and both would get plenty of days off and ideally would hit to their strengths (Span vs. RHers, Pence simply being rested).

Dramatic change number 2:
Adjust the way they use their rotation, like the dodgers/Astros/Indians. Move Blach to the Pen and have him and Crick become super-relievers. Limit all your starting pitchers to 2 times through the order (with leeway obviously), and have Blach and Crick clean up the bridge between the starters and late inning relievers. Have other pitchers in the minors grooming for this as well, like Stratton, Gregorio, Slania, Suarez etc. so Blach and Crick can have some rest time, and have guys in your Pen that are flexible, I.E. that can be promoted and demoted, unlike Knotos and Gearrin that are out of options (also, just get rid of those 2). This will probably mean signing a starting pitcher, since they probably won't want to commit to Beede or Andrew Suarez yet. That's fine, go sign Hector Santiago, he's typically good the first 2 times through the order. Should be cheap. Again, this is a collective buy-in thing. Theoretically, the starting pitching improves and the best relievers are used in proper spots (Strickland can come in and put out a fire in the 6th inning if Crick or Blach are pitching the 7th and 8th).

Do those 2 things, with the top 6 players I mentioned returning to some sort of form, then I think you have a decent shot at turning things around. Is this a long term winner? No. The Giants would still have to fill 3B, CF and LF or RF with low salaried players. You can probably plug Arroyo/Pablo/Jones into 3B, Jones/Slater/Shaw into LF and Duggar/Slater/Hernandez into CF though. I would still rather see a full rebuild.

That's a lot of if's and what if's. I'm an empiricist, and I think it's improbable to expect ALL (or maybe even half) of the guys you mention above as returning to a more reasonable form. Some WILL fall short, not to mention that someone else who's doing well this year may go south next year. And plugging in all the young or other 'low salaried' guys is similarly begging for dashed hopes from some of them. In the end, maybe I'm just being a pessimist these days, but I just can't see all of that getting us to anything better than .500. And NOWHERE close to challenging the hated Dodgers.

 

[SFGRTB]

That's a lot of if's and what if's. I'm an empiricist, and I think it's improbable to expect ALL (or maybe even half) of the guys you mention above as returning to a more reasonable form. Some WILL fall short, not to mention that someone else who's doing well this year may go south next year. And plugging in all the young or other 'low salaried' guys is similarly begging for dashed hopes from some of them. In the end, maybe I'm just being a pessimist these days, but I just can't see all of that getting us to anything better than .500. And NOWHERE close to challenging the hated Dodgers.

That's basically my point here...... It's not likely it's going to work if they don't make many changes, whether it's in-house changes or bigger changes.

And about those 6 guys, 5 are having career worst seasons and are all around 30. I think expecting them to not have worse seasons is reasonable, personally.

 

[SFGRTB]

You think (assuming it is not the probable scenario) that the FO told him that he could get traded this offseason or just all the talk of offseason moves has gotten to him?

I think he didn't like his house and he wants to move, personally.

Or, he's just doing his due diligence in case he does get moved (via trade). Put the house on the market now, field some offers.

 

[LHG]

Do I not like first basemen hitting in the 220's and 230's all year? Do I think it's reasonable to expect more/better? Guilty as charged. No way that's acceptable.

If the guy is posting good on base and slugging percentages and is putting up even better numbers in RISP situations (which Belt is), batting average doesn't mean much to me.

 

[Stokes1931]

If the guy is posting good on base and slugging percentages and is putting up even better numbers in RISP situations (which Belt is), batting average doesn't mean much to me.

Agreed.

I would like to see Belt become more of an RBI guy, rather than a get on base guy. I think all but two of his homers are solo homers. His mindset needs to be driving in runs, IMNSHO.

 

[SFGRTB]

Agreed.

I would like to see Belt become more of an RBI guy, rather than a get on base guy. I think all but two of his homers are solo homers. His mindset needs to be driving in runs, IMNSHO.

I mean, I'm sure that's his mindset. I can guarantee he's not going up there thinking "I would rather get on base here". And he's actually been better with men in scoring position than not.

For whatever reason, he's been terrible with guys on 1st base. I can't really explain that one.

 

[msgkings322]

Here's a good article about how the game has indeed changed, and perhaps the Giants will need to change with it:

https://theringer.com/inefficiency-...-aaron-judge-three-true-outcomes-855405c6d5b7