Stafford 92mg and 27m per season

[Sharkinva]

Agreed, Brady in DC and they are a 10-12 win team......disagree Kirk in N.E. and they are still a 7-10 win team. Kirk has limitations that Brady does not, that alone accounts for the differences. It doesn't matter if the defenses (or coaches) are better if your QB cannot improvise/ convert at important moments.

Dude, come on. Darth Hoody had them go 3-1 with Brady suspended. Jacoby the Biscuit won one of those games for them as a ROOKIE for Christ sake. All this talk about Kirk not being able to improvise is simply another way to say he is a limited QB, and too limited for some peoples tastes apparently. It is interesting that no one wants to account for Brady having I dont know six or seven years worth of starting experience to have LEARNED how to make those adjustments.

Kirk cant do it after two years of starting and three years prior playing musical offensive systems, and its time to move on.

 

[j_y19]

So, let me ask, do you believe that this question ( how to tier QB's and pay them) will be answered in the next CBA?

No. what I do think is that they will try and implement some sort of governor on any one player's salary, i.e. no single player can exceed x% of the cap.

 

[skinsdad62]

So you're telling me that if Tom Brady were the Redskins QB, the Redskins would still be a .500 team?

if you put brady on the skins for most of his career he wouldnt have the rings

 

[j_y19]

A Saints defense that has allowed an average of 26.5 points per game for the last 3 seasons in a row and for 4 of then last 5 seasons isn't doing Brees any favors either. The one year in the last 5 years the Saints held teams to under 26.5 pt per game. Was 2013 when teams only scored 304 points on the Saints defense, 19 pt per game. The Saints won 11 games and a playoff game that year before falling to eventual SB champ, Seattle. Bad mouthing Brees isn't making Cuz look anymore attractive.

How was Kirk an issue last year? Seriously? He came up small, very small, at critical times last year and for all his passing yardage, gaudy ypa, impressive comp% and team records set. He was exactly average when it came to chunkin TD passes and he left way too many TDs in the red-zone settling instead for FGs.

And getting ass paddled out of the playoffs in week one of the postseason after winning the worst division in football that year. All while not beating a single team with a winning record. Than not making the playoffs altogether the very next year. Does not qualify the Redskins as playoff contenders.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not bad mouthing Brees, he is one of the best. But the point is even he alone can't carry a team so this argument that KC hasn't carried the team beyond a .500 club is just not fair.

Also, I acknowledge KC has short comings. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You work to minimize these shortcomings by practice and avoiding, as much as possible the situations in which they arise. No way you can do that completely, but if we weren't having to core 30 points every game to win and could/would actually run the ball, we can put a plan in place to minimize those situations.

 

[Stymietee]

Dude, come on. Darth Hoody had them go 3-1 with Brady suspended. Jacoby the Biscuit won one of those games for them as a ROOKIE for Christ sake. All this talk about Kirk not being able to improvise is simply another way to say he is a limited QB, and too limited for some peoples tastes apparently. It is interesting that no one wants to account for Brady having I dont know six or seven years worth of starting experience to have LEARNED how to make those adjustments.

Kirk cant do it after two years of starting and three years prior playing musical offensive systems, and its time to move on.

Finally some agreement....Kirk is a limited QB, who not only doesn't improvise, but can't. It's not something that he can learn either. BTW: it didn't take Brady 6 or 7 years of PT to learn how to make those adjustments, it's simply who he is, the way he's always played the game. What he's done in those 6-7 years is get better at it because he's had it all along.

If we are going to say that Kirk is limited (or can't improvise) which is true, in relation to others, but, we also have to know what those limitations are....right?

 

[j_y19]

Agreed, Brady in DC and they are a 10-12 win team......disagree Kirk in N.E. and they become a 7-10 win team. Kirk has limitations that Brady does not, that alone accounts for the differences. It doesn't matter if the defenses (or coaches) are better if your QB cannot improvise/ convert at important moments.

This I disagree with. KC thrives in a Bellicheck offense. It is tailored made for his skill set. Quick passes, play action, get the ball into playmaker's hands.

 

[Stymietee]

No. what I do think is that they will try and implement some sort of governor on any one player's salary, i.e. no single player can exceed x% of the cap.

I kind of remember reading something related to this somewhere along the line. If I can find it, I'll post it for your (and others) perusal.

 

[Stymietee]

This I disagree with. KC thrives in a Bellicheck offense. It is tailored made for his skill set. Quick passes, play action, get the ball into playmaker's hands.

Oh No, I'm not saying that Kirk can't do those things and I'm sure that he will do well in BB system, just NOT Tom Brady well.....and.....that has to account for some of the wins that they get.

 

[j_y19]

Finally some agreement....Kirk is a limited QB, who not only doesn't improvise, but can't. It's not something that he can learn either. BTW: it didn't take Brady 6 or 7 years of PT to learn how to make those adjustments, it's simply who he is, the way he's always played the game. What he's done in those 6-7 years is get better at it because he's had it all along.

If we are going to say that Kirk is limited (or can't improvise) which is true, in relation to others, but, we also have to know what those limitations are....right?

Honestly, I really don't see Brady and an improvisor. He (as was Manning) a master at prereading the defense and knowing exactly who is going to be open. When a play breakdown, he usually throws it away. I don't consider that improvising. That capability comes from studying and experience.

One of my dark horse bets is that KC ends up on the Pats. I can see a scenario where Brady retires and Bellicheck nabs KC off of FA.

 

[Yo Tee]

if you put brady on the skins for most of his career he wouldnt have the rings

I'll agree with that. But no way the Skins are a .500 team.

 

[Stymietee]

Honestly, I really don't see Brady and an improvisor. He (as was Manning) a master at prereading the defense and knowing exactly who is going to be open. When a play breakdown, he usually throws it away. I don't consider that improvising.

Gotta take another look, Brady often throws to a spot and the receiver adjusts to that throw. Happens all of the time. Kirk NEVER ever, ever does this, and doesn't take what's there when a play breaks down. Kirk is a first option second option kind of guy. Brady, when a play breaks down..... "fuck who's open or can I throw open!" I'm not blaming Kirk at all, trust....he is who he is and that's been OK for us thus far.

 

[Stymietee]

Honestly, I really don't see Brady and an improvisor. He (as was Manning) a master at prereading the defense and knowing exactly who is going to be open. When a play breakdown, he usually throws it away. I don't consider that improvising. That capability comes from studying and experience.

One of my dark horse bets is that KC ends up on the Pats. I can see a scenario where Brady retires and Bellicheck nabs KC off of FA.

You might be right, but unless there's a trade before that time, he already has a Cousins type on the roster.

 

[j_y19]

You might be right, but unless there's a trade before that time, he already has a Cousins type on the roster.

Thus a dark horse pick.

 

[skinsdad62]

I'll agree with that. But no way the Skins are a .500 team.

you dont know about team turmoil

 

[j_y19]

I've never said Kirk Cousins wasn't a decent QB. I've simply said he's not worth the money he's making. I also stated, since y'all are cherry picking things I'm saying, that the BEST thing for Washington to do is to sign the guy because it's very very risky to go into the draft to try and find your next starting QB. With that said, that doesn't mean that I think Kirk Cousins should be paid that much. My debate is if you had a better QB, you wouldn't be a barely .500 team. The sucky part is, you have no options. Only free agent QB next year worth getting is Brees and that's not possible. Getting a QB in the draft and pushing him to be the starter right out of the gate is always risky.

Is Stafford worth the money he got? Carr? The fact is that is the going price for a starting QB in the NFL. If your argument is that no athlete should get that kind of money, Im right there with you. But when you cherry pick your players and say one isn't while his peers are, then we diverge. The fact is KC is worth that kind of money to more than one team. There will be a bidding war for his services next year. The market determines worth. The real question is what is the worth to the Redskins if we don't have KC as our QB? We go into a tailspin and flounder again just like the last 20 years until we get lucky enough to find a QB of capable skills to KC. Because finding a Rogers or Brady or Manning is just astronomically low.

 

[Yo Tee]

Is Stafford worth the money he got? Carr? The fact is that is the going price for a starting QB in the NFL. If your argument is that no athlete should get that kind of money, Im right there with you. But when you cherry pick your players and say one isn't while his peers are, then we diverge. The fact is KC is worth that kind of money to more than one team. There will be a bidding war for his services next year. The market determines worth. The real question is what is the worth to the Redskins if we don't have KC as our QB? We go into a tailspin and flounder again just like the last 20 years until we get lucky enough to find a QB of capable skills to KC. Because finding a Rogers or Brady or Manning is just astronomically low.

Carr and Stafford are not worth that money either. I'm not cherry picking players, we are talking about Kirk Cousins and Matt Stafford. I've said all along neither of those two are worth the money they are or will get. Carr got paid purely on potential. I'm guessing that the Lions are okay with what Stafford brings to the team so I guess that's why he was paid that much. I'm not sure though.

 

[Stymietee]

@j_y19 (and others)...I found that article and here are pertinent excerpts as per our conversation, Thoughts?


In order to keep quarterback contracts from continuing to grow out of control, we’ll set max contracts for quarterbacks as the NBA does for all of its players. In order to keep quarterbacks like Stafford from demanding Aaron Rodgers Money, these contracts will be tiered based on accomplishments (similar to the NBA’s super max contracts).

We’ll have three tiers…

Tier 1 is reserved for QUARTERBACKS who have…

• Finished in the top-3 in MVP voting once in the last three years or…
• Made an All-Pro team at least once during the last three years or…
• Made three Pro Bowls in the previous five years or…
• Led the league in either passing yards, touchdowns or passer rating once in the past three years

QBs qualified for Tier 1 max contracts: Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck

Teams can offer these quarterbacks a six-year deal based on 16% of the NFL’s salary cap the season they sign their deal. In 2017, they could offer their Tier 1 QB a six-year, $160.3 million contract.

Tier 2 is reserved for QUARTERBACKS who have…

• Made at least one Pro Bowl in the last three years AND…
• Finished in the top-10 in either passing yards, touchdowns or passer rating once in the last three years

QBs qualified for Tier 2 max contracts: Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr, Eli Manning, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, Philip Rivers

Teams can offer these quarterbacks a five-year deal based on 12% of the NFL’s salary cap the season they sign their deal. In 2017, they could offer their Tier 2 QB a five-year, $100 million contract.

Tier 3 is reserved for all other quarterbacks
Teams can offer these quarterbacks a four-year deal based on 9% of the NFL’s salary cap the season they sign their deal. In 2017, they could offer their Tier 3 QB a four-year, $60 million contract.

If any quarterback wants to argue he has been placed in the wrong tier, there will be an MLB-style arbitration process to decide which tier he is placed into. Philip Rivers, for example, would have a compelling case to jump into Tier 1.

(Note: Teams aren’t locked into those contract figures. They are the max contracts the teams can offer. The Patriots could sign Tom Brady to a four-year, $100 million contract if that’s what both parties wanted.)

3. These designated contracts offer higher guarantees than quarterbacks are getting now.

Owners are benefitting from this system; they can keep their franchise quarterbacks without paying a ridiculous amount. Non-quarterbacks are happy too, as they get a bigger share of the salary cap. So how do we get quarterbacks on board? Offer them more guaranteed money. Around 60% of contracts handed out by NFL teams is guaranteed. We’ll guarantee 70% of the the franchise quarterbacks contracts. The total sums of the contracts will be smaller than they are presently but the guarantees will be higher.

4. In free agency, other teams can offer one fewer year than the quarterback’s current team can and only 65% of the contract would be guaranteed.

In order to help owners keep their quarterbacks at home, we’ll borrow from the NBA once again. If a quarterback wants to leave a team, he’ll have to leave a year of money and some guarantees on the table. Kirk Cousins can flee Washington for San Francisco, but he’ll have to give up a lot of money to do so.

****

So there it is. The system isn’t perfect but it keeps mostly everybody happy, allows teams to keep their franchise quarterback while still having money to build around them and leaves more money for the players who play for a shorter time than quarterbacks typically do.

Tier 2 quarterbacks would be most hurt by the system; then again, this isn’t a caste system. There’s nothing stopping them from playing their way into Tier 1. If you want Aaron Rodgers Money, play more like Aaron Rodgers.

It’s hard to imagine the non-quarterbacks empathizing with the Tier 2 guys and their complaints about their nine-figure contracts. From a utilitarian standpoint, this is a no-brainer for the NFLPA.

Quarterbacks would still be overpaid but not outrageously so. At the very least, we wouldn’t have to live in a world where Kirk Cousins is the highest-paid player in the NFL history.

 

[j_y19]

@j_y19 (and others)...I found that article and here are pertinent excerpts as per our conversation, Thoughts?


In order to keep quarterback contracts from continuing to grow out of control, we’ll set max contracts for quarterbacks as the NBA does for all of its players. In order to keep quarterbacks like Stafford from demanding Aaron Rodgers Money, these contracts will be tiered based on accomplishments (similar to the NBA’s super max contracts).

We’ll have three tiers…

Tier 1 is reserved for QUARTERBACKS who have…

• Finished in the top-3 in MVP voting once in the last three years or…
• Made an All-Pro team at least once during the last three years or…
• Made three Pro Bowls in the previous five years or…
• Led the league in either passing yards, touchdowns or passer rating once in the past three years

QBs qualified for Tier 1 max contracts: Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck

Teams can offer these quarterbacks a six-year deal based on 16% of the NFL’s salary cap the season they sign their deal. In 2017, they could offer their Tier 1 QB a six-year, $160.3 million contract.

Tier 2 is reserved for QUARTERBACKS who have…

• Made at least one Pro Bowl in the last three years AND…
• Finished in the top-10 in either passing yards, touchdowns or passer rating once in the last three years

QBs qualified for Tier 2 max contracts: Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr, Eli Manning, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, Philip Rivers

Teams can offer these quarterbacks a five-year deal based on 12% of the NFL’s salary cap the season they sign their deal. In 2017, they could offer their Tier 2 QB a five-year, $100 million contract.

Tier 3 is reserved for all other quarterbacks
Teams can offer these quarterbacks a four-year deal based on 9% of the NFL’s salary cap the season they sign their deal. In 2017, they could offer their Tier 3 QB a four-year, $60 million contract.

If any quarterback wants to argue he has been placed in the wrong tier, there will be an MLB-style arbitration process to decide which tier he is placed into. Philip Rivers, for example, would have a compelling case to jump into Tier 1.

(Note: Teams aren’t locked into those contract figures. They are the max contracts the teams can offer. The Patriots could sign Tom Brady to a four-year, $100 million contract if that’s what both parties wanted.)

3. These designated contracts offer higher guarantees than quarterbacks are getting now.

Owners are benefitting from this system; they can keep their franchise quarterbacks without paying a ridiculous amount. Non-quarterbacks are happy too, as they get a bigger share of the salary cap. So how do we get quarterbacks on board? Offer them more guaranteed money. Around 60% of contracts handed out by NFL teams is guaranteed. We’ll guarantee 70% of the the franchise quarterbacks contracts. The total sums of the contracts will be smaller than they are presently but the guarantees will be higher.

4. In free agency, other teams can offer one fewer year than the quarterback’s current team can and only 65% of the contract would be guaranteed.

In order to help owners keep their quarterbacks at home, we’ll borrow from the NBA once again. If a quarterback wants to leave a team, he’ll have to leave a year of money and some guarantees on the table. Kirk Cousins can flee Washington for San Francisco, but he’ll have to give up a lot of money to do so.

****

So there it is. The system isn’t perfect but it keeps mostly everybody happy, allows teams to keep their franchise quarterback while still having money to build around them and leaves more money for the players who play for a shorter time than quarterbacks typically do.

Tier 2 quarterbacks would be most hurt by the system; then again, this isn’t a caste system. There’s nothing stopping them from playing their way into Tier 1. If you want Aaron Rodgers Money, play more like Aaron Rodgers.

It’s hard to imagine the non-quarterbacks empathizing with the Tier 2 guys and their complaints about their nine-figure contracts. From a utilitarian standpoint, this is a no-brainer for the NFLPA.

Quarterbacks would still be overpaid but not outrageously so. At the very least, we wouldn’t have to live in a world where Kirk Cousins is the highest-paid player in the NFL history.

Interesting. Would love to see how a proposal like this would play out.

 

[j_y19]

Carr and Stafford are not worth that money either. I'm not cherry picking players, we are talking about Kirk Cousins and Matt Stafford. I've said all along neither of those two are worth the money they are or will get. Carr got paid purely on potential. I'm guessing that the Lions are okay with what Stafford brings to the team so I guess that's why he was paid that much. I'm not sure though.

What choice did they have? Stafford would have easily been paid that by the Browns or Jaguars. Again, worth is set by the market. IF you don't have a QB, you are the Cleveland Browns. Sell that to your fan base.

 

[Stymietee]

Is Stafford worth the money he got? Carr? The fact is that is the going price for a starting QB in the NFL. If your argument is that no athlete should get that kind of money, Im right there with you. But when you cherry pick your players and say one isn't while his peers are, then we diverge. The fact is KC is worth that kind of money to more than one team. There will be a bidding war for his services next year. The market determines worth. The real question is what is the worth to the Redskins if we don't have KC as our QB? We go into a tailspin and flounder again just like the last 20 years until we get lucky enough to find a QB of capable skills to KC. Because finding a Rogers or Brady or Manning is just astronomically low.

You know what?.....the cynic in me is yelling that...making and saving money while in perpetual tailspin mode is the Bruce Allen/Dan Snyder comfort zone. Sure they give a little sumptin' sumptin every now and then to quiet the natives, winning anywhere than "off the field" is strange to them......sorry man. #noconfidence