Speed or Size at WR

[Crimsoncrew]

Speaking of size and speed, Baldwin restructured his contract. He'll make $645K, though he has incentives which could get it back to his scheduled $1.4 million.

49ers wide receiver Jon Baldwin restructures contract - ESPN

Curious move for him. Honestly, given what happened to him last year, I think he would have been better off in the long term refusing to restructure, getting cut, and trying to catch on with another team. He'd be better off making slightly less money (and let's be honest, he's not going to hit any of the escalators anyway - 65 catches, 800+ yards, 80% of offensive snaps) with actual opportunity to get on the field.

I wonder if this means we have faith in him to do anything whatsoever next season. I was shocked we didn't make greater use of him before Crabtree returned. The guy isn't great, but he's posted a 300+ yard season, which was more than any of our other receivers had done. It would be really nice to see some production out of him next year.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Isnt Patton suppose to be our speed guy? What did he run at the combine. 40 Time?

Official 4.53, unofficial 4.48. He's got decent speed, but he's not a true burner. He's more quickness than speed.

 

[EKmane]

route running is most important

 

[FourBeeDen]

Decker is a big receiver. Not to mention that Thomas had the quietest big game I can recall seeing. He had 6 receptions for 28 yards prior to the Hawks leading by 20+. Some 70 of his yards and his TD came when the Hawks were trailing by four TDs.
Perhaps more to the point, all the guys you list as doing well against the Hawks are also very fast. Thomas didn't run at the combine or his pro day, but he has great speed. Andre Johnson ran in the low 4.4s, and Julio Jones in the 4.3s. Johnson has lost some speed, but he's still a superior physical talent. Not to mention that two of those guys were top-6 picks. I don't see a WR in this draft who combines size and speed the way these guys do.

We have size at WR. We don't have speed. Obviously you'd like to have both, but given a choice between the two, I think speed is the feature that is clearly lacking from our WR position.

And as far as Crabtree, he's pretty big. He weighs around 215, which is on the larger side for a WR. And while he's not incredibly tall (6'1 1/2"), his ridiculously long arms give him a catch radius that's equivalent to guys who are 6'3" or 6'4".

Thomas suffered a shoulder injury early in the game

 

[Hangman]

I like 6'3" with 4.45 speed and strength to break tackles. These guys are more than one dementional and create more miss matches.

 

[FourBeeDen]

I am just curious if those who do not care about the size of the WR as long as they are fast thinks that the Niners will change their offensive philosophy of going from a primary power running team to a 3 or more spread passing team with 3 or more WR formations...

 

[badazzk9]

I like 6'3" with 4.45 speed and strength to break tackles. These guys are more than one dementional and create more miss matches.

My (kind of) sleeper guy I really like... Donte Moncrief.

 

[deep9er]

I am just curious if those who do not care about the size of the WR as long as they are fast thinks that the Niners will change their offensive philosophy of going from a primary power running team to a 3 or more spread passing team with 3 or more WR formations...

I don't qualify as "those who do not care about the size of the WR", but do want to opine..........no, the Niners will NOT change their offensive philosophy. but this doesn't mean we should keep adding "bigger" WR's like Boldin.

I'm for the best overall WR we can draft, whether he leans size or leans speed. there are hands, route running, blocking, etc. to factor in too.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I am just curious if those who do not care about the size of the WR as long as they are fast thinks that the Niners will change their offensive philosophy of going from a primary power running team to a 3 or more spread passing team with 3 or more WR formations...

No one has said they don't care about a receiver's size. Of course a guy's size is relevant. The question posed here is whether your first priority would be speed or size. We need to be able to stretch the field with someone other than Davis, and we have WRs with size, so my first priority is speed. Ideally we'd find someone who is 6'3"+ and runs in the 4.4s. But I don't think that guy is out there in this draft.

And while I'm not convinced the Niners will change their offensive approach, I hope they're at least considering tweaking it. The passing offense has been far too ineffective given the talent on the field, and frankly we didn't run the ball all that effectively this past year if we exclude Kaepernick (Gore averaged a mundane 4.1 YPC, Hunter 4.6, Dixon 2.0 as our three leading rushers in terms of touches). If what we're doing isn't working, we have to look into trying new things.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't qualify as "those who do not care about the size of the WR", but do want to opine..........no, the Niners will NOT change their offensive philosophy. but this doesn't mean we should keep adding "bigger" WR's like Boldin.

I'm for the best overall WR we can draft, whether he leans size or leans speed. there are hands, route running, blocking, etc. to factor in too.

No one does. That's like saying those arguing for size don't care about speed. Obviously both are important considerations when evaluating a player.

 

[FourBeeDen]

No one has said they don't care about a receiver's size. Of course a guy's size is relevant. The question posed here is whether your first priority would be speed or size. We need to be able to stretch the field with someone other than Davis, and we have WRs with size, so my first priority is speed. Ideally we'd find someone who is 6'3"+ and runs in the 4.4s. But I don't think that guy is out there in this draft.

And while I'm not convinced the Niners will change their offensive approach, I hope they're at least considering tweaking it. The passing offense has been far too ineffective given the talent on the field, and frankly we didn't run the ball all that effectively this past year if we exclude Kaepernick (Gore averaged a mundane 4.1 YPC, Hunter 4.6, Dixon 2.0 as our three leading rushers in terms of touches). If what we're doing isn't working, we have to look into trying new things.

Here's the thing.. Can you honestly say that other factors besides WR play did not contribute to these?

 

[FourBeeDen]

No one has said they don't care about a receiver's size. Of course a guy's size is relevant. The question posed here is whether your first priority would be speed or size. We need to be able to stretch the field with someone other than Davis, and we have WRs with size, so my first priority is speed. Ideally we'd find someone who is 6'3"+ and runs in the 4.4s. But I don't think that guy is out there in this draft.

And while I'm not convinced the Niners will change their offensive approach, I hope they're at least considering tweaking it. The passing offense has been far too ineffective given the talent on the field, and frankly we didn't run the ball all that effectively this past year if we exclude Kaepernick (Gore averaged a mundane 4.1 YPC, Hunter 4.6, Dixon 2.0 as our three leading rushers in terms of touches). If what we're doing isn't working, we have to look into trying new things.

Then the priority choices is flawed.. The priority should be "How the candidate fit the system" not speed or size...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Here's the thing.. Can you honestly say that other factors besides WR play did not contribute to these?

Of course they did. I think playcalling was a big part of it, which is why I hope we at least tweak our offensive philosophy. But the primary element our offense lacks is speed. It was blatantly obvious last year that Davis was our only deep threat. It's hard to beat aggressive defenses without being able to threaten them deep.

In addition to the WRs, Kaepernick had a pretty significant hand in our struggles. But our OL, RB, and TE talent is very good, likely top-10 in the league at each position group. Kap isn't going anywhere. So WR is where we have the most room to improve this offseason. And particularly if Boldin returns, what we really need from a third receiver is someone to take the top off the D.

 

[AU_Fever]

Then the priority choices is flawed.. The priority should be "How the candidate fit the system" not speed or size...

Why are the priority choices flawed? What type of wide receiver do you think fits the system of the Niners? What is the system of the Niners? It is obvious that the Niners only have one deep threat in the passing game and that's VD, a TE, who has struggled against the Seahawks. The Niners need a WR with speed who can loosen the defense. So do you want the Niners to draft another possession receiver? We already have Crabtree and possibly Bodlin if he resigns.

 

[FourBeeDen]

Why are the priority choices flawed? What type of wide receiver do you think fits the system of the Niners? What is the system of the Niners? It is obvious that the Niners only have one deep threat in the passing game and that's VD, a TE, who has struggled against the Seahawks. The Niners need a WR with speed who can loosen the defense. So do you want the Niners to draft another possession receiver? We already have Crabtree and possibly Bodlin if he resigns.

So you think a WR under 6ft and under 200 lbs fit the system? The Niners mostly run 2 WR set. You put in the smaller faster WR on one side and the other team would be expecting pass most of the time.. They will put a FS deep on that side of the WR knowing that they have an size advantage on that side if the Niners decide to run on that side... So what would the other team do? Apply the pass rush on that side and have the QB move to the other side cutting the field in half because it's basically a telegraph play one that WR is in the field..

I guess there is no WR in this draft that is over 6ft and can stetch the field if you are insiting that the Niners should not care about the lack size as long as he can strecth the field

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Then the priority choices is flawed.. The priority should be "How the candidate fit the system" not speed or size...

I didn't present the question, I'm just answering it based on my opinion. Though again, if our system can't make use of fast outside receivers, we've got to make some changes. We had two larger, physical receivers last year in the playoffs, and we struggled to throw the ball on Seattle. We have very good size at WR right now (somewhat less so if Baldwin is cut and pending Boldin). We don't have anyone with great speed.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

For perspective, Patton is probably our fastest receiver with an official 4.53 forty. He wasn't in the top-15 among 2013 WRs.

 

[AU_Fever]

So you think a WR under 6ft and under 200 lbs fit the system? The Niners mostly run 2 WR set. You put in the smaller faster WR on one side and the other team would be expecting pass most of the time.. They will put a FS deep on that side of the WR knowing that they have an size advantage on that side if the Niners decide to run on that side... So what would the other team do? Apply the pass rush on that side and have the QB move to the other side cutting the field in half because it's basically a telegraph play one that WR is in the field..

I guess there is no WR in this draft that is over 6ft and can stetch the field if you are insiting that the Niners should not care about the lack size as long as he can strecth the field

The Niners do have size with their current receivers. Crabtree is about 6'2" and Boldin is 6'1", but neither are burners. Most CB's on the opposing teams are not worried about beating them deep. If they have a receiver who has speed, the free safety has to respect that. Earl Thomas of the Seahawks is not even worried getting beat deep so he often cheats and play shallow. If there is a WR in this draft that has speed and size, I would want the Niners to consider him. Read my original post. I stated that I would want speed, but never said Niners shouldn't care about size. Let me ask you this question: Do you think the Niners have a deep threat at WR? (Don't include Davis).

 

[FourBeeDen]

The Niners do have size with their current receivers. Crabtree is about 6'2" and Boldin is 6'1", but neither are burners. Most CB's on the opposing teams are not worried about beating them deep. If they have a receiver who has speed, the free safety has to respect that. Earl Thomas of the Seahawks is not even worried getting beat deep so he often cheats and play shallow. If there is a WR in this draft that has speed and size, I would want the Niners to consider him. Read my original post. I stated that I would want speed, but never said Niners shouldn't care about size. Let me ask you this question: Do you think the Niners have a deep threat at WR? (Don't include Davis).

No I don't.. . But choosing a WR just because he is fast and not putting in to consideration how he will fit the system that how the Niners got AJ Jenkins.. He ran a sub 4.40 in the combine and could not even get playing time with the Niners...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

So you think a WR under 6ft and under 200 lbs fit the system? The Niners mostly run 2 WR set. You put in the smaller faster WR on one side and the other team would be expecting pass most of the time.. They will put a FS deep on that side of the WR knowing that they have an size advantage on that side if the Niners decide to run on that side... So what would the other team do? Apply the pass rush on that side and have the QB move to the other side cutting the field in half because it's basically a telegraph play one that WR is in the field..

I guess there is no WR in this draft that is over 6ft and can stetch the field if you are insiting that the Niners should not care about the lack size as long as he can strecth the field

The argument in the first paragraph just isn't convincing. If defending a team that uses smaller, faster receivers is that easy, why are other teams able to use them successfully? The Niners almost always call a run and a pass in the huddle, so we can check out of something if we so desire. Furthermore, pushing a FS deep on one side of the field is precisely the sort of defensive adjustment we are trying to create. That will open things up for the running game and for passes to our big, physical receivers and TEs. Again, if the system can't utilize smaller guys with speed, then we need to change the system.

Your logic of your second paragraph is worse still. Allow me to repeat it for the third or fourth time: no one is saying that they don't care about size. Those of us who prefer speed are simply saying that speed is more important to this team in this draft. If there is a guy who is 6'5" and runs in the low 4.4s, by all means let's get him. But all else being equal, I would prefer the guy who is 5'11", 190 pounds, and runs a 4.41 to a guy who is 6'3", 220 pounds, and runs a 4.55. I'd like to get one of each, but I'd target the speedy player first if I believe they are otherwise comparable players.