Someone to look for in the combine

[jarntt]

Was a nice convo about this on Cowboys.com (It's still there where they discuss the safty issue and the safeties in the draft)

It wasn't that they thought Heath was that good. It was that Wilcox hit a wall and became that bad.

So for as much as everyone was displeased with Heath ... The fact is Wilcox was/ or got worse.

With a full offseason either player can get better though. But Heath was drafted for special teams not to be thrown into the fire his first year. UNLIKE Wilcox.

Disagree. In Heath I saw a guy that failed every single time and was always in the middle of the bad stuff that happened on the field. Between he and Webb, I think we had the two worst defensive players in the league. Wilcox blew a few assignments for sure anmd wasn't ready to start, but I'll take that over a guy that can't make a play even if he knew it was coming every time. if it's uncertainty of outcome versus a guarantee of failure...I'll take the uncertainty

 

[tw1st3d]

Disagree. In Heath I saw a guy that failed every single time and was always in the middle of the bad stuff that happened on the field. Between he and Webb, I think we had the two worst defensive players in the league. Wilcox blew a few assignments for sure anmd wasn't ready to start, but I'll take that over a guy that can't make a play even if he knew it was coming every time. if it's uncertainty of outcome versus a guarantee of failure...I'll take the uncertainty

I think Wilcox has a higher ceiling ...... but I trust what the coaches scouts and reports say when they talk about what happened with Wilcox.

And what they said is he was flat out lost.

Heath was drafted to play special teams and be a depth guy not start. Wilcox was the FLOP of the two.

That said I did expect Wilcox to flop. He only played safety at one year in college. Never in high school or any level.
He was the guy that was drafted earlier than he should have been. Let's just hope a full offseason under him he can grow and learn the position.
If not he will be the equal of Isiah Stanback.... a project that couldn't grow at the NFL level.

and sadly if we go safety early ..... Then the Cowboys are already admitting that

 

[PDay8810]

Disagree. In Heath I saw a guy that failed every single time and was always in the middle of the bad stuff that happened on the field. Between he and Webb, I think we had the two worst defensive players in the league. Wilcox blew a few assignments for sure anmd wasn't ready to start, but I'll take that over a guy that can't make a play even if he knew it was coming every time. if it's uncertainty of outcome versus a guarantee of failure...I'll take the uncertainty

I agree with this view more than the other.

Wilcox had the death of his mother and an injury that put him behind when he was required to be on the fast track due to being a runningback three seasons ago.

 

[tw1st3d]

I agree with this view more than the other.

Wilcox had the death of his mother and an injury that put him behind when he was required to be on the fast track

I and hope you are right .....

But do you have enough faith in being right to not draft a safety early in this draft?

If I had faith in Wilcox you would never see me name Clinton-Dix or Pryor

But this is why I name Cllinto-Dix as my guy. He can play both positions. So he's a FS if Wilcox doesn't develope ... or a strong safety if Church takes a step back

 

[PDay8810]

I and hope you are right .....

But do you have enough faith in being right to not draft a safety early in this draft?

If I had faith in Wilcox you would never see me name Clinton-Dix or Pryor

But this is why I name Cllinto-Dix as my guy. He can play both positions. So he's a FS if Wilcox doesn't develope ... or a strong safety if Church takes a step back

that's two different discussions....and I seldom buy all in on what talking cowboys has to say on a topic. I've found their not that inside, and a basic opinion more often than not.


I'm on record wanting Dix or Pryor if there at 17 OR Lamarcus Joyner in round 2 if Dline is the pick at 17. I think more than anything else we need a lot of talent infusion at safety and competition is a good thing. I haven't lost faith that Wilcox will prove NFL worthy. The guy showed as much in his limited opportunities. To me, he showed as much promise as dog. Heath and Webb look the dog part to me, not Wilcox... and lets draft another talented one

 

[tw1st3d]

that's two different discussions....and I seldom buy all in on what talking cowboys has to say on a topic. I've found their not that inside, and a basic opinion more often than not.


I'm on record wanting Dix or Pryor if there at 17 OR Lamarcus Joyner in round 2 if Dline is the pick at 17. I think more than anything else we need a lot of talent infusion at safety and competition is a good thing. I haven't lost faith that Wilcox will prove NFL worthy. The guy showed as much in his limited opportunities. To me, he showed as much promise as dog. Heath and Webb look the dog part to me, not Wilcox... and lets draft another talented one

Competition is always a good thing ... and so is depth.

WE also have Johnson coming back as well too I think

 

[PDay8810]

Johnson never got there to be considered coming back. He's a body at this point

 

[tw1st3d]

Johnson never got there to be considered coming back. He's a body at this point

They have always been high on him though ..... He just cant get on the field.

with nothing else all the depth at safety wont hurt our special teams either

 

[PDay8810]

They have always been high on him though ..... He just cant get on the field.

with nothing else all the depth at safety wont hurt our special teams either

and with some luck we'll find some football players.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I and hope you are right .....

But do you have enough faith in being right to not draft a safety early in this draft?

If I had faith in Wilcox you would never see me name Clinton-Dix or Pryor

But this is why I name Cllinto-Dix as my guy. He can play both positions. So he's a FS if Wilcox doesn't develope ... or a strong safety if Church takes a step back

I wont be surprised if the Cowboys flat out ignore Safety early in the draft. They seem to be happy with Church & they believe Johnson has a place possibly in the starting line up. now couple this with Jerrys ego that thinks they will form a diamond in the rough with Wilcox in time. Wouldn't be surprised that Jerry says they didn't need a safety after the draft is done. Just because all the experts & all the cowboy fans like us think we need a safety. This wouldn't be the 1st time Jerry has thought the opposite.
Most of us & most of the experts thought we would draft a DT last year & they announced during the draft they didn't need one. With Johnson coming back & Jerry never wanting to admit he oops'd. I can totally see a scenario where we ignore safety (maybe one late rounds)

 

[tw1st3d]

I wont be surprised if the Cowboys flat out ignore Safety early in the draft. They seem to be happy with Church & they believe Johnson has a place possibly in the starting line up. now couple this with Jerrys ego that thinks they will form a diamond in the rough with Wilcox in time. Wouldn't be surprised that Jerry says they didn't need a safety after the draft is done. Just because all the experts & all the cowboy fans like us think we need a safety. This wouldn't be the 1st time Jerry has thought the opposite.
Most of us & most of the experts thought we would draft a DT last year & they announced during the draft they didn't need one. With Johnson coming back & Jerry never wanting to admit he oops'd. I can totally see a scenario where we ignore safety (maybe one late rounds)

sadly I agree with everything you just said .....

I never agreed with the can make a Center ....
I have never agreed with the can make a safety either

So we finally got a real Center .... I want a real safety ..... No a fucking project.

That said .... D-line needs to most attention .....

Only way Im getting pissed if if we did something stupid like draft a receiver or corner early ....

Meat and potatoes draft all the way........


Firm believer build your team with meat and potato players ....... Compliment them with a Superstar here and there .... not a handful of Superstars.... and crap surrounding them

 

[Schmoopy1000]

sadly I agree with everything you just said .....

I never agreed with the can make a Center ....
I have never agreed with the can make a safety either

So we finally got a real Center .... I want a real safety ..... No a fucking project.

That said .... D-line needs to most attention .....

Only way Im getting pissed if if we did something stupid like draft a receiver or corner early ....

Meat and potatoes draft all the way........

noticed you avoided saying the "T" word........ Thanks!

 

[Manster7588]

I wont be surprised if the Cowboys flat out ignore Safety early in the draft. They seem to be happy with Church & they believe Johnson has a place possibly in the starting line up. now couple this with Jerrys ego that thinks they will form a diamond in the rough with Wilcox in time. Wouldn't be surprised that Jerry says they didn't need a safety after the draft is done. Just because all the experts & all the cowboy fans like us think we need a safety. This wouldn't be the 1st time Jerry has thought the opposite.
Most of us & most of the experts thought we would draft a DT last year & they announced during the draft they didn't need one. With Johnson coming back & Jerry never wanting to admit he oops'd. I can totally see a scenario where we ignore safety (maybe one late rounds)

I hope you are wrong. I not completely anti Church but I don't want to see the same safety tandem we had last season. We need a safety with ball skills. If that means we go with one of the experiments at FS we need a SS who can play the ball.

 

[tw1st3d]

I hope you are wrong. I not completely anti Church but I don't want to see the same safety tandem we had last season. We need a safety with ball skills. If that means we go with one of the experiments at FS we need a SS who can play the ball.

Church is like a mini me Roy Williams

Doesnt hit as hard .... Doenst play the run as hard ...... but basically does the same things .... and has the same damn flaws ....
Doesnt have a good safety opposite ..... and all of his flaws show

 

[Manster7588]

Church is like a mini me Roy Williams

Doesnt hit as hard .... Doenst play the run as hard ...... but basically does the same things .... and has the same damn flaws ....
Doesnt have a good safety opposite ..... and all of his flaws show

Fair assessment. I was just commenting on the possibility of Jerry ignoring S in this draft. Now if Schoomp is right and Jerry completely ignores S I may be the one needing a new TV. No I ain't got no gun but a brick will do just as well .

 

[tw1st3d]

Fair assessment. I was just commenting on the possibility of Jerry ignoring S in this draft. Now if Schoomp is right and Jerry completely ignores S I may be the one needing a new TV. No I ain't got no gun but a brick will do just as well .

Now I just have to ask .... How do you not own a gun?

I own over 30........

When I went through my legal issues .... I found a way to keep mine

 

[jarntt]

Church is like a mini me Roy Williams

Doesnt hit as hard .... Doenst play the run as hard ...... but basically does the same things .... and has the same damn flaws ....
Doesnt have a good safety opposite ..... and all of his flaws show

Church is an in the box safety that wasn't playing in the box and wasn't much better when the ball was in the air than the rest of them were. I heard talk on DC.com about him getting Pro Bowl consideration last year and I want to know what those people were smoking. I think like you say his flaws show without a true center fielder and with one he may seem a real good starter. Unfortunately we dont have one to find out right now. But I've yet to see anything that makes me want to plug him in for 5 years as a starter at one of the two spots. So it's possible we take a safety early this year that becomes a starter and a year or two from now Wilcox or someone else takes Church's job next to him.

 

[tw1st3d]

Church is an in the box safety that wasn't playing in the box and wasn't much better when the ball was in the air than the rest of them were. I heard talk on DC.com about him getting Pro Bowl consideration last year and I want to know what those people were smoking. I think like you say his flaws show without a true center fielder and with one he may seem a real good starter. Unfortunately we dont have one to find out right now. But I've yet to see anything that makes me want to plug him in for 5 years as a starter at one of the two spots. So it's possible we take a safety early this year that becomes a starter and a year or two from now Wilcox or someone else takes Church's job next to him.

Not to argue with you ..... but what did you just say that I didnt?

and Wilcox will never be a strong safety

 

[jarntt]

I was agreeing with you.

I don't think the book has been written on Wilcox yet to know where he may end up. No way you can say he'll NEVER be a SS. I also never actually said what position the drafted safety would play...but I go FS for sure personally...

 

[Manster7588]

Now I just have to ask .... How do you not own a gun?

I own over 30........

When I went through my legal issues .... I found a way to keep mine

Funny thing is. I'm pro gun. I carried daily as an SP in the AF. Constantly shot marksmen with the 16. Just never had the deep desire to own a weapon. I've thought about just never did. Now that I'm married and have great doubts she could use one for defense I figure were better off without one. Last thing I need is to have her give an intruder a Glock.