Some miscellaneous stuff

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Raiders and CB Eli Apple were unable to finalize their agreement, and that Apple has returned to the open market.
It is unclear if the hangup was physical or financial. Apple was reportedly set to make $6 million on a one-year pact. With much of the money now spent, Apple will have a difficult time matching that number on try No. 2. Considering the bizarre climate amidst the coronavirus pandemic, there could be a few more reported deals that fail to come to fruition. Still only 25 in August, there should be no shortage of teams interested in turning around the No. 10 overall pick's career.

Apple was terrible against the Cowboys. IDK about him

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Apple was terrible against the Cowboys. IDK about him

I dont think I want any expensive CB on the market right now.
if someone comes in on a prove it for me deal sure look at him. otherwise would rather find our own in the draft.

 

[jarntt]

Apple was terrible against the Cowboys. IDK about him

true but he is better than any CB we have

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

true but he is better than any CB we have

Round 1, CJ Henderson
Round 2, Jeff Gladney
Round 3, best safety available
A complete make over in one draft

 

[tomodach10]

Damn the 17th pick has been awesome for the most part.

It was e Barbie Carpenter.

Damn the 17th pick has been awesome for the most part.

Yea, better then 18 ( Barbie Carpenter) lol

 

[jarntt]

I dont think I want any expensive CB on the market right now.
if someone comes in on a prove it for me deal sure look at him. otherwise would rather find our own in the draft.

Expensive? I don't think he would be very expensive. I certainly wouldn't give him a huge deal but I don't think anyone will. If someone is looking at giving him $10M+ per year I totally agree with you, but I think you get 2 years for that amount from him. I don't love the player but our CBs need help. If not Apple I hope someone. Ideally we wait until after the draft but then you may have to hope someone is cut in late Summer which certainly does happen most years if not every year.

the draft: Not specifically saying you and only saying this here because of the bolded you wrote, but It really seems Cowboy fans put too much stock in the draft lately as a way to find week 1 starters and maybe because of how good we have been in round 1. The draft is a crap shoot. You make your picks and hope for the best but there is no guarantee even if you draft a CB (and you shouldn't unless the guy is one of your highest ranked players at that time) that he will pan out and even less likely it will be early in year one - but it of course can happen. When you need more than one CB and you really need a #1 you can't really ASSUME you find it in the draft. Trystan Hill (I know 2nd round so use Taco if you prefer) looks like a guy that will never be a good starter in the NFL and maybe never even a guy who plays much at all. That's unfair to say after one year of course and growth is not only expected, but almost a guarantee, but he looked horrible.

Now if we go CB at #17 and our scouts loved the guy and didn't just take a guy because it's a position of need I'd be comfortable putting him next to the other 3 and hope we find 2 starters and a nickel back out of the group without signing anyone else but we don't know if that is even going to happen and what if we don't go CB until round 3 based on how the draft falls? Like I said before in a perfect World we hold off on making the call on bringing in a vet starter until after the draft but it is risky to assume you can do it and shit corner play can derail your season even if everything else is good. The other option that I keep hoping for is adding even more pass rushers/DL and minimizing the amount of time you ask your DBs to cover - more than one way to skin a cat. Damn though, if someone had a crystal ball and could tell me Henderson would be there at #17 I would be all for going with him, another later draft pick and our current group.

 

[jarntt]

Round 1, CJ Henderson
Round 2, Jeff Gladney
Round 3, best safety available
A complete make over in one draft

If only it was as easy in real life as when we do our mocks in our heads...

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Expensive? I don't think he would be very expensive. I certainly wouldn't give him a huge deal but I don't think anyone will. If someone is looking at giving him $10M+ per year I totally agree with you, but I think you get 2 years for that amount from him. I don't love the player but our CBs need help. If not Apple I hope someone. Ideally we wait until after the draft but then you may have to hope someone is cut in late Summer which certainly does happen most years if not every year.

the draft: Not specifically saying you and only saying this here because of the bolded you wrote, but It really seems Cowboy fans put too much stock in the draft lately as a way to find week 1 starters and maybe because of how good we have been in round 1. The draft is a crap shoot. You make your picks and hope for the best but there is no guarantee even if you draft a CB (and you shouldn't unless the guy is one of your highest ranked players at that time) that he will pan out and even less likely it will be early in year one - but it of course can happen. When you need more than one CB and you really need a #1 you can't really ASSUME you find it in the draft. Trystan Hill (I know 2nd round so use Taco if you prefer) looks like a guy that will never be a good starter in the NFL and maybe never even a guy who plays much at all. That's unfair to say after one year of course and growth is not only expected, but almost a guarantee, but he looked horrible.

Now if we go CB at #17 and our scouts loved the guy and didn't just take a guy because it's a position of need I'd be comfortable putting him next to the other 3 and hope we find 2 starters and a nickel back out of the group without signing anyone else but we don't know if that is even going to happen and what if we don't go CB until round 3 based on how the draft falls? Like I said before in a perfect World we hold off on making the call on bringing in a vet starter until after the draft but it is risky to assume you can do it and shit corner play can derail your season even if everything else is good. The other option that I keep hoping for is adding even more pass rushers/DL and minimizing the amount of time you ask your DBs to cover - more than one way to skin a cat. Damn though, if someone had a crystal ball and could tell me Henderson would be there at #17 I would be all for going with him, another later draft pick and our current group.

I am not so much putting any super stock into our draft picks. It is more what I think of Apple already. We kinda already know what we would be getting with this guy. So if we went that route it (to me) would just mean now we will wait that much longer to actually fix the position(s). A high draft pick I at least have hope we land a guy to be a quality starter. outside of of trading for a proven guy, building through the draft is the best scenario. (cheapest as well if you find the guys)
If I have to pay a guy a cheap salary to go through growing pains & be burned or pay a guy 6+ mil a year to be burned & retard the improvement of the position until we give up on that guy. I would rather start the growing pains now vs. later. Even if Apple is marginally better than whatever option we end up next season. Dont think any of us are thinking he is a long term answer so unless he was just a cheap band-aid. My attitude is why bother. let's start finding the long term answer now.

Now to be fair. I honestly dont know what his # is, but I want to think I read somewhere, he was asking for 6+ but dont really know for sure.
I mean if we got Apple. I wont be thinking the sky is falling or anything. I am just not really interested in him.

 

[jarntt]

I am not so much putting any super stock into our draft picks. It is more what I think of Apple already. We kinda already know what we would be getting with this guy. So if we went that route it (to me) would just mean now we will wait that much longer to actually fix the position(s). A high draft pick I at least have hope we land a guy to be a quality starter. outside of of trading for a proven guy, building through the draft is the best scenario. (cheapest as well if you find the guys)
If I have to pay a guy a cheap salary to go through growing pains & be burned or pay a guy 6+ mil a year to be burned & retard the improvement of the position until we give up on that guy. I would rather start the growing pains now vs. later. Even if Apple is marginally better than whatever option we end up next season. Dont think any of us are thinking he is a long term answer so unless he was just a cheap band-aid. My attitude is why bother. let's start finding the long term answer now.

Now to be fair. I honestly dont know what his # is, but I want to think I read somewhere, he was asking for 6+ but dont really know for sure.
I mean if we got Apple. I wont be thinking the sky is falling or anything. I am just not really interested in him.

I mostly agree. Don't misconstrue my thoughts on the draft. I am a huge believer in building through the draft for many reasons. My issue is you can't target needs because that oftentimes means drafting inferior players like we have seen recently and to me the draft is a 5 year plus process and building for the future not week one of the following season. You absolutely build your team through the draft but usually to takes time for players to become who they are.

I'm not a huge Apple fan either and would pass unless we got him for a good price. Funny thing I was surprised to read he is only 25. I would have guessed like 28. My point on bringing in Apple or any FA is that it makes the team better than the day before the signing which is the goal. It isn't a FA CB vs a draft pick it is a FA CB vs whomever the worst CB on the team is. Signing a FA should in no way stop us from finding a long term answer today in the draft. If a CB is available that this team thinks is worth the pick at #17 we absolutely should go there and I'd trade up a few spots for a guy like Henderson or perhaps the kid from THE Ohio St University if he drops to around 10.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

If only it was as easy in real life as when we do our mocks in our heads...

Yeah. One or both could flop. Claiborne was supposed to be the second coming of Deion according to Jerry. I just happen to like those two corners I mentioned.
I think this draft is loaded with good dbs and that is where the value is. Would love to see a guy like Winfield in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

Really like what happened this offseason. The Clapper gone. Never thought we would get McCoy and Poe or any decent outside FA. We obviously are gambling on Gregory and Aldon Smith,but they can both be a menace to QBs. Smith was an absolute beast when he played for the Niners. LVE Jaylon,Gifford,Lee and Thomas is a good linebacking Corp.

 

[jarntt]

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I mostly agree. Don't misconstrue my thoughts on the draft. I am a huge believer in building through the draft for many reasons. My issue is you can't target needs because that oftentimes means drafting inferior players like we have seen recently and to me the draft is a 5 year plus process and building for the future not week one of the following season. You absolutely build your team through the draft but usually to takes time for players to become who they are.

I'm not a huge Apple fan either and would pass unless we got him for a good price. Funny thing I was surprised to read he is only 25. I would have guessed like 28. My point on bringing in Apple or any FA is that it makes the team better than the day before the signing which is the goal. It isn't a FA CB vs a draft pick it is a FA CB vs whomever the worst CB on the team is. Signing a FA should in no way stop us from finding a long term answer today in the draft. If a CB is available that this team thinks is worth the pick at #17 we absolutely should go there and I'd trade up a few spots for a guy like Henderson or perhaps the kid from THE Ohio St University if he drops to around 10.

I think me & you (or is it you & I LOL) are thinking the same way. I just think my point of view on how the team reacts is different (if he comes with a price tag). I think the team will think we have our starter & we are paying him to be that & will give him a chance (to fail) vs. starting to find our true starter sooner.

 

[jarntt]

I think me & you (or is it you & I LOL) are thinking the same way. I just think my point of view on how the team reacts is different (if he comes with a price tag). I think the team will think we have our starter & we are paying him to be that & will give him a chance (to fail) vs. starting to find our true starter sooner.

I guess maybe it depends on the deal. A one or two year deal isn't much of a commitment. Also with CB you basically have 3 FT guys and play 4 most games. So while at some positions I agree bringing in a guy could make the team feel as if they don't need to still improve that position or find a long term solution, I think it is a little different with CB

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I guess maybe it depends on the deal. A one or two year deal isn't much of a commitment. Also with CB you basically have 3 FT guys and play 4 most games. So while at some positions I agree bringing in a guy could make the team feel as if they don't need to still improve that position or find a long term solution, I think it is a little different with CB

thats true. I think we should draft CBs every single draft.
Not just because how hard it is to find the good ones, but after rookie contracts if they are decent to good they will want to be paid like a shutdown DB. So if you keep bringing them in you arent forced to overpay some that shouldnt be overpaid.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

Many of the players on this list are aging and or want more than they are worth.

 

[jarntt]

I never saw this before

 

[UK Cowboy]

Round 1, CJ Henderson
Round 2, Jeff Gladney
Round 3, best safety available
A complete make over in one draft

That would do the trick except I doubt Henderson gets to us and Gladney will be gone before our 2nd round pick. Great news is there are quality DB's through round 5-6 in this

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

That would do the trick except I doubt Henderson gets to us and Gladney will be gone before our 2nd round pick. Great news is there are quality DB's through round 5-6 in this

I like Henderson. I just am not sure if he is a lockdown corner. He appears to have better ball skills than Byron Jones,but not that much better. He is not what I would consider a ball hawk. Henderson does have good speed and covers well. I consider Antoine Winfield a ball hawk at safety and his size could cause him to fall,but I would like us to draft him if we get the opportunity.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I like Henderson. I just am not sure if he is a lockdown corner. He appears to have better ball skills than Byron Jones,but not that much better. He is not what I would consider a ball hawk. Henderson does have good speed and covers well. I consider Antoine Winfield a ball hawk at safety and his size could cause him to fall,but I would like us to draft him if we get the opportunity.

That's one of the reasons I would consider a trade down if he were bnot there. There are a few other guys like Diggs, Gladney and Jaylon Johnson who would walk in and start here