Small Ball Revolution, Right?

[Big Red Slugs]

No it wasn't. Without Horry, Kenny Smith and Sam cassell hitting timely 3s there are NO titles in Houston right now.

That's absurd, and not unlike saying Shaq wouldn't have any rings without Horry or Fish. Fact is, Hakeem was the best thing going when Jordan sat out those years. Shaq was the best thing going in his prime as well. The other guys were along for the ride and played their roles well.

 

[starbigd]

That's absurd, and not unlike saying Shaq wouldn't have any rings without Horry or Fish. Fact is, Hakeem was the best thing going when Jordan sat out those years. Shaq was the best thing going in his prime as well. The other guys were along for the ride and played their roles well.

Yes, they played an IMPORTANT role. Without them there are NO rings on Hakeems fingers right now. Maybe you didn't watch Houston play in those playoffs those two years.......without those guys hitting clutch shot after clutch shot (Clutch City anyone) Hakeem doesn't win SHIT.

Hakeem wasnt the one getting them back in the game against Orlando behind the arc. Or Phoenix. Or Utah. NONE of those series is won without guard play. not a single one.

 

[Black Adam]

Considering when you say "guard play" you're talking about 40% of the team on the court, sure. If you want to talk about championship teams with so-so PG's, I've got a litany of recent Lakers squads for you with rings and D. Fish at the helm.

BINGO...!


mentioned this on another thread yesterday...

 

[logic]

D Fish wasn't a scrub like say a Luc Longely was, or Stacy King - he was SOLID. Not a HOFer but no slouch either.

Yeah, he pretty much was. He wasn't beating anyone by himself at the PG, he'd hit the 3 when double teams and rotations left him open just like those guys got slop put backs. And they were paired with quality bigs at the PF.

 

[Big Red Slugs]

Yes, they played an IMPORTANT role. Without them there are NO rings on Hakeems fingers right now. Maybe you didn't watch Houston play in those playoffs those two years.......without those guys hitting clutch shot after clutch shot (Clutch City anyone) Hakeem doesn't win SHIT.

Hakeem wasnt the one getting them back in the game against Orlando behind the arc. Or Phoenix. Or Utah. NONE of those series is won without guard play. not a single one.

Why do you think those guys were open for those shots?

Hint: Some dominant post player was getting double- and triple-teamed.

 

[starbigd]

Why do you think those guys were open for those shots?

Hint: Some dominant post player was getting double- and triple-teamed.

Never said he wasn't.

I simply said without them, Hakeem wins nothing, which is true. Hakeem couldn't carry that team on his own.

 

[logic]

Yes, they played an IMPORTANT role. Without them there are NO rings on Hakeems fingers right now. Maybe you didn't watch Houston play in those playoffs those two years.......without those guys hitting clutch shot after clutch shot (Clutch City anyone) Hakeem doesn't win SHIT.

Hakeem wasnt the one getting them back in the game against Orlando behind the arc. Or Phoenix. Or Utah. NONE of those series is won without guard play. not a single one.

And without Hakeem dominating they would not have been open to even get a shot off, much less make one. It would be like saying Jordan didn't win championships it was Kerr and Paxson who hit the shots.

 

[Black Adam]

Yeah, he pretty much was. He wasn't beating anyone by himself at the PG, he'd hit the 3 when double teams and rotations left him open just like those guys got slop put backs. And they were paired with quality bigs at the PF.

EXACTLY. i can tell you as a Lakers fan the guy was easily on the decline. and we never made any bones about him being great. did he know his role and play it well? of course. but no one's going to put him high on their list...

 

[logic]

. Hakeem couldn't carry that team on his own.

Neither could Jordan, and neither can LeBron. What is the point?

 

[trojanfan12]

I think that the bottom line is: You have to be dominant in one aspect and at least solid in the others.

When the Lakers brought in Dwight and Nash to pair with Kobe and Pau, many picked them to at least make the finals because it was assumed they would be dominant in the middle, dominant at 2 guard and solid at the PG position!!

Obviously, with all of the injuries, that didn't pan out, but it was the thinking when the team was put together.

The Bulls teams that won the 6 titles with MJ were dominant at the guard and small forward positions and were always at least solid in the middle. Remember, Luc Longley or Stacy King were paired with Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman!!

 

[logic]

I think that the bottom line is: You have to be dominant in one aspect and at least solid in the others.

Well said.

And there is always that one exception.....the 2004 Pistons. Solid all around, no one dominating player; though dominant defense.

 

[Big Red Slugs]

Well said.

And there is always that one exception.....the 2004 Pistons. Solid all around, no one dominating player; though dominant defense.

I hate that team. I hate the announcer in that arena. I hate Hamilton's mask. I hate the always smokey and damp look in that arena. I hate Chauncey Billups winning a Finals MVP, one of the strangest occurrences ever known to the game. And I don't feel bad at all that Detroit is the armpit of America.

 

[Hambombs]

Just gotta be a good all around team, thats what its all about.

 

[Black Adam]

I hate that team. I hate the announcer in that arena. I hate Hamilton's mask. I hate the always smokey and damp look in that arena. I hate Chauncey Billups winning a Finals MVP, one of the strangest occurrences ever known to the game. And I don't feel bad at all that Detroit is the armpit of America.

Translation::"dammit, the title should've been L.A.'s that year." lol, i feel the same way, but it is what it is lol...

 

[trojanfan12]

I hate that team. I hate the announcer in that arena. I hate Hamilton's mask. I hate the always smokey and damp look in that arena. I hate Chauncey Billups winning a Finals MVP, one of the strangest occurrences ever known to the game. And I don't feel bad at all that Detroit is the armpit of America.

Don't mince words BRS!! Tell us what you really think!!

 

[logic]

I hate that team. I hate the announcer in that arena. I hate Hamilton's mask. I hate the always smokey and damp look in that arena. I hate Chauncey Billups winning a Finals MVP, one of the strangest occurrences ever known to the game. And I don't feel bad at all that Detroit is the armpit of America.

And every Pistons fan LOVES that it is all hated.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

Bigs are the most important thing to have. Just look at the history of the NBA. Until small ball or teams with below average bigs start winning championships, then it will always be a big man league. Its not really a debate.

 

[piss-tons]

Watch out for the Grizzlies. Just saying. If I am a Heat fan I would be legitimately scared of the Grizzlies. A DPOY center, a bruising PF, great defenders at the 1 2 3 (although Prince is slower than he used to be). If they met, the series would be decided by if Lebron keep up defending and rebounding with Z-Bo.

 

[Big Red Slugs]

Here's a great read for anyone interested in the distinction between a post-oriented offense, like the Triangle, and guard-dominated play or the more recent 5-man three-point specialists teams.

Death of Triangle Offense

Neat Snippets:

Phil Jackson: "The game is evolving into a 3-point shooting game. You can't win a championship with a European offense, like what Phoenix has run for the past few years. But that seems to be the style people are copying. My issue with a team like Miami is always, 'Who is going to score in the post?' An interior game is still key, even if you don't have a high-scoring center."

Phil Jackson: " . . . Tex [Winter] would always argue that you didn't need a great point guard to win in the NBA. This idea of the point guard dominating the ball is a relatively new idea in the game of basketball, really. … One of the things that's pretty obvious [about my coaching career] is that I never had to fight to get a dominant point guard. Because once you do that, defenses can align themselves against that one guy. You can pressure the point guard high on the floor and move the ball away from whomever you want to shut down. That was always my defensive philosophy against people like Isiah Thomas and John Stockton."

"When I look at Oklahoma City," [an] anonymous coach said, "I see a team that is built to run the Triangle. They are so designed to run the Triangle that it's almost a joke. Imagine them running a two-man game on the weak side with [Kevin] Durant and [Russell] Westbrook. Who the fuck is gonna stop that?"

 

[shitsho]

I have always prefered the triangle over any other offensive scheme. I think most teams just dont want to give tribute to PJ and Tex by running it. Its also difficult to learn and takes about 2-3 years to get down pat.