skins/giants post game

[j_y19]

Say what you want about Cooley but he knows tight end play even if he does have an agenda to try to get signed. He said what I've been thinking for a while. Just because a guy is big and plays tight end does not mean he is a good blocking tight end. This team has struggled all year with the run game and a lot of it is on the tight end. There is no body of work that Carrier is a good blocker. There is plenty of film that shows that Paul, a converted tight end, is not a good blocker at all. And of course Jordan Reed, like Paul only better, is a receiving tight end who can't block either.

Blocking is like tackling. To be good, you need a case of "the want to". You have to want to be a good blocker. If you just half ass it, you won't be any good. Reed doesn't want to be a good blocker. He has all the physical skills, but he has no real desire to stick his body in front of a big ugly. Great for Jordan, not so much for the team.

 

[JonBlaze]

Geez guys, let's savior this a little instead of talking about how they should get rid of one of their best offensive players....

 

[JonBlaze]

I don't dog Reed for the blocking downfield thing. That's a timing play and every NFL team has some version of it and it could be called all the time.

 

[j_y19]

Geez guys, let's savior this a little instead of talking about how they should get rid of one of their best offensive players....

No one is saying get rid of Reed. What some if us are saying is that our TE roster could use upgrading. No one questions Reed's impact as a receiver. But if he gives back just as many big plays as he produces, he is not as good as some think. Also, is anyone comfortable that he will ever be injury free and play a complete year? Just what is the downside of taking a more complete TE if one we like is made available?

 

[Sportster 72]

So I only heard Cooley for the last 10 minutes of his show. He said Reed has to get better but he is trying his nutz off. He also said he thinks Reed knows he has to be on the field more often. Cooley said that Reed told him that.

I was thinking about the job that SM and the coaching staff has done this year with a defensive backfield that is no where near what they imagined it would be in Sept. I would say they have done a pretty good job with TE too. Is Reed perfect? No, is he as good as any TE in the league as a receiver. Damned skippy. I was hard on him yesterday but he caught 8 of 20 completions.

 

[JonBlaze]

No one is saying get rid of Reed. What some if us are saying is that our TE roster could use upgrading. No one questions Reed's impact as a receiver. But if he gives back just as many big plays as he produces, he is not as good as some think. Also, is anyone comfortable that he will ever be injury free and play a complete year? Just what is the downside of taking a more complete TE if one we like is made available?

No downside, but on a team short in many other areas, TE isn't going to be high on my list of needs/wants come draft time. That being said, his availability will always be a concern and I assume they plan on having Niles Paul back to help in that regard. If there's a Gronk in the draft, sure put him on the list of potential players to get. I'd just prefer to beef up other areas if possible.

 

[j_y19]

No downside, but on a team short in many other areas, TE isn't going to be high on my list of needs/wants come draft time. That being said, his availability will always be a concern and I assume they plan on having Niles Paul back to help in that regard. If there's a Gronk in the draft, sure put him on the list of potential players to get. I'd just prefer to beef up other areas if possible.

There is only one Gronk. But there are always good TEs that get drafted every year in rds 3 and beyond. I'm not saying TE is a top need, it's not. But if we find a project that has potential to do it all, we would be fools to pass.

 

[chillerdab]

The best blocking TE we had on the team prior to injuries was Logan Paulsen. He was an above average blocking tight end with below average hands.

When he made crucial catches, it was because he was wide open because nobody expected Logan Paulsen to be able to actually catch the ball.

Niles Paul was an average blocker last year, and was signed because he became an above average pass catcher last year (with good speed).

Gronkowski is a below average blocker for being such a big man, but it doesn't matter because he's a matchup nightmre with above average hands and athleticism, and Brady gets the ball out so quickly, you don't need to have great tight ends that can also block.

The Pats are not the best example to use, because Belicheck strives for players that are extremely versatile. Edelman was a qb that is very quick twitch, so he becomes the slot wr. Blount is a great blocker, so he can be the blocking tight end for play action purposes, etc.

Reed is a below average blocker who takes boneheaded penalties, with above average atheleticism, tha tis also a bit of a matchup problem. He's faster than LB's and shiftier than slot corners. He needs to be kept, and to solve the problem, GMSM ought to invest more on olinemen in the next draft (which I'm sure he will).

 

[gkekoa]

The best blocking TE we had on the team prior to injuries was Logan Paulsen. He was an above average blocking tight end with below average hands.

When he made crucial catches, it was because he was wide open because nobody expected Logan Paulsen to be able to actually catch the ball.

Niles Paul was an average blocker last year, and was signed because he became an above average pass catcher last year (with good speed).

Gronkowski is a below average blocker for being such a big man, but it doesn't matter because he's a matchup nightmre with above average hands and athleticism, and Brady gets the ball out so quickly, you don't need to have great tight ends that can also block.

The Pats are not the best example to use, because Belicheck strives for players that are extremely versatile. Edelman was a qb that is very quick twitch, so he becomes the slot wr. Blount is a great blocker, so he can be the blocking tight end for play action purposes, etc.

Reed is a below average blocker who takes boneheaded penalties, with above average atheleticism, tha tis also a bit of a matchup problem. He's faster than LB's and shiftier than slot corners. He needs to be kept, and to solve the problem, GMSM ought to invest more on olinemen in the next draft (which I'm sure he will).

Hmmm...Gronk is a very good blocking TE.

As for the draft, we do not need to invest more on OL. Can we? Sure but not exactly a huge need. If you want to invest in a line, it is the DL we need. Realistically, the positions of most need are ILB, S, CB, and WR...throw DL in there as well but to a lesser extent.

 

[chillerdab]

Ha! Shows you what I know!

You are correct, gkekoa!

Top 12 Tight Ends Through Week 10 | Pro Football Focus

m'bad!

 

[j_y19]

Hmmm...Gronk is a very good blocking TE.

As for the draft, we do not need to invest more on OL. Can we? Sure but not exactly a huge need. If you want to invest in a line, it is the DL we need. Realistically, the positions of most need are ILB, S, CB, and WR...throw DL in there as well but to a lesser extent.

we could use a center

 

[JonBlaze]

Gronk is like another tackle out there. He's a beast blocker

Center! Yes!

 

[gkekoa]

we could use a center

I agree but it isn't a huge need. Lich has played well as has the OL in general. Run blocking was beast until lauvao and Lich went down. I am not against a center in the draft by any stretch. You know me...BEST VALUE AVAILABLE

 

[JonBlaze]

What if best value is a RB....I don't like using high picks on RBs.

 

[Breed]

Say what you want about Cooley but he knows tight end play even if he does have an agenda to try to get signed. He said what I've been thinking for a while. Just because a guy is big and plays tight end does not mean he is a good blocking tight end. This team has struggled all year with the run game and a lot of it is on the tight end. There is no body of work that Carrier is a good blocker. There is plenty of film that shows that Paul, a converted tight end, is not a good blocker at all. And of course Jordan Reed, like Paul only better, is a receiving tight end who can't block either.

Maybe now you'll stop hatin on my boy Logan Paulsen eh.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Fair point made. Also fair point that we've seen progress.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Maybe now you'll stop hatin on my boy Logan Paulsen eh.

Why? Just because our current tight ends can't block doesn't change the issues with Paulson that were pointed out well by chiller.

I'm not trying to diminish a huge win Blaze, just pointing out some obvious issues. I love Jordan too but his constant mistakes, which happen virtually every game, are incredibly frustrating. And it's true that our tight ends are a big factor in our inability to run the ball consistently.

Back to the game I still can't believe we got 2 first downs in the final 4 minutes to drain the clock. Clearly the play of the game was the big one to Reed with about 3 minutes. We punt we lose.

I am so excited at the progress Kirk has made as the year has gone on. My biggest concern wasn't just the turnover, it was his accuracy. Both issues have improved dramatically. He still needs to improve when the play breaks down. But unlike another QB in town he appears to have a pretty good feel in the pocket. He gets away from sacks, he needs to then make plays off the broken play. But that may come with time. Until then I'll just enjoy that perfect bomb to DJax and beautiful touch pass to Thompson and remembering Jason Cambell overthrowing wide open deep balls and Patrick Ramsey missing touch passes.

 

[j_y19]

Why? Just because our current tight ends can't block doesn't change the issues with Paulson that were pointed out well by chiller.

I'm not trying to diminish a huge win Blaze, just pointing out some obvious issues. I love Jordan too but his constant mistakes, which happen virtually every game, are incredibly frustrating. And it's true that our tight ends are a big factor in our inability to run the ball consistently.

Back to the game I still can't believe we got 2 first downs in the final 4 minutes to drain the clock. Clearly the play of the game was the big one to Reed with about 3 minutes. We punt we lose.

I am so excited at the progress Kirk has made as the year has gone on. My biggest concern wasn't just the turnover, it was his accuracy. Both issues have improved dramatically. He still needs to improve when the play breaks down. But unlike another QB in town he appears to have a pretty good feel in the pocket. He gets away from sacks, he needs to then make plays off the broken play. But that may come with time. Until then I'll just enjoy that perfect bomb to DJax and beautiful touch pass to Thompson and remembering Jason Cambell overthrowing wide open deep balls and Patrick Ramsey missing touch passes.

I'm not sure KC will ever get better on broken plays. Just not sure it's in his dna. I'll be satisfied if he just doesn't throw the ball into coverage and cough it up when the play breaks down.

 

[Sportster 72]

Fair point made. Also fair point that we've seen progress.

Proving that stats show what you want them to show, I will post this again in answer to this guy:

Over the past five weeks, Cousins has been sensational. In that span he has completed 117 of 164 passes (71 percent) for 1,467 yards -- averaging 293 yards per game and a gaudy 8.95 yards per attempt --with 10 touchdowns and just two interceptions. That’s a rating of 114, folks. On the season, he is approaching 3,000 yards with 16 touchdowns, 10 picks, and a solid rating of 91.7.

He would have had two TD passes Sunday but the ref called Crowder down on the 1/8th inch line.