Sixers - Revisionist history

[tlance]

Not going to get in a argument on whether all these young players are better than the others. I agree with hawk on this. I will keep my argument to which team has the roster and the assets (players, picks, coaches, style) to be the best in the east. In that argument to suggest Boston will be a 3 or 4 vs Sixers #1 is foolish. Lets see what the playoffs bring, when under pressure, when defense is needed, when a clutch shot is needed. then we can review

I am not talking about this year. I am talking about potential for future championships. The Celtics are going to be good for a long time, but the 6ers have far greater potential to be elite. Cap space for them is huge and you are not factoring that in.

This year's playoffs won't change a thing. It will take at least 2 years experience/failure + adding pieces for the 6ers to get to championship level. The Celtics aren't there now and my bet is that the 6ers pass them by before the end of the Warrior reign.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't know why everyone is so concerned with the Sixers and Celtics.

The Lakers lineup of Lebron, PG-13, Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma and Randle gonna be kickin' errbody's ass.

 

[Black Adam]

I am not talking about this year. I am talking about potential for future championships. The Celtics are going to be good for a long time, but the 6ers have far greater potential to be elite. Cap space for them is huge and you are not factoring that in.

This year's playoffs won't change a thing. It will take at least 2 years experience/failure + adding pieces for the 6ers to get to championship level. The Celtics aren't there now and my bet is that the 6ers pass them by before the end of the Warrior reign.

I know you're talking "down the road", but the way these injuries keep popping up on the 6'ers roster that may factor into the future as well...

just something else to consider...

 

[Sparhawk]

I know you're talking "down the road", but the way these injuries keep popping up on the 6'ers roster that may factor into the future as well...

just something else to consider...

Good thing the Lakers and Celtics haven't lost any of their players to injury time this season....

 

[LogicMan]

This year's playoffs won't change a thing. It will take at least 2 years experience/failure + adding pieces for the 6ers to get to championship level. The Celtics aren't there now and my bet is that the 6ers pass them by before the end of the Warrior reign.

Your statement was Celts would be a 3rd or 4th. Thats the statement I take issue with. Not sure why your rational is so negative on them. Thats what I want to understand.

 

[Black Adam]

Good thing the Lakers and Celtics haven't lost any of their players to injury time this season....

touche'...

still, only reason i bring it up is because it kinda HAS been a fairly consistent issue...

 

[trojanfan12]

Good thing the Lakers and Celtics haven't lost any of their players to injury time this season....

Difference being that Fultz is now what? The 3rd or 4th top pick that the Sixers had sitting out all or most of their rookie season?

It's one thing to miss a few games, but these guys are starting their careers missing an entire season. That's gonna create some questions. The same questions popped up with Julius Randle when he broke his leg in the first few minutes of his rookie season.

I'd say most of the health questions are around Embiid since he's missed all of part of every season since he's been in the league.

 

[Sparhawk]

Difference being that Fultz is now what? The 3rd or 4th top pick that the Sixers had sitting out all or most of their rookie season?

It's one thing to miss a few games, but these guys are starting their careers missing an entire season. That's gonna create some questions. The same questions popped up with Julius Randle when he broke his leg in the first few minutes of his rookie season.

I'd say most of the health questions are around Embiid since he's missed all of part of every season since he's been in the league.

Context is important here.

1) Embiid was drafted knowing he would not play right away. That was part of the Process. Noel was drafted coming off an ACL injury. They drafted Saric, knowing he would be overseas for at least two years. They didn't want to win in those lean years as they kept on acquiring assets. Even if Embiid plays 30-40 games in either of those first two years, they probably don't wind up with the picks they received. They probably wouldn't get Simmons, which is why the Porzingis argument falls flat on its face every time.

If Embiid had hurt his knee or back, then your last argument holds water.
Before the season, if you told me that Embiid would play 63 games, I believe most Philly fans would be ecstatic to hear that. But, I digress.

2) i don't see how you can connect the Simmons foot injury to whatever the heck was going on with Fultz, which might be more mental than physical. They were expected to play right away. They didn't. In my mind, that's more coincidence. I would like to believe that sitting them out was not the plan when they were drafted. It's like saying Gordon Hayward can't stay healthy on the Celtics. It's a throwaway statement, more likely to be used to troll Celtics fans. But, I have the feeling you are not trolling here and that you believe this narrative. And that's ok. We tell ourselves whatever we need to hear to help us cope. Before the Super Bowl, I would have to believe there were Eagles fans preparing themselves for a loss, given that we were counting on a backup QB and it was the vaunted Patriots. All sports fans do this.

3) How did missing his first season work out for Randle? Maybe his development was slowed a bit, but aren't most fans happy with what he has become? Was it that long ago that folks were ready to unload him for whatever they could get?

4) Should we be concerned about Lonzo and Ingram missing time for injuries? Sure, they don't have the history, but then again, this isn't college ball. This is the NBA with grown ass big men. Maybe Ingram's slender frame can't hold up. Regardless, which Lakers fans thought either of them would miss time for injuries? It's unexpected. If they get hurt next year, should I come back and say 'injury-prone'. Is two years enough time to draw that conclusion?

Besides, I want all three of these teams to be healthy and playing good basketball like it was the 80s.

 

[tlance]

Your statement was Celts would be a 3rd or 4th. Thats the statement I take issue with. Not sure why your rational is so negative on them. Thats what I want to understand.

How is that negative?

If I could take any roster in the entire NBA, I would take:

1: Golden State
2: Philly

Boston is on a short list of teams I would consider for the next spot. If you take that as negative, then I can't help you.

 

[trojanfan12]

Context is important here.

1) Embiid was drafted knowing he would not play right away. That was part of the Process. Noel was drafted coming off an ACL injury. They drafted Saric, knowing he would be overseas for at least two years. They didn't want to win in those lean years as they kept on acquiring assets. Even if Embiid plays 30-40 games in either of those first two years, they probably don't wind up with the picks they received. They probably wouldn't get Simmons, which is why the Porzingis argument falls flat on its face every time.

If Embiid had hurt his knee or back, then your last argument holds water.
Before the season, if you told me that Embiid would play 63 games, I believe most Philly fans would be ecstatic to hear that. But, I digress.

2) i don't see how you can connect the Simmons foot injury to whatever the heck was going on with Fultz, which might be more mental than physical. They were expected to play right away. They didn't. In my mind, that's more coincidence. I would like to believe that sitting them out was not the plan when they were drafted. It's like saying Gordon Hayward can't stay healthy on the Celtics. It's a throwaway statement, more likely to be used to troll Celtics fans. But, I have the feeling you are not trolling here and that you believe this narrative. And that's ok. We tell ourselves whatever we need to hear to help us cope. Before the Super Bowl, I would have to believe there were Eagles fans preparing themselves for a loss, given that we were counting on a backup QB and it was the vaunted Patriots. All sports fans do this.

3) How did missing his first season work out for Randle? Maybe his development was slowed a bit, but aren't most fans happy with what he has become? Was it that long ago that folks were ready to unload him for whatever they could get?

4) Should we be concerned about Lonzo and Ingram missing time for injuries? Sure, they don't have the history, but then again, this isn't college ball. This is the NBA with grown ass big men. Maybe Ingram's slender frame can't hold up. Regardless, which Lakers fans thought either of them would miss time for injuries? It's unexpected. If they get hurt next year, should I come back and say 'injury-prone'. Is two years enough time to draw that conclusion?

Besides, I want all three of these teams to be healthy and playing good basketball like it was the 80s.

I agree with most of this. But no matter how much you try to explain it away, until they show that they can make it through an entire season healthy, there will be questions.

As for Ball and Ingram, they have missed games, but they haven't missed a season and they didn't have to sit out their entire rookie seasons. The Lakers have also been very cautious (overly cautious, imo) and have held them out of games they would have played in if they were focused on wins rather than development. Even with that, there are still some questions about their ability to stay healthy.

If there are going to be health questions re: Ball and Ingram, then there are definitely going to be health questions about a team that has had at least 3 first picks sit out their entire rookie season, 1 of whom hasn't shown that he can stay healthy through an entire season yet.

Maybe they will be like Kyrie or Steph who started their careers battling injury, but have been mostly fine since. I hope so because they are going to be fun to watch for several years if they can...time will tell though.

 

[tlance]

Difference being that Fultz is now what? The 3rd or 4th top pick that the Sixers had sitting out all or most of their rookie season?

It's one thing to miss a few games, but these guys are starting their careers missing an entire season. That's gonna create some questions. The same questions popped up with Julius Randle when he broke his leg in the first few minutes of his rookie season.

I'd say most of the health questions are around Embiid since he's missed all of part of every season since he's been in the league.

Past tense.

They were extra cautious and sat guys out when they were tanking. Fultz was different.

Once they are ready to win they won't be sitting guys every other game. By the way, until Embiid broke his face on a freak play, he and Simmons were on the court almost every night this season.

 

[trojanfan12]

Past tense.

They were extra cautious and sat guys out when they were tanking. Fultz was different.

Once they are ready to win they won't be sitting guys every other game. By the way, until Embiid broke his face on a freak play, he and Simmons were on the court almost every night this season.

Disagree. First of all, the health questions exist now, so that's not past tense. It takes at least 1 healthy season for the questions to start to go away. Julius Randle's was also a freak injury, but there were still question re: his health until he completed a full season the next year.

Ingram and Ball have been in and out, the Lakers have also been very cautious with them, but there are still questions emerging about their ability to stay healthy. It's just how it works.

Embiid was drafted in 2014, he has played in 94 games. That's not even 1.25 seasons. That's more than being cautious while tanking.

Like I said, they may very well move past these questions, but until they show they can complete a season, the questions will remain. Especially for Embiid.

 

[tlance]

Disagree. First of all, the health questions exist now, so that's not past tense. It takes at least 1 healthy season for the questions to start to go away. Julius Randle's was also a freak injury, but there were still question re: his health until he completed a full season the next year.

Ingram and Ball have been in and out, the Lakers have also been very cautious with them, but there are still questions emerging about their ability to stay healthy. It's just how it works.

Embiid was drafted in 2014, he has played in 94 games. That's not even 1.25 seasons. That's more than being cautious while tanking.

Like I said, they may very well move past these questions, but until they show they can complete a season, the questions will remain. Especially for Embiid.

Health questions exist for Embiid. That I agree with. But, he could have played a lot more during that stretch than he did. By a lot more, I mean like 30-40 games. Maybe more.

It is a non issue for Simmons. He would have returned last January if the 6ers were trying to win and he does not have an injury history aside from that one issue.

 

[tlance]

Disagree. First of all, the health questions exist now, so that's not past tense. It takes at least 1 healthy season for the questions to start to go away. Julius Randle's was also a freak injury, but there were still question re: his health until he completed a full season the next year.

Ingram and Ball have been in and out, the Lakers have also been very cautious with them, but there are still questions emerging about their ability to stay healthy. It's just how it works.

Embiid was drafted in 2014, he has played in 94 games. That's not even 1.25 seasons. That's more than being cautious while tanking.

Like I said, they may very well move past these questions, but until they show they can complete a season, the questions will remain. Especially for Embiid.

One more thing because you brought up the Lakers.

I don't view Randle Ball or Simmons as having injury risk because their issues are not going to have any impact on them beyond this season. They don't have chronic issues, so there is not need to worry about their health moving forward.

Any player can get hurt, but the only prominent guy on either roster I view as an injury risk moving forward is Embiid.

 

[Sparhawk]

What’s really bonkers is when your mind starts considering : If Fultz never played, would Embiid have still gotten hurt???

 

[trojanfan12]

One more thing because you brought up the Lakers.

I don't view Randle Ball or Simmons as having injury risk because their issues are not going to have any impact on them beyond this season. They don't have chronic issues, so there is not need to worry about their health moving forward.

Any player can get hurt, but the only prominent guy on either roster I view as an injury risk moving forward is Embiid.

Oh, I tend to agree with that. But there are questions emerging about Ball and Ingram (especially Ingram because he's so damn skinny).

Randle has answered his and Simmons pretty much has. I think that if Simmons makes it through the playoffs with no injury, he will have fully answered any health questions too.

 

[flyerhawk]

Speculating on injury woes in the future seems kinda silly.

 

[trojanfan12]

Speculating on injury woes in the future seems kinda silly.

Good thing no one's doing that.

 

[handicappers]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

derp

 

[tlance]

Oh, I tend to agree with that. But there are questions emerging about Ball and Ingram (especially Ingram because he's so damn skinny).

Randle has answered his and Simmons pretty much has. I think that if Simmons makes it through the playoffs with no injury, he will have fully answered any health questions too.

The thing with young players on non-contending teams is that the organization is always going to err on the side of caution with injury no matter how minor. And they should.

If Ball and Ingram are sill missing tons of games once the Lakers are ready to win, then you have something to worry about. Until then, it is a whole lot of nothing IMO.