Six Hall of Famers MLB Draft : CHAT

[da55bums]

and runs scored

 

[Gold Rush 86]

Raines was pretty good but I would say he wasnt better than Brock. Lou had 938 SB compared to Raines 808. Plus Brock had 400 more hits during his career. Brock's best year he stole 118 bases while Raines best was 90.

 

[da55bums]

both Al Oliver and Dave Parker have more hits than Tim Raines, ok, now seeing the voters points on Timmy, the SB's are pretty but better HRs, RBI's, batting average, hits, a few rings and MVP don't get you in, then Timmy shouldn't be in.

 

[Nosferatu]

tim raines was a shoe in after 10 years, then like Dale Murphy and many others he crashed. HOF is a lot about longevity. There are guys that should be in that gave up their prime years to serve in WW2 that should go in before raines. But if Raines gets in then you have to look at someone like Al Oliver who beat raines in every category except SB's/

I think Raines belongs before Oliver, Oliver however much like Raines has no WOW stats that would sway voters, he had one great season in 82 at age 35 but other than that he was a pretty average player, didn't win a bunch of batting titles, wasn't a great fielder and didn't lead his team to Championships, did nothing in his one World Series appearance.

IMO Oliver will never sniff the hall of fame, good player not great...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

tim raines was a shoe in after 10 years, then like Dale Murphy and many others he crashed. HOF is a lot about longevity. There are guys that should be in that gave up their prime years to serve in WW2 that should go in before raines. But if Raines gets in then you have to look at someone like Al Oliver who beat raines in every category except SB's/

NO chance on Oliver his OBP was .344!!!! If you are not a HR hitter then you need to be on base for the big boys to drive you in...

 

[Nosferatu]

Parker has a stronger case than Oliver by far and just as strong as Raines IMO. Parker won two batting titles, an MVP, was absolutely a leader on the 79 Pirates and was a gold glove fielder in his early days...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Parker has a stronger case than Oliver by far and just as strong as Raines IMO. Parker won two batting titles, an MVP, was absolutely a leader on the 79 Pirates and was a gold glove fielder in his early days...

Still parker has an OBP of .339, that sucks!!!

 

[Ritzarmy]

Hope no one is biased good or bad for guys named Lou or Golds team can be really good or really bad.

 

[Nosferatu]

Still parker has an OBP of .339, that sucks!!!

The World doesn't rise and set because of a players OBP. When he was healthy he had a pretty good OBP and the last 5 years of his career brought that down under .350. OBP is great from your leadoff and #2 hitters, Parker was a middle of the order guy who didn't like to walk, he ended up hitting .290 which is not bad at all. I don't want my middle of the order guys taking walks they need to be the ones driving the runs in.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The World doesn't rise and set because of a players OBP. When he was healthy he had a pretty good OBP and the last 5 years of his career brought that down under .350. OBP is great from your leadoff and #2 hitters, Parker was a middle of the order guy who didn't like to walk, he ended up hitting .290 which is not bad at all. I don't want my middle of the order guys taking walks they need to be the ones driving the runs in.

No, it doesn't... And i apologize, i thought you were comparing another NO HR guy... players that have even moderate power, i don't judge the same way i do the non power guys...

But i still don't have him close to being tim Raines level of snubbage...


But players with no power, i think OBP is the MOST important stat... as they need to be on base for the big guys...

 

[da55bums]

NO chance on Oliver his OBP was .344!!!! If you are not a HR hitter then you need to be on base for the big boys to drive you in...

his OPS+ was almost identical to Raines, more pop, better average and he drove in the leadoff guys

 

[da55bums]

there are quite a few HOF who weren't power hitters that had high averages and drove people in, just FYI, I learned more about this draft than I wanted to.

 

[Nosferatu]

No, it doesn't... And i apologize, i thought you were comparing another NO HR guy... players that have even moderate power, i don't judge the same way i do the non power guys...

But i still don't have him close to being tim Raines level of snubbage...

I have it alot closer than you do.

But like you said earlier it's hard to compare such different styles... I wouldn't have an issue with either making the hall and I do believe Raines has a much better chance.

 

[Nosferatu]

WLK post your team!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I have it alot closer than you do.

But like you said earlier it's hard to compare such different styles... I wouldn't have an issue with either making the hall and I do believe Raines has a much better chance.

Really, when i judge players, the first question i ask is where their Career stats would ideally put them in a lineup(and i don't care where they actually hit in real life)

a guy like tim raines is best used as the lead off... Any player who projects as a top 5 hitter in the lineup is ALL STAR level, and the best of each are HOF level.... Tim Raines is statistically one of the best lead off hitters of all time...

 

[Ritzarmy]

WLK post your team!

He said he will just he has been really busy today/ week

 

[da55bums]

If we are talking OPB, George Van Haltren, should be in the HOF before Raines if that's a better example, Bobby Abrue as well, both could easily been lead off hitters and Van Haltren most likely was.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If we are talking OPB, George Van Haltren, should be in the HOF before Raines if that's a better example, Bobby Abrue as well, both could easily been lead off hitters and Van Haltren most likely was.

Never said OBP is the only indicator, just said it is the MOST important stat for a NON homerun guy...

 

[da55bums]

Don't get me wrong, I love Raines but after doing this draft I can see now why he isn't in. Plenty of players with better numbers other than SBs.

 

[Nosferatu]

Milk is right though, leadoff hitters don't get the respect they should maybe because there has been 50 great home run hitters for every great leadoff hitter and chicks dig the long ball. Like I said I think he gets in someday but I also understand why he hasn't yet.