Situational pass-rusher need

[NinerSickness]

Maybe try to swing a trade for Jared Odrick?

Miami Herald: Put Jared Odrick on the trade block

Hell to the yes.

And then, if I were GM, I'd take the money I was planning on spending on Richard Seymour & signing a guy Osi to rush the passer at both OLB & DE depending on the down & distance.

Maybe even re-sign Goldson to a 3 year deal to play SS.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I've been thinking about this. I think Harbaugh knows the Niners need a situational pass-rusher because he was so high on Bruce Irvin last offseason. They actually could have used Parys Haralson this season; that might've been a bigger hit than we realized.

After Jones, Moore, Ansah & Werner (and people are also saying Dion Jordan, but I didn't pay much attention to him; I'm skeptical. Never struck me as a dominant guy), the pass-rushers get a little fuzzy. Tank Carradine might be a guy who could fill that role. Maybe Brandon Jenkins, but I have him rated around the same area as Carradine. I'm always wary of FSU D-linemen. There's always the 2 guys from LSU, but are they worthy of a trade up? I don't think so. I'd much rather have Warmack, Richardson or Hankins.

Will Osi Umenyiora get a huge contract? He could be worth a look.

That's about it though. Okafor might be there at 31, but would that be a reach?

If the Niners fill that role, Osi & Carradine are probably the 2 best candidates IMO.

I was also thinking about this. The Niners stayed remarkably healthy in terms of starters, but they lost a lot of key depth players. Haralson would have given both OLBs a breather on early downs. Hunter, Manningham (obviously he was a starter), and K. Williams were all expected to play significant roles and would have been a huge help in the playoffs. And losing Dobbs for the season and Tukuafu for a decent chunk of it really hurt the DL depth.

We've got some intriguing DL/OLB types in Dobbs, I. Williams, C. Johnson, and Flemming. But it's a bit of a stretch to expect one of these guys to become a starter, much less to replace a guy like the Cowboy in a year or two. I really wanted to address DL in last year's draft, and I think DL and CB have to be among the top priorities for this year's draft.

As far as a situational pass rusher, I certainly wouldn't turn the position away. But I think the bigger issue is depth. If we can give Aldon and Ahmad a breather from time to time, their pass rush should improve.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

if we went only by need, also pass rusher would help us the most? but we pick 31st so realistically, we won't get a pass rushing 'beast'? we can trade up to improve our chances, but still low odds. just don't see us able to trade up HIGH?

if a very good prospect isn't there, i'd still consider good value outside of round 1?

if still no 'OLB' on the draft board, then lets not force it. we might then consider strengthening DE?

If you're saying a pass rusher is our biggest need, I can't agree. Brooks and Smith are good pass rushers. Aldon is special if he can get back to his early season form. I think the shoulder injury hampered him a lot more than most realized. He was so much more timid about contact from the NE game on. Justin Smith's absence doesn't explain that. We need another player to rotate in at OLB, just like we do at DE - especially if we see RJF as our NT next year. But I don't think we absolutely NEED a pass rush specialist. It would be nice to have, but I think a DE to groom, CB, and likely one of the safety spots presents a greater need. Not to mention a second TE if Walker leaves, and possibly WR.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Maybe try to swing a trade for Jared Odrick?

Miami Herald: Put Jared Odrick on the trade block

I liked Odrick coming out. I haven't really followed him since, but I think he would be a good fit and would allow Justin and Ray to catch their breath. I'd be interested in a move like that, especially given the number of picks we have this year. Would they move him for one of our thirds? If so, I would strongly consider it.

 

[TobyTyler]

I'm not sure its our outside guys who are the problem. If the guys in the middle cannot make any headway in collpasing the pocket the QB will have all day to step up and throw The key to pass defense is getting folks in the QB's face.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm not sure its our outside guys who are the problem. If the guys in the middle cannot make any headway in collpasing the pocket the QB will have all day to step up and throw The key to pass defense is getting folks in the QB's face.

Late in the season and in the playoffs, I think the problem was a combination of Justin's inability to create any pressure at all due to the arm injury, and Aldon playing tentatively presumably due in large part to the shoulder injury. I thought Ahmad and Ray played pretty well all things considered. At least in the pass rush. Ahmad still makes mental errors and loses contain too often for my tastes. Especially when Flacco kept rolling right. Did he roll left even once? You've got to notice that and be ready for it.

 

[TobyTyler]

Late in the season and in the playoffs, I think the problem was a combination of Justin's inability to create any pressure at all due to the arm injury, and Aldon playing tentatively presumably due in large part to the shoulder injury. I thought Ahmad and Ray played pretty well all things considered. At least in the pass rush. Ahmad still makes mental errors and loses contain too often for my tastes. Especially when Flacco kept rolling right. Did he roll left even once? You've got to notice that and be ready for it.

Agreed. And I think if the Smiths both come back healthy next season the pass rush will be acceptable. It went to shit once J. Smith got the injury in the second half of the Pats game and I don't think it was a coincidence that the defense got torched in that second half and in several games since.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Another thing being overlooked is our lack of big blitzes. Fangio never seems to send more then the front 3 or 4 at times. This gave the QB lots of time, our CB's cant cover all day.

I wish fangio threw more exotic blitzes in there.

 

[Jikkle]

I liked Odrick coming out. I haven't really followed him since, but I think he would be a good fit and would allow Justin and Ray to catch their breath. I'd be interested in a move like that, especially given the number of picks we have this year. Would they move him for one of our thirds? If so, I would strongly consider it.

I could see one of our 3rds getting it done but I probably wouldn't go any higher than that since we're talking a rotational player.

Though I suppose I could entertain our 2nd considering we're talking about a guy whose 25, making peanuts for 2 more seasons, and would be a great addition to give Smith and Ray some rest since he could come in out 1st and 2nd downs.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I could see one of our 3rds getting it done but I probably wouldn't go any higher than that since we're talking a rotational player.

Though I suppose I could entertain our 2nd considering we're talking about a guy whose 25, making peanuts for 2 more seasons, and would be a great addition to give Smith and Ray some rest since he could come in out 1st and 2nd downs.

I agree I wouldn't give up our second. I would consider adding another late pick, probably. But I would see Odrick as a potential replacement for Smith at RDE. As said, I've lost track of him since the draft, and I certainly wouldn't expect him to offer what Justin has over the past few years, but we're not going to find that anyway.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Out of curiosity, I just looked into JJ Watt's combine numbers. No wonder he bats so many balls. The guy had a 37" vertical. That's incredible for a guy who's 290.

For the record, the batted balls comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Obviously a lot more goes into it than just his vertical.

 

[NinerSickness]

JJ Watt had one of the best combines I've ever seen.

 

[Bemular]

Late in the season and in the playoffs, I think the problem was a combination of Justin's inability to create any pressure at all due to the arm injury, and Aldon playing tentatively presumably due in large part to the shoulder injury. I thought Ahmad and Ray played pretty well all things considered. At least in the pass rush. Ahmad still makes mental errors and loses contain too often for my tastes. Especially when Flacco kept rolling right. Did he roll left even once? You've got to notice that and be ready for it.

Crimson, I think you’re buying the bull on this - Aldon never played tentatively. He played near or over 90% of downs and posted his second highest single game combined tackle total vs. the Seahawks while having a fierce battle with Okung all night.

Despite the fact that Okung got the best of Aldon, Aldon still made his presence known and against almost any other QB Aldon likely records 1 or 2 sacks. He gave up on a few plays but considering the score and Aldon's MO that doesn't surprise me.

Vs. the Cardinals he had fewer tackles but had just as much contact and played just as hard as he did in Seattle for just as many plays (%) - In fact it was Aldon that decked Snyder - with his "supposed" bad shoulder.

Hell, in the 3rd qtr PB&J did Cowboy's signature move on the G & T and when Aldon stunted to the open Left A-Gap the center slid over to pick him up allowing Brooks to come through the vacant Right A-Gap for the sack.


Vs. Green Bay, same story as the two above - not tentative playing at all.
Vs. Atlanta his line was empty but his effort was fierce - REALLY not tentative
Vs. Baltimore - Yeah that was hard enough to watch once let alone 6-7 times.

His injury came late in the New England game and had all the trademarks of a burner. He left for one, maybe two plays and was right back in.

Anyway, I know the media likes to hype and sell this kind of bull shit about injuries but I strongly recommend keeping your checkbook in your pocket. Aldon's shoulder was fine.

Aside for playing his first full season and the usual nicks & dings, the biggest factors in Aldon's drop in sack production are two things; the loss of JS and the fact that after 19.5 sacks you are going to get schemed & defended differently.

But playing tentatively? Not even close.

 

[Jikkle]

Crimson, I think you’re buying the bull on this - Aldon never played tentatively. He played near or over 90% of downs and posted his second highest single game combined tackle total vs. the Seahawks while having a fierce battle with Okung all night.

Despite the fact that Okung got the best of Aldon, Aldon still made his presence known and against almost any other QB Aldon likely records 1 or 2 sacks. He gave up on a few plays but considering the score and Aldon's MO that doesn't surprise me.

Vs. the Cardinals he had fewer tackles but had just as much contact and played just as hard as he did in Seattle for just as many plays (%) - In fact it was Aldon that decked Snyder - with his "supposed" bad shoulder.

Hell, in the 3rd qtr PB&J did Cowboy's signature move on the G & T and when Aldon stunted to the open Left A-Gap the center slid over to pick him up allowing Brooks to come through the vacant Right A-Gap for the sack.


Vs. Green Bay, same story as the two above - not tentative playing at all.
Vs. Atlanta his line was empty but his effort was fierce - REALLY not tentative
Vs. Baltimore - Yeah that was hard enough to watch once let alone 6-7 times.

His injury came late in the New England game and had all the trademarks of a burner. He left for one, maybe two plays and was right back in.

Anyway, I know the media likes to hype and sell this kind of bull shit about injuries but I strongly recommend keeping your checkbook in your pocket. Aldon's shoulder was fine.

Aside for playing his first full season and the usual nicks & dings, the biggest factors in Aldon's drop in sack production are two things; the loss of JS and the fact that after 19.5 sacks you are going to get schemed & defended differently.

But playing tentatively? Not even close.

I think his shoulder was somewhat of a factor but how much of a factor we're not sure.

He was limited in practice for pretty much the New England game on and you just aren't going to do that if it was just some nicks and dings so there had to be some concern with the shoulder for the 9ers to do that.

In fact we can't even say for sure it was his shoulder since 9er injury reports are pretty generic.

I will say the factors you listed above were bigger factors than the injury and both Smith's hurting at the same time was unfortunate.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimson, I think you’re buying the bull on this - Aldon never played tentatively. He played near or over 90% of downs and posted his second highest single game combined tackle total vs. the Seahawks while having a fierce battle with Okung all night.

Despite the fact that Okung got the best of Aldon, Aldon still made his presence known and against almost any other QB Aldon likely records 1 or 2 sacks. He gave up on a few plays but considering the score and Aldon's MO that doesn't surprise me.

Vs. the Cardinals he had fewer tackles but had just as much contact and played just as hard as he did in Seattle for just as many plays (%) - In fact it was Aldon that decked Snyder - with his "supposed" bad shoulder.

Hell, in the 3rd qtr PB&J did Cowboy's signature move on the G & T and when Aldon stunted to the open Left A-Gap the center slid over to pick him up allowing Brooks to come through the vacant Right A-Gap for the sack.


Vs. Green Bay, same story as the two above - not tentative playing at all.
Vs. Atlanta his line was empty but his effort was fierce - REALLY not tentative
Vs. Baltimore - Yeah that was hard enough to watch once let alone 6-7 times.

His injury came late in the New England game and had all the trademarks of a burner. He left for one, maybe two plays and was right back in.

Anyway, I know the media likes to hype and sell this kind of bull shit about injuries but I strongly recommend keeping your checkbook in your pocket. Aldon's shoulder was fine.

Aside for playing his first full season and the usual nicks & dings, the biggest factors in Aldon's drop in sack production are two things; the loss of JS and the fact that after 19.5 sacks you are going to get schemed & defended differently.

But playing tentatively? Not even close.

This certainly isn't me buying into the media spin. Frankly, I don't think the media made enough of his shoulder. Most of the media was just pointing to the Justin Smith injury and saying it affected Aldon. I didn't buy that and I still don't. Only several weeks after Justin got hurt did we start to see some of the beat writers consider Aldon's shoulder.

I really noticed him playing tentatively in the NE game, basically shying away from contact entirely in the second half. I can't say I watched him every snap from there through the remainder of the season, and I never watched a game a second time - though from time to time I caught some highlights - but in my opinion he was playing much less assertively late in the season than he did through the first half. He seemed more himself in the playoffs, but there were still several obvious passing plays I caught where I was surprised he wasn't more aggressive.

It's possible his shoulder was fine, but I'm skeptical. He stayed in a no-contact jersey up to the week of the super bowl. And I thought he struggled to get off blocks the way he had earlier in the year, with or without Smith. If you disagree, that's fine.

 

[Bemular]

This certainly isn't me buying into the media spin. Frankly, I don't think the media made enough of his shoulder. Most of the media was just pointing to the Justin Smith injury and saying it affected Aldon. I didn't buy that and I still don't. Only several weeks after Justin got hurt did we start to see some of the beat writers consider Aldon's shoulder.

I really noticed him playing tentatively in the NE game, basically shying away from contact entirely in the second half. I can't say I watched him every snap from there through the remainder of the season, and I never watched a game a second time - though from time to time I caught some highlights - but in my opinion he was playing much less assertively late in the season than he did through the first half. He seemed more himself in the playoffs, but there were still several plays I caught where I was surprised he wasn't more aggressive.

It's possible his shoulder was fine, but I'm skeptical. He stayed in a no-contact jersey up to the week of the super bowl. And I thought he struggled to get off blocks the way he had earlier in the year, with or without Smith. If you disagree, that's fine.

Just something to keep in mind about NE is the fact that they ran 92 plays/65 of which were passing plays and Aldon was in for all but a few of those. So, if there was some tentativeness vs. NE I'm going to be okay with that - to a point.

That said, one thing I do see and perhaps you're seeing this as well is that Aldon will take "plays off" from time to time, especially those that are away from him.

Anyway, as for all the injury attire & reports - Eh, I see it more as high-stakes gamesmanship than anything else. Because when he came out, perhaps all cortisoned-up, he didn't look like a guy that needed a black jersey.

Maybe we are both correct?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Just something to keep in mind about NE is the fact that they ran 92 plays/65 of which were passing plays and Aldon was in for all but a few of those. So, if there was some tentativeness vs. NE I'm going to be okay with that - to a point.

That said, one thing I do see and perhaps you're seeing this as well is that Aldon will take "plays off" from time to time, especially those that are away from him.

Anyway, as for all the injury attire & reports - Eh, I see it more as high-stakes gamesmanship than anything else. Because when he came out, perhaps all cortisoned-up, he didn't look like a guy that needed a black jersey.

Maybe we are both correct?

Re: NE, I saw several plays in a row where he was just dancing, basically trying to juke the OT. It's possible he was just tired. I read it as something going on with him physically, though to be fair, some of that may have to do with recalling his shoulder injury. I just hope he and Justin bounce back in a big way next year, and that we can get both of them some help in terms of a couple players to get into the rotation.

 

[Bemular]

Re: NE, I saw several plays in a row where he was just dancing, basically trying to juke the OT. It's possible he was just tired. I read it as something going on with him physically, though to be fair, some of that may have to do with recalling his shoulder injury. I just hope he and Justin bounce back in a big way next year, and that we can get both of them some help in terms of a couple players to get into the rotation.

Could not agree more on that right there my Brother!

 

[deep9er]

If you're saying a pass rusher is our biggest need, I can't agree. Brooks and Smith are good pass rushers. Aldon is special if he can get back to his early season form. I think the shoulder injury hampered him a lot more than most realized. He was so much more timid about contact from the NE game on. Justin Smith's absence doesn't explain that. We need another player to rotate in at OLB, just like we do at DE - especially if we see RJF as our NT next year. But I don't think we absolutely NEED a pass rush specialist. It would be nice to have, but I think a DE to groom, CB, and likely one of the safety spots presents a greater need. Not to mention a second TE if Walker leaves, and possibly WR.

yes, do think the one player that can make the most impact now is a pass rusher? i'd insert all three (my wish player, Brooks, and Aldon) on passing downs. we can always use better talent everywhere, so there are other needs. but if there is only ONE i could choose..............

but we can disagree on this cause realistically, we won't get this "pass rushing beast" without a LOT of luck.

the way the NFL is now - passing trend - nothing like pressure to disrupt all these good QB's we face. all these passing offenses we must beat to win it all.

 

[RobertPhD01]

I think we should have dialed up more blitzes, better depth at Db, Olb, and De will help with that!! Go 49ers!!