Should Jack Z keep his job for another year?

[seahawksfan234]

This might be a bit early for this question, but I think it is a really interesting question to discuss.

Hypothetically speaking, say the Mariners finish the season with their current winning percentage (Which would place them at around 87-75). Should Jack Zduriencik keep his job?

I think this question is interesting because it is pretty much the consensus that Zduriencik has had a mediocre tenure as Mariners general manager, and aside from adding Robinson Cano and Chris Young, has not done a ton to improve the roster. BUT, if the team continues at its current pace, it would be a significant improvement from last year and would be the team's 2nd best finish since 2003. Therefore, it wouldn't be fair to terminate his position since the team is looking up, despite his numerous bad decisions as Mariners GM.

What do you think? Say the Mariners finish 87-75 at the end of the year, should Zduriencik keep his job?

 

[NWinAZ]

Might as well because nobody would be able to do anything with ownership. If all the reports are true that they can't spend anymore money, then you might as well let him play with this team since they won't stay above .500 for long because you aren't going to continue to have this pitching do what it is doing each year. Odds are against you at this high level.

 

[cezero]

Might as well because nobody would be able to do anything with ownership. If all the reports are true that they can't spend anymore money, then you might as well let him play with this team since they won't stay above .500 for long because you aren't going to continue to have this pitching do what it is doing each year. Odds are against you at this high level.

yep

with this ownership/ceo/president, it doesn't matter who's at GM really

 

[dude82]

I think his current contract only runs through the 2014 season, so it would be a matter of not extending him again rather than of firing him, but if the M's win 87 games this year and decide not to bring him back again, they might have a hard time selling it as the right move.

Of course, teams do this kind of thing all the time, so it wouldn't exactly shock me. They keep one guy around long enough to build a team up to the brink of success, letting him do all the hard work of digging the team out of the hole they were in when he got there, then let him leave or fire him and hire a new guy to "take it to the next level", giving the new guy the credit for essentially being there when it finally came together and maybe putting the final few pieces in place (usually with a bigger budget than the last guy had to work with).

Zduriencik has been far from perfect and I probably wouldn't have blamed the Mariners for letting him go after last year, but if they don't bring him back after an 87-win season and the team takes the next step with a new GM and a few new pieces, but is still essentially Jack's team, I sincerely hope that they at least acknowledge his importance in getting the team most of the way there.

 

[seattlefan75]

I will defend the ownership by saying that when they did give Jack Z some money he went and got Figgins along with other bust free agents, none of his draft picks had panned out so if your an owner why would you shell more money out if this guy hasnt done anything. I do believe NOW assuming we win almost 90 games this season and were heading into free agency they will give more money for jack to play with.

 

[blstoker]

I will defend the ownership by saying that when they did give Jack Z some money he went and got Figgins along with other bust free agents, none of his draft picks had panned out so if your an owner why would you shell more money out if this guy hasnt done anything. I do believe NOW assuming we win almost 90 games this season and were heading into free agency they will give more money for jack to play with.

IDK, I know it's easy to look at the Figgins contract now that its run its course and say that it was a horrible signing, but I actually liked the deal when it was first made. He was a career .290 slap hitter who stole bases. I thought that he was the kind of player who had success in Seattle. Now, he fell off badly, but I didn't expect that by his second season that he'd only be hitting in the .180s when the contract was signed. Besides, it isn't like Jack had been given extra money to spend, actually they slashed the budget that offseason (from some $100 million to around $85 million).

As for the question at hand, I just am not sure who you bring in with this teams budget who can make it work any better. I know that there are teams with smaller budgets, but the team has a lot of their budget tied up already, so it's not as much as it seems. The problem with this team isn't that Jack hasn't built up the minor system (like was his promise when he came in), it's that those hitters having success in the minors aren't coming up and having any success with the M's. I don't know exactly why players aren't being fully developed, but there has to be something that is just wrong with the situation.

As a side note, I was surprised to see that Figgins is still in the MLB.

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree that Figgins was a good signing at the time, but it appears he took the money and quit or something. I don't blame Safeco for his issues because he was a slap hitter like mentioned above and Safeco never hurt the king of slap hitting Ichiro.

 

[NWinAZ]

I am a conspiracy theorist and believe the Angels paid people to come here and destroy our organization. Spiezo stud to dud. Figgins stud to dud. Bavasi installed to ruin our farm system for years to come. Angels my arse!

 

[unlvmariners]

I think Jack Z has made some good decisions, some bad decisions, some unlucky ones and some that ended up not mattering either way. That said I don't like the guy and I think his job could be done better.

I don't think he will be replaced if the team wins. If the team looses then I think it would be more of a possibility but wouldn't be surprised if he stays.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree that Figgins was a good signing at the time, but it appears he took the money and quit or something. I don't blame Safeco for his issues because he was a slap hitter like mentioned above and Safeco never hurt the king of slap hitting Ichiro.

I thought we were at a consensus that signing Figgins was a horrible move back at CBS? His style didn't fit with the club at all and made our all star 2B a 3B

And barring a deep playoff run, no Jack does not deserve an extension. Having 2 decent seasons does not deserve a contract. Even with the crappy ownership the Mariners should be in a better position than they are now. All the prospects, horrible trades, the crappy contracts he gave out and all the coaches who have come and gone fall squarely on him.

 

[cezero]

figgins was a bad signing to me from the get go, mostly because we already had a leadoff hitter set in stone in ichiro. that's where figgins was hitting his entire time when he was successful in LA, and there was really no way to know how he'd do hitting 2-5 in the order.

just not a great fit for the m's. he might have gone on to do some very nice work if he had gone to a team where he fit better.

leadoff hitters are a unique bunch. kenny lofton was one of my favorites in the 90s, and i think he might have had similar struggles if he were foisted into a new role somewhere else in the order after establishing himself as a premier leadoff guy.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I dont think Z should get a pass because of the ownership/front office. Im not suggesting thats whats being assumed here but I dont think the attitude of "no one else could do better" is the way to view it.

At the end of the day budget or not, he stilled turned Cliff Lee into Justin Smoak, Doug Fister into Charlie Furbush and guys like Brandon Morrow, Erik Bedard and Pineda into nothing really. Maybe the last three guys I listed aren't amazing but he still should have done better in those trades. I still see an offense that has ranked at or near the bottom of baseball since he took over in 2009. I wont pin all the lack of prospect success at the ML level all on him but he does deserve some blame for that.

Im personally struggling to find an argument to keep Z. Even if they do win something like 85 games this year and keep him it seems like its just delaying the inevitable.

 

[wazzu31]

I dont think Z should get a pass because of the ownership/front office. Im not suggesting thats whats being assumed here but I dont think the attitude of "no one else could do better" is the way to view it.

At the end of the day budget or not, he stilled turned Cliff Lee into Justin Smoak, Doug Fister into Charlie Furbush and guys like Brandon Morrow, Erik Bedard and Pineda into nothing really. Maybe the last three guys I listed aren't amazing but he still should have done better in those trades. I still see an offense that has ranked at or near the bottom of baseball since he took over in 2009. I wont pin all the lack of prospect success at the ML level all on him but he does deserve some blame for that.

Im personally struggling to find an argument to keep Z. Even if they do win something like 85 games this year and keep him it seems like its just delaying the inevitable.

Exactly the thoughts the ownership should have. Just try to find a reason to keep him. Not wow, this was a surprise season. Collectively his tenure has been much worse than Bavasi, and definitely worse than the best GM the M's have ever had in Woody.

That one blip optimism is what made Bavasi trade for Bedard and Jack go for Figgins.

 

[Destroydacre]

Exactly the thoughts the ownership should have. Just try to find a reason to keep him. Not wow, this was a surprise season. Collectively his tenure has been much worse than Bavasi, and definitely worse than the best GM the M's have ever had in Woody.

That one blip optimism is what made Bavasi trade for Bedard and Jack go for Figgins.

*Cough* Pat Gillick *cough*...

 

[dude82]

*Cough* Pat Gillick *cough*...

Exactly what I was thinking. I remember when people wanted to run Woody out of town they were so frustrated with him.

 

[NWinAZ]

Talking about Pat 'Hall of Fame' Gillick? Can we say that about any other exec we have ever had? Nope.

 

[RegentDenali]

 

[Itsmytime]

*Cough* Pat Gillick *cough*...

You realize Pat Gillick absolutely ruined the farm system with his win now mantra, which we got to the playoffs 2 years he was GM. Then it got even worse with Bavasi. That being said I truly believe Zduriencik has done a decent job trying to fix the farm system. But on the big league level he has really hit and missed on a few players.

 

[Destroydacre]

You realize Pat Gillick absolutely ruined the farm system with his win now mantra, which we got to the playoffs 2 years he was GM. Then it got even worse with Bavasi. That being said I truly believe Zduriencik has done a decent job trying to fix the farm system. But on the big league level he has really hit and missed on a few players.

What I remember is that the Mariners in 4 years under Gillick never failed to win 90 games. What I remember is that Gillick actually put together starting rotations and bullpens that complimented some of the best offenses in Mariners history, something that Woodward almost never did. What I remember is that the Mariners were on the brink of winning a World Series and Howie and Chuck fucked it all up not allowing him to make the trades he wanted (most notably in 2001 and 2002) which cost the Mariners dearly and ended up chasing Gillick out of Seattle. All he did was go to the loosingest franchise in MLB history and win consecutive NL pennants and a World Series. What I remember is that before Seattle, Gillick GM'd the Blue Jays to the only playoff appearances that franchise has ever seen to this day and won two World Series before the Mariners ever made the playoffs, keeping in mind the M's and Blue Jays came into the American League in the same season.

Looking back at those mid to late 90's drafts I don't think the M's system was nearly as good as the pundits had it rated when Gillick was GM. Also guys such as Adam Jones, Asdrubal Cabrera and Shin-Soo Choo were all brought in under Gillick, is it his fault Bavasi moved them for the likes of Eduardo Perez and Erik Bedard? Pat Gillick is the best GM the Mariners have ever had, and second place isn't close. The fact that Gillick could still succeed despite the stink of Howie and Chuck constantly choking him speaks volumes about how great of a baseball mind he is.

 

[cezero]

gillick traded away the farm for nothing with the m's. after assembling a billy beane group of guys in 2001, he systematically began destroying the farm.

it took nearly 15 years with the blue jays to be perennially successful. and when he took over the phillies, they were already near the top of their division the past couple of years. the infrastructure was there, and they were lucky they canned in him in 08 and stayed at the top of their division for a couple more years before he had a chance to destroy them.