Shohei Ohtani

[JohnU]

Agreed. Career .283/.310/.502 hitter with an OPS+ of 106. Owings did try to transition to the outfield in the minors a few years ago, but it didn't go too well (.252/.296/.444 across Rookie ball/AA/AAA with 14/92 BB/K). His power could have made him a decent bat off the bench, but I think his plate discipline issues probably would have kept him from being an every day player.

A pretty good example was Rick Ankiel of a guy who transitioned. Owings was used a lot as a pinch hitter whereas Leake had pretty good bat skills his first couple of years until the league starting really trying to get him out.

One of the better hitting pitchers was Dontrelle Willis, who probably could have been signed as a bench bat after he left the Reds. Of course Carlos Zambrano is a textbook -- though he was too good a pitcher -- and a brain cramp as well.

The best hitting pitcher I ever heard about was Wes Farrell.

This may be hijacking the thread a little.

FARRELL'S NUMBERS

WILLIS'S NUMBERS

 

[navamind]

A pretty good example was Rick Ankiel of a guy who transitioned. Owings was used a lot as a pinch hitter whereas Leake had pretty good bat skills his first couple of years until the league starting really trying to get him out.

One of the better hitting pitchers was Dontrelle Willis, who probably could have been signed as a bench bat after he left the Reds. Of course Carlos Zambrano is a textbook -- though he was too good a pitcher -- and a brain cramp as well.

The best hitting pitcher I ever heard about was Wes Farrell.

This may be hijacking the thread a little.

FARRELL'S NUMBERS

WILLIS'S NUMBERS

I don't really see how it's hijacking the thread, we're discussing a potential two way guy. And what better name to throw in here than Wes Ferrell?

 

[navamind]

Also, how great is Ferrell's 1935 season?

As a pitcher:
25-14, 3.52 ERA, 322.1 innings (led AL), 134 ERA+, 1.38 WHIP, 8.4 WAR, 31 complete games (led AL)

As a hitter:
.347/.427/.533, 13 XBH (7 home runs), 32 RBIs, 2.6 WAR in 179 plate appearances

 

[DragonfromTO]

Agreed. Career .283/.310/.502 hitter with an OPS+ of 106. Owings did try to transition to the outfield in the minors a few years ago, but it didn't go too well (.252/.296/.444 across Rookie ball/AA/AAA with 14/92 BB/K). His power could have made him a decent bat off the bench, but I think his plate discipline issues probably would have kept him from being an every day player.

As I recall Brooks Kieschnick (did I spell that right?) was used somewhat similarly too, as a mop up reliever that also pinch hit.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Also, how great is Ferrell's 1935 season?

As a pitcher:
25-14, 3.52 ERA, 322.1 innings (led AL), 134 ERA+, 1.38 WHIP, 8.4 WAR, 31 complete games (led AL)

As a hitter:
.347/.427/.533, 13 XBH (7 home runs), 32 RBIs, 2.6 WAR in 179 plate appearances

It's not the kind of thing that's worth whining about at this point, but I would have no problem with Wes in the Hall of Fame.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I bow to your knowledge of the situation. I don’t remember the specifics of the situation. I remember there was talk about his ability to go both ways, but with very limited internet at the time (I was still a year or two away from becoming a regular on AOL’s sport forum in its early BBS days, I think), I am not even sure where I got my baseball news at the time (Baseball Weekly?? USA Today?? ESPN??).

Haha, well to be honest I apparently don't remember it that well either! Hell, I remembered it as a safety thing but it appears that wasn't the case (although I'd be surprised if the risk didn't play a factor at all).

But yeah, I think it was always gonna be one or the other but not both.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Also, how great is Ferrell's 1935 season?

As a pitcher:
25-14, 3.52 ERA, 322.1 innings (led AL), 134 ERA+, 1.38 WHIP, 8.4 WAR, 31 complete games (led AL)

As a hitter:
.347/.427/.533, 13 XBH (7 home runs), 32 RBIs, 2.6 WAR in 179 plate appearances

Sim league MONSTER

 

[JohnU]

Also, how great is Ferrell's 1935 season?

As a pitcher:
25-14, 3.52 ERA, 322.1 innings (led AL), 134 ERA+, 1.38 WHIP, 8.4 WAR, 31 complete games (led AL)

As a hitter:
.347/.427/.533, 13 XBH (7 home runs), 32 RBIs, 2.6 WAR in 179 plate appearances

Check out who his catcher was.

 

[navamind]

Check out who his catcher was.

There were a few games in 1936 where they batted back-to-back.

1936 Boston Red Sox Batting Orders | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[MilkSpiller22]

the problem is of course money... No team is going to LET a good SP hit everyday... the player can not risk injury... No team is going to let a good hitter pitch, for the same reason...

the only way he can be a 2 way player is if he isn't great at either... and if that is true, then the hype for him would be over... there will never be a Steve Nebraska...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

There were a few games in 1936 where they batted back-to-back.

1936 Boston Red Sox Batting Orders | Baseball-Reference.com

I also like Lefty O'Doul

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Without reading most of this thread, I don’t think Otani cares about money right now. I think he’s looking for a team that will utilize him in the field, at the plate, and on the mound. I honestly think that’s he only reason the Cubs are on his short list. Because Maddon wouldn’t hesitate to use him in the field. Most other managers would.

 

[JohnU]

Without reading most of this thread, I don’t think Otani cares about money right now. I think he’s looking for a team that will utilize him in the field, at the plate, and on the mound. I honestly think that’s he only reason the Cubs are on his short list. Because Maddon wouldn’t hesitate to use him in the field. Most other managers would.

I think it's worth noting that if anything changes in baseball, it's managers. If a player is pinning his future on that, there are some pretty good examples of good managers not being retained. Maddon looks long-term with the Cubs, if you consider long-term to be anything resembling the time it will take this kid to reach his prime.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I think it's worth noting that if anything changes in baseball, it's managers. If a player is pinning his future on that, there are some pretty good examples of good managers not being retained. Maddon looks long-term with the Cubs, if you consider long-term to be anything resembling the time it will take this kid to reach his prime.

I get what your saying, but this kid is t looking for a team he’s going to grow old with. He’s looking for a team in which he can prove he can play each position. If he can prove to be a good hitting and defensive outfielder while being an ace every 5th day, he would be in for an astronomical contract. I think his goal is to use this next contract he will sign to prove he has to skills to get a contract equivalent to Bryce harpers combined with kershaw. In short, he’s trying to prove he can excel in both positions so he can get the largest contract, by far, that the mlb has seen.

 

[JohnU]

I get what your saying, but this kid is t looking for a team he’s going to grow old with. He’s looking for a team in which he can prove he can play each position. If he can prove to be a good hitting and defensive outfielder while being an ace every 5th day, he would be in for an astronomical contract. I think his goal is to use this next contract he will sign to prove he has to skills to get a contract equivalent to Bryce harpers combined with kershaw. In short, he’s trying to prove he can excel in both positions so he can get the largest contract, by far, that the mlb has seen.

Well in the history of baseball, only 1 guy ever came close to that. I am curious that it will happen twice. But if that's the narrative, fine. I also know that the only other person ever to come close to this eventually had to choose between the outfield and pitching -- he didn't do both. I don't like this kid's odds of being the Steve Nebraska of Japan in MLB. So I really don't think what he wants to prove has any bearing on what happens. He hasn't shown he can play big-league ball.
So color my attitude ... generously skeptical.

I also think the term "ace" is pretty hard to define but I didn't think he wanted an astronomical contract.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Without reading most of this thread, I don’t think Otani cares about money right now. I think he’s looking for a team that will utilize him in the field, at the plate, and on the mound. I honestly think that’s he only reason the Cubs are on his short list. Because Maddon wouldn’t hesitate to use him in the field. Most other managers would.

Would it even be Maddon's call though?

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Would it even be Maddon's call though?

I think otani would definitely get SOME OF time on the cubs. I mean he played travis wood out there. He wouldn’t be an every day starter in the OF, but I could easily see him playing outfield once or twice a week.

If this guy pans out as a pitcher, fielder, and hitter, the opportunities are endless. If I had someone with his talents, I’d almost try to put him in he pen. Have him play outfield for lefty pitchers and if the opposing team has a big righty bat coming up, throw otani in to pitch against him. It’s unorthodox, but if you can get that to work, you have a leg up on every team in the league come playoff time. As a cubs fan, that means Lester or Q playing outfield for an out or two, which is scary.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Well in the history of baseball, only 1 guy ever came close to that. I am curious that it will happen twice. But if that's the narrative, fine. I also know that the only other person ever to come close to this eventually had to choose between the outfield and pitching -- he didn't do both. I don't like this kid's odds of being the Steve Nebraska of Japan in MLB. So I really don't think what he wants to prove has any bearing on what happens. He hasn't shown he can play big-league ball.
So color my attitude ... generously skeptical.

I also think the term "ace" is pretty hard to define but I didn't think he wanted an astronomical contract.

I totally agree with everything you said, but managers may look at this kid and say, he’s one or the other, if he tries both he will be oft injured and not excel at either. They probably don’t even want to chance it. If he can land in a situation where he would get an opportunity to showcase all of his talents, I think he would take it. I think that’s what he’s looking for. He just wants a team that will try it out. If it pans out, all the money he lost by coming the mlb early will be recovered and then some by the time he gets to sign his big contract.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I think otani would definitely get SOME OF time on the cubs. I mean he played travis wood out there. He wouldn’t be an every day starter in the OF, but I could easily see him playing outfield once or twice a week.

If this guy pans out as a pitcher, fielder, and hitter, the opportunities are endless. If I had someone with his talents, I’d almost try to put him in he pen. Have him play outfield for lefty pitchers and if the opposing team has a big righty bat coming up, throw otani in to pitch against him. It’s unorthodox, but if you can get that to work, you have a leg up on every team in the league come playoff time. As a cubs fan, that means Lester or Q playing outfield for an out or two, which is scary.

Neither of us know what the Cubs have already decided amongst themselves of course, but personally if I was in the front office I would view "hey, can I use Travis Wood in the outfield for 5 innings a year if I have an appropriate platoon scenario?" as a very different question than "can I use our #1 starter in the outfield for 50-60 games or so?".

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Neither of us know what the Cubs have already decided amongst themselves of course, but personally if I was in the front office I would view "hey, can I use Travis Wood in the outfield for 5 innings a year if I have an appropriate platoon scenario?" as a very different question than "can I use our #1 starter in the outfield for 50-60 games or so?".

It worked for him in japan. If it works here he’s a lot more valuable. I see your point, but I still think Maddon would entertain the idea. Otani would have to be really good at both. I could see him having a role where he pitches out of the outfield. I think he makes a much more intriguing reliever than starter if he were going to both field and pitch.