Shohei Ohtani

[dougplayer]

He wants to be in classy place like detriot

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I would love to see him go to the cubs. I feel like Maddon would utilize him in the outfield more than other managers. He wouldn’t play every day, but having that flexibility is nice.

 

[navamind]

He wants to be in classy place like detriot

As evident by Detroit being one of the seven finalists.













Oh.

 

[navamind]

It surprises me NL teams don't try to develop more two way players. Having a guy capable of pitching and hitting at the major league level would give you a lot of roster flexibility even if they're not exceptional at either.

fwiw, here's his ZiPS projections as a hitter and pitcher.

Shohei Ohtani Projection and Comparables | FanGraphs Fantasy Baseball

 

[calsnowskier]

It surprises me NL teams don't try to develop more two way players. Having a guy capable of pitching and hitting at the major league level would give you a lot of roster flexibility even if they're not exceptional at either.

fwiw, here's his ZiPS projections as a hitter and pitcher.

Shohei Ohtani Projection and Comparables | FanGraphs Fantasy Baseball

While I think a true 2-way player is a rarity, I agree that there can/should be more guys who at least dabble. Heck, Bum can legit DH. The Padres had a guy who tried the 2-way thing last year. Olerud was drafted with the intention of giving him a real shot at it, but his bat was good enough that the Jays decided he should dedicate himself to offense.

 

[JohnU]

It surprises me NL teams don't try to develop more two way players. Having a guy capable of pitching and hitting at the major league level would give you a lot of roster flexibility even if they're not exceptional at either.

A lot of guys who get drafted high are good at both hitting and pitching. They just choose one at some point.
Reds have Hunter Greene who they are letting do both for the moment but I'd say they need pitching more than they need a SS.

Mike Leake was a real good hitter until he stopped working on it.

 

[navamind]

A lot of guys who get drafted high are good at both hitting and pitching. They just choose one at some point.
Reds have Hunter Greene who they are letting do both for the moment but I'd say they need pitching more than they need a SS.

Mike Leake was a real good hitter until he stopped working on it.

I don't even mean as an everyday player either, just every few days. But I think there'd be a lot of value in having a pitcher that can play a position and give you 150-200 plate appearances of respectable production. It could allow teams to carry an extra position player or even another reliever. I think that could be really useful in the postseason.

 

[DragonfromTO]

While I think a true 2-way player is a rarity, I agree that there can/should be more guys who at least dabble. Heck, Bum can legit DH. The Padres had a guy who tried the 2-way thing last year. Olerud was drafted with the intention of giving him a real shot at it, but his bat was good enough that the Jays decided he should dedicate himself to offense.

The Olerud decision was a safety thing, wasn't it?

 

[calsnowskier]

The Olerud decision was a safety thing, wasn't it?

That was why he wore the special hat in the field, but I don’t remember it being part of the decision on his career path. He was absolutely drafted to do both.

You may remember the details better than I, though.

 

[JohnU]

I don't even mean as an everyday player either, just every few days. But I think there'd be a lot of value in having a pitcher that can play a position and give you 150-200 plate appearances of respectable production. It could allow teams to carry an extra position player or even another reliever. I think that could be really useful in the postseason.

I'd have to see said roster before I could say it's useful, although in the NL, there are 5 to 7 roster spots made up of middle relievers who might get 2 at-bats in their whole career. Again, if the guy isn't working on his hitting, he's still a guy who used to be a pretty good hitter. The norm in the league are around .280 hitters. Maybe finding a pretty good hitter who can throw a couple of innings would help, but I'd guess such a player would still need to get his pitching work in.
I guess my point is, even Ruth had to choose and the money at that time suggested chicks preferring the long ball.
I would imagine Shotani will find a similar structure. There just isn't a good way at the TOP level to do both. The metrics won't allow it. In the minors, yeah ... but that also depends. You want your top pitching prospect playing 2nd base 4 days a week?
I am not sure that a 2-day player would do much to the roster. I'd prefer them just add a 26th roster spot in the NL -- or stop fucking around and add the DH.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I so hope he tears his achilles playing the OF

 

[scoutyjones2]

I so hope he tears his achilles playing the OF

You're and asshole

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

You're and asshole

Fuck Him

 

[DragonfromTO]

That was why he wore the special hat in the field, but I don’t remember it being part of the decision on his career path. He was absolutely drafted to do both.

You may remember the details better than I, though.

The thing that seems off about the way you described it is that he went straight to the majors (as a first baseman) from the draft, so when/how could the Jays have reevaluated their intentions for him? And if they let just a couple of workouts dissuade them then they couldn't have been very gung ho about the idea in the first place.

The way I recall it they weren't certain when they drafted him where he was gonna play/develop, but that it would be one or the other rather than both.

 

[DragonfromTO]

One guy that often seems to be forgotten is Dave Winfield. He was an incredible pitcher for the Gophers.

 

[The Derski]

A lot of guys who get drafted high are good at both hitting and pitching. They just choose one at some point.
Reds have Hunter Greene who they are letting do both for the moment but I'd say they need pitching more than they need a SS.

Mike Leake was a real good hitter until he stopped working on it.

Micah Owings is a better example than Leake.

 

[navamind]

Micah Owings is a better example than Leake.

Agreed. Career .283/.310/.502 hitter with an OPS+ of 106. Owings did try to transition to the outfield in the minors a few years ago, but it didn't go too well (.252/.296/.444 across Rookie ball/AA/AAA with 14/92 BB/K). His power could have made him a decent bat off the bench, but I think his plate discipline issues probably would have kept him from being an every day player.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Agreed. Career .283/.310/.502 hitter with an OPS+ of 106. Owings did try to transition to the outfield in the minors a few years ago, but it didn't go too well (.252/.296/.444 across Rookie ball/AA/AAA with 14/92 BB/K). His power could have made him a decent bat off the bench, but I think his plate discipline issues probably would have kept him from being an every day player.

Funny thing is you know all these pitcher were prob the best hitters on their team in LL and in High School

I guess its in college where they focus completely on the craft of pitching and lose their ability to hit on the highest level

Im sure teams wouldnt be opposed to the 2 way players, but is anyone really worthy?

They talk about NL pitchers hitting above .200 as "Great hitting pitchers"

I just dont know if we will find that guy worthy of a true spot in the lineup

 

[navamind]

Funny thing is you know all these pitcher were prob the best hitters on their team in LL and in High School

I guess its in college where they focus completely on the craft of pitching and lose their ability to hit on the highest level

Im sure teams wouldnt be opposed to the 2 way players, but is anyone really worthy?

They talk about NL pitchers hitting above .200 as "Great hitting pitchers"

I just dont know if we will find that guy worthy of a true spot in the lineup

The only leagues that really let pitchers bat are at AA and AAA. And even then, I think pitchers only bat when both teams are NL affiliates.

 

[calsnowskier]

The thing that seems off about the way you described it is that he went straight to the majors (as a first baseman) from the draft, so when/how could the Jays have reevaluated their intentions for him? And if they let just a couple of workouts dissuade them then they couldn't have been very gung ho about the idea in the first place.

The way I recall it they weren't certain when they drafted him where he was gonna play/develop, but that it would be one or the other rather than both.

I bow to your knowledge of the situation. I don’t remember the specifics of the situation. I remember there was talk about his ability to go both ways, but with very limited internet at the time (I was still a year or two away from becoming a regular on AOL’s sport forum in its early BBS days, I think), I am not even sure where I got my baseball news at the time (Baseball Weekly?? USA Today?? ESPN??).