Shaq: Dwight couldn't handle LA

[Flauge]

Would have been nice if he had figured that out while still with the Lakers!!

he knew it while he played. he was just lazy. it's easy to say you should have worked harder after it's done. hey guys, i should have worked harder in high school and college and been a doctor. see... easy to do.

 

[jayviabay]

Dwight took a team to the finals as the lead man. That team wasnt that good. Hedo, jameer, Rashard lewis.. Dwight does need someone else. But i do think Dwight can be the lead man and win a title. Not sure it will happen, but I do think it could.

guys like carmelo or amar'e are guys i would say would never lead a team to the title (sorry doors). superstar players who dont play defense and are selfish are the type of superstars i think are most likely to end up ringless. dwight isnt like that.

I think you have to also weigh in the demeanor and personality of the coach. Under woodson, carmelo seems to have woken up a little bit on the defensive end of the floor. That being said, i dont see them either leading anyone to a championship.

 

[trojanfan12]

Dwight took a team to the finals as the lead man. That team wasnt that good. Hedo, jameer, Rashard lewis.. Dwight does need someone else. But i do think Dwight can be the lead man and win a title. Not sure it will happen, but I do think it could.

guys like carmelo or amar'e are guys i would say would never lead a team to the title (sorry doors). superstar players who dont play defense and are selfish are the type of superstars i think are most likely to end up ringless. dwight isnt like that.

There is a distinct difference between leading a team to the finals in Orlando and leading the team in Los Angeles. In Orlando, getting to the playoffs and making a decent run, was good enough!! Getting to the finals was unexpected and made him a hero there. With the Lakers, getting to the finals is expected and you better win more title series than you lose. It's a different pressure.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Let's not forget we had Ariza lighting up the playoffs that year and he was acting as our best perimeter defender behind Kobe. Not to mention Roider Jameer was hurt. We were so much better than Orlando it wasn't even funny.

 

[starbigd]

Man, I was called the biggest hater in the world when I predicted before the season started that the Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs.

I just saw a team that had a LOT of holes.......holes that they didn't address. Adding big names didn't address the lack of perimeter defense, the lack of an ability to fast break or defend in transition, or the coaching woes I saw.

It's going to be interesting next season. I think they'll play better without Kobe initially as guys not used to getting minutes gel. Then Kobe will come back and destroy all that chemistry. He's becoming Carmelo to me now.......his inability to play with others is starting to hurt the Lakers but most will never admit it.

 

[jayviabay]

Man, I was called the biggest hater in the world when I predicted before the season started that the Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs.

I just saw a team that had a LOT of holes.......holes that they didn't address. Adding big names didn't address the lack of perimeter defense, the lack of an ability to fast break or defend in transition, or the coaching woes I saw.

It's going to be interesting next season. I think they'll play better without Kobe initially as guys not used to getting minutes gel. Then Kobe will come back and destroy all that chemistry. He's becoming Carmelo to me now.......his inability to play with others is starting to hurt the Lakers but most will never admit it.

why do you abuse this word so much? before posters came over from CBS, the basketball forum was dead. so, you have to be talking about sman and guys you know of the boards? right? no lakers fan on here besides SMAN will debate this with you. stop exaggerating

 

[trojanfan12]

Man, I was called the biggest hater in the world when I predicted before the season started that the Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs.

I just saw a team that had a LOT of holes.......holes that they didn't address. Adding big names didn't address the lack of perimeter defense, the lack of an ability to fast break or defend in transition, or the coaching woes I saw.

It's going to be interesting next season. I think they'll play better without Kobe initially as guys not used to getting minutes gel. Then Kobe will come back and destroy all that chemistry. He's becoming Carmelo to me now.......his inability to play with others is starting to hurt the Lakers but most will never admit it.

Don't sell yourself short, you were called the biggest hater in the world way before that!!

j/k!!

 

[Black Adam]

Don't sell yourself short, you were called the biggest hater in the world way before that!!

j/k!!

no comment...!!!

 

[Flauge]

There is a distinct difference between leading a team to the finals in Orlando and leading the team in Los Angeles. In Orlando, getting to the playoffs and making a decent run, was good enough!! Getting to the finals was unexpected and made him a hero there. With the Lakers, getting to the finals is expected and you better win more title series than you lose. It's a different pressure.

that's just not true. leading a team to the finals is the same thing in orlando, milwaukee, miami, or LA. you have to win in the playoffs. the fans dont play the games. fan pressure..blah blah blah. getting to the finals in LA is not expected. Do you expect them to make it there this year?

 

[starbigd]

why do you abuse this word so much? before posters came over from CBS, the basketball forum was dead. so, you have to be talking about sman and guys you know of the boards? right? no lakers fan on here besides SMAN will debate this with you. stop exaggerating

It's been my experience that most Lakers fans I know think Kobe is GOD in sneakers. You can't EVER point out a flaw in his game.......that's heresy.

The whole point of this board is to debate. I try to do so without insulting others unless they post something REALLY stupid or personal.

Anyway, I think if Kobe realistically wants another ring, he's going to have to learn to do something that he really never has......TRUST his teammates.

 

[shitsho]

I can't speak for all Laker fans, but for myself and my friends who are Laker fans we were the "cautiously optimistic" that I mentioned in my previous post!! The majority of the folks calling in to the talk shows out here ranged from the cautious to the we don't want him. There were, of course, a few who thought getting him meant instant title, but overall, Laker fans were pretty lukewarm.

I was of the mindset that I was hoping he's buy into being a Laker and all that it means and that he would look at the trophies and great Laker centers of the past and want to be part of all of that, that it would motivate him.

As the season wore on, it became apparent that even if he decided to stay, he was not going to be the one who could lead the Lakers to more titles. If he stayed, the Lakers were still going to need a player that could actually lead the team. I saw nothing from Dwight last season that showed he could be that guy!!

I get what you are saying. To me the Lakers and Boston both put an emphasis on getting players that either are already leaders or aspire to be. That quality is held in higher regard to both franchise IMO than others. It seems short Buss at least got the memo on that one. Howard has shown that he at least has the aspirations to be a leader. It is up to the franchise to assist him in developing that part of himself if they traded for him.

 

[shitsho]

If Kobe really did say what was reported, the only problem that I can see is that Kobe told him what he NEEDED to hear, rather than what he WANTED to hear!!

Sounds good in theory but you see the results. What people need to hear and being diplomatic about how you put it are 2 different things. People have to hear and believe that you care about their success before they buy anything else you may say. Kobe could have put that in a way that made Howard feel less like a pawn and more like a valued member of a team with championship aspirations.

 

[Black Adam]

Sounds good in theory but you see the results. What people need to hear and being diplomatic about how you put it are 2 different things. People have to hear and believe that you care about their success before they buy anything else you may say. Kobe could have put that in a way that made Howard feel less like a pawn and more like a valued member of a team with championship aspirations.

as someone who deals with a helluva lotta people, i'd have to concur. people do need to hear the truth, but there's a right way and a wrong way to come at folks...

 

[shitsho]

it seems kobe never really liked shaq because of his work ethic but yet they went to 4 straight finals together winning three championships. would you categorize that, as Kobe didnt have any options so he had to make the best of it?

Kobe had options but none of them were more attractive than what he currently had. He had the most dominant big man in the league, the best coach, to him the best franchise, and he had none of the pressure to carry the team. He had HOFers all around him teaching him what he needed to know. Kobe was only paying his dues in the best position a young player in the NBA could be in.

 

[trojanfan12]

that's just not true. leading a team to the finals is the same thing in orlando, milwaukee, miami, or LA. you have to win in the playoffs. the fans dont play the games. fan pressure..blah blah blah. getting to the finals in LA is not expected. Do you expect them to make it there this year?

That's where you're wrong!! Ask anyone who has ever played for the Lakers and they will tell you that there is a difference. Hell, Shaq played in both Orlando and L.A., just like Dwight did and says there is a difference!!

Dwight was even quoted as saying that Laker fans love you when you're winning and really get on you when you're not!!

And yes, for a player like Dwight, getting to the finals IS expected!! Laker fans expected them to get to the finals last year and would be expecting them to get their if Dwight came back!!

As it stands now, of course Laker fans don't expect them to get to the finals next year, Kobe is coming off of the worst injury of his career and Dwight didn't re-sign!!

However, the next superstar that the Lakers sign WILL be expected to get them to the finals and if management doesn't get the players necessary to get them to the finals in the next 2 years or so, there will be tremendous pressure placed on the organization to get something done!!

The Laker fanbase is extremely spoiled and used to getting our way!! You can thank Dr. Buss for that!!

 

[trojanfan12]

It's been my experience that most Lakers fans I know think Kobe is GOD in sneakers. You can't EVER point out a flaw in his game.......that's heresy.

The whole point of this board is to debate. I try to do so without insulting others unless they post something REALLY stupid or personal.

Anyway, I think if Kobe realistically wants another ring, he's going to have to learn to do something that he really never has......TRUST his teammates.

There are many of those, however, there are also plenty like me!! I support Kobe because he's a Laker and I'm a Laker fan. However, he is not even my favorite current Laker. I respect his dedication to the game and the championships that he helped bring to the Lakers.

I am also well aware of, and often get frustrated with, his shortcomings as a player and teammate!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Sounds good in theory but you see the results. What people need to hear and being diplomatic about how you put it are 2 different things. People have to hear and believe that you care about their success before they buy anything else you may say. Kobe could have put that in a way that made Howard feel less like a pawn and more like a valued member of a team with championship aspirations.

I agree. The problem that we have is that there are about 3 different versions of what was and was not said.

The initial reports were all about Kobe basically insulting him and telling him that he's not a leader, but Kobe can teach him how to be a leader. Those reports had Kobe coming off as condescending and treating Dwight like a child.

Then other reports came out that had what Kobe said sounding much more diplomatic than the initial reports.

Then Dwight said that Kobe never said any of that!!

So really, the only ones who know what was said were those in the meeting and none of them seem to be talking!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Kobe had options but none of them were more attractive than what he currently had. He had the most dominant big man in the league, the best coach, to him the best franchise, and he had none of the pressure to carry the team. He had HOFers all around him teaching him what he needed to know. Kobe was only paying his dues in the best position a young player in the NBA could be in.

Then it would seem the difference is that Kobe was willing to pay his dues to be a champion and Dwight, thus far, has not been willing!!

 

[jayviabay]

It's been my experience that most Lakers fans I know think Kobe is GOD in sneakers. You can't EVER point out a flaw in his game.......that's heresy.

The whole point of this board is to debate. I try to do so without insulting others unless they post something REALLY stupid or personal.

Anyway, I think if Kobe realistically wants another ring, he's going to have to learn to do something that he really never has......TRUST his teammates.

couldnt agree more!

Like Trojan, I only support him because he is a Laker and he did help bring championships to the squad. If he would of became a better teammate along the way of becoming a champion, he might have experienced even more success