shanahan's record

[skinsdad62]

Where does Shanahan rank during his time in Washington? | Fanspeak Washington Redskins Blog

not good and this is where playing the young guys may not happen (even if you think it should )

 

[skinz2winz]

Where does Shanahan rank during his time in Washington? | Fanspeak Washington Redskins Blog

not good and this is where playing the young guys may not happen (even if you think it should )

The Redskins are currently above 9 teams in winning percentage and tied with Dolphins. And among those teams there is a pretty good chance that the Dolphins, Cardinals, Panthers and even the Raiders could end the season with a 4 year higher winning percentage. This is not good company to keep.
The Redskins have the worst NFC East record over this time period, despite the fact that two of the other teams have undergone coaching changes since the start of 2010. Even in a down NFC East the Redskins have dug themselves a major hole. If the Redskins finish this season on a 7-0 run Mike Shanahan's winning percentage in DC would be sub .500 at .484. That is just unacceptable for one of the league's top 5 highest paid coaches. The Redskins should expect more regardless of what issues a team is facing.
People want to blame the cap penalty, or injuries, but many of these teams listed have similar sob stories over these past four years. It is clear that Mike Shanhan's 5 year plan has failed and the Redskins need to start holding people accountable. If Mike Shanahan doesn't finish at least 8-8, it's tough to make a case that he deserves a 5th year just based solely on his record relative to the rest of the league during his tenure here.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Where does Shanahan rank during his time in Washington? | Fanspeak Washington Redskins Blog

not good and this is where playing the young guys may not happen (even if you think it should )

Yep - this is tricky. Are we to just assume that this is just a bump in the road and primarily cap related? My fear is that they make adjustments & still have problems next season. What then?

I truly believe that a lot of organizations would ask Shanahan to fire some of his assts or else. However - you know that he won't fire his son & more than likely would not do so for Haslett or Burns. I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

Shanahan has done a lot of good things during his time with this team. However - that doesn't mean that he is immune to criticism nor untouchable. You have to ask yourself is the current coaching staff the best one possible at this time & also should the head coach also be the primary one making the personnel decisions. I have my doubts.

 

[skinsdad62]

Yep - this is tricky. Are we to just assume that this is just a bump in the road and primarily cap related? My fear is that they make adjustments & still have problems next season. What then?

I truly believe that a lot of organizations would ask Shanahan to fire some of his assts or else. However - you know that he won't fire his son & more than likely would not do so for Haslett or Burns. I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

Shanahan has done a lot of good things during his time with this team. However - that doesn't mean that he is immune to criticism nor untouchable. You have to ask yourself is the current coaching staff the best one possible at this time & also should the head coach also be the primary one making the personnel decisions. I have my doubts.

i think during his tenure there have been unusual things happening and to dismiss it as "a sob story " doesnt cut it .

however the record is there and i feel that unless a young guy is clearly better then an established veteran that guy wont be experimented with

so i doubt you see a jackson or B jenkins , a gettis , a Ribeye , etc in order to see what we have when the HC could be gone do to his record

the next question is whom do you bring in ? the fact that snyder gave shanahan 4 years time could work in our favor . does bruce allen go as well ?

 

[skinsdad62]

At 3-6 Once More, It's Hard To Think Mike Shanahan Will Be Here in 2014

here is some more evidence however some of it is melodramatic

 

[SoCalWizFan]

i think during his tenure there have been unusual things happening and to dismiss it as "a sob story " doesnt cut it .

however the record is there and i feel that unless a young guy is clearly better then an established veteran that guy wont be experimented with

so i doubt you see a jackson or B jenkins , a gettis , a Ribeye , etc in order to see what we have when the HC could be gone do to his record

the next question is whom do you bring in ? the fact that snyder gave shanahan 4 years time could work in our favor . does bruce allen go as well ?

As I have stated before - if/when they get rid of Shanahan they should replace him with two people - one that is strictly a coach & another one that is a personnel guy. In most situations having the same person perform both functions is not a good thing. This is assuming that Allen is still in place & not performing most of the personnel duties. If Allen goes then you replace him with a GM.

Also - when the time comes - resist the temptation of hiring some high profile, older, ex-coach. They don't need a Cowher, Gruden or Dungy. These type of coaches don't have that great of a track record & will most likely demand complete control of the team. I would rather see a younger, successful asst coach take over.

 

[gkekoa]

Shanahan is the best coach this team has had in 13 years. He actually won a division title.

From there, he's had to deal with the worst personnel to ever be inherited and a BS 36 million dollar cap penalty.

 

[Sharkinva]

Main problem with a new coach right now is....

1. It sets RG3 back more so than bringing him forward. Our offense isnt bad, its just inconsistent. A new system likely will do more harm than good. Especially since odds are a new coach might go away from his strengths.

2. While the defense needs a change, I really think its more talent than system. Haslett hasnt done a great job, but if you hand an average cook premium ingredients he will likely make a palatable meal. Hand that same cook a pack of oodles of noodles and some ground beef, and you really cant expect much more than what you gave him. Haslett has had some good moments and bad, but we have been forced to start some guys that should be backups more often than not on the defense.

I say see where this season goes, give Shanahan and company a full offseason with a full budget and see where we get next year. Give him a three year eztention with the last two years being buy in options which would be fair to both sides. Sure we might pay him a little heavy for 2014 and 2015, but it would be the best case scenario as the other option is likely throwing $8 million a year at a college coach.

 

[Shenanihanigans]

It's hard to know what to do with the shannys. On the one hand, I agree with everything the OP wrote about other teams starting over, and having better winning percentages than the shannys do over the same time period.

On the other hand, I know that none of those other coaches got hosed by Mara with his bullshit cap penalties. It's hard to argue that the redskins could have gotten markedly better while being hamstrung by the cap penalty and the lack of first rounders, due to RG3 (and not having a qb before that, due to cerrotten).

Unless the team totally tanks, i think you definitely keep the shannys around for another year, with some free agency additions, an offseason to mentor rg3, fix holes, etc. I'd tell shanny that we'll negotiate after the season on an extension, and that getting to the playoffs are the minimum that is acceptable in order for him to get an extension.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Main problem with a new coach right now is....

1. It sets RG3 back more so than bringing him forward. Our offense isnt bad, its just inconsistent. A new system likely will do more harm than good. Especially since odds are a new coach might go away from his strengths.

2. While the defense needs a change, I really think its more talent than system. Haslett hasnt done a great job, but if you hand an average cook premium ingredients he will likely make a palatable meal. Hand that same cook a pack of oodles of noodles and some ground beef, and you really cant expect much more than what you gave him. Haslett has had some good moments and bad, but we have been forced to start some guys that should be backups more often than not on the defense.

I say see where this season goes, give Shanahan and company a full offseason with a full budget and see where we get next year. Give him a three year eztention with the last two years being buy in options which would be fair to both sides. Sure we might pay him a little heavy for 2014 and 2015, but it would be the best case scenario as the other option is likely throwing $8 million a year at a college coach.

Again - I could go either way on a lot of this. As for # 2 - why does it have to be an either/or situation? Since there is not much talent on the defense what would be the harm in replacing the coach as well as many of the players? It is hard to use the "Yeah - but they would be starting from ground zero" argument when the defense basically stinks (except for in spurts & occasionally forcing turnovers). If they can Haslett over the offseason I won't be losing any sleep.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Shanahan is the best coach this team has had in 13 years. He actually won a division title.

From there, he's had to deal with the worst personnel to ever be inherited and a BS 36 million dollar cap penalty.

Probably true but look at the comparisons. Beyond Gibbs II (where the problem was mainly that Gibbs was also given GM duties which was a mistake) you are talking about some poor coaches - Spurrier, Zorn. This was also mainly during the time where Snyder participated in personnel decisions (which Shanahan helped end - I still believe that is his greatest contribution to date).

I completely agree with your statement & that Shanahan has done some very good things. However - just not sure he is the best coach moving forward - we will see. I also agree with your second statement, but there is no guarantee that things will be corrected simply because of additional cap space.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again - I could go either way on a lot of this. As for # 2 - why does it have to be an either/or situation? Since there is not much talent on the defense what would be the harm in replacing the coach as well as many of the players? It is hard to use the "Yeah - but they would be starting from ground zero" argument when the defense basically stinks (except for in spurts & occasionally forcing turnovers). If they can Haslett over the offseason I won't be losing any sleep.

Oh I dont have a problem with Haslett going in the off season. I do have a serious issue with whole sale change at this point. Sure we could improve with a new coaching staff from top to bottom. But we could seriously regress and run the risk of Danny going back to his old ways. The team needs a coach and head man who Dan wont meddle with. We need a level of stability because seriously the last three and a half years have basically been trying to recover from the previous 10 years of mismanagement.

 

[skinz2winz]

Oh I dont have a problem with Haslett going in the off season. I do have a serious issue with whole sale change at this point. Sure we could improve with a new coaching staff from top to bottom. But we could seriously regress and run the risk of Danny going back to his old ways. The team needs a coach and head man who Dan wont meddle with. We need a level of stability because seriously the last three and a half years have basically been trying to recover from the previous 10 years of mismanagement.

I think Dan has learned his lesson since hiring Shanahan and has been hands off. I think a coach who handles all personnel duties would benefit the team as well. I'm not an Allen fan who has rode his Daddy's coat tails into the profession. Would a guy like Gruden be interested? I think so if he has all say in personnel decisions. This team needs a veteran coach with a veteran approach who is used to winning. A coach who won't have tolerance for players and coaches who are not "ALL IN". The "Finer Details" when you football games and when you refuse to change because maybe your Son is a coach, or you coached a player on your former team, or the DC is a really good guy, then you may meet your demise. We all know this is a league of 'What have you done for me lately', and while a division title is not so long ago, 3-6 is starring you in the face yet again with an even tougher schedule than last year looming ahead.

 

[skinsdad62]

Oh I dont have a problem with Haslett going in the off season. I do have a serious issue with whole sale change at this point. Sure we could improve with a new coaching staff from top to bottom. But we could seriously regress and run the risk of Danny going back to his old ways. The team needs a coach and head man who Dan wont meddle with. We need a level of stability because seriously the last three and a half years have basically been trying to recover from the previous 10 years of mismanagement.

so much catch up and so many unusual things going on

 

[skinz2winz]

Oh I dont have a problem with Haslett going in the off season. I do have a serious issue with whole sale change at this point. Sure we could improve with a new coaching staff from top to bottom. But we could seriously regress and run the risk of Danny going back to his old ways. The team needs a coach and head man who Dan wont meddle with. We need a level of stability because seriously the last three and a half years have basically been trying to recover from the previous 10 years of mismanagement.

Then demand Shanahan bring in a new defensive coordinator with 4-3 experience...

 

[j_y19]

I think the jury is still out on mike. He has done some very good things for this franchise. He has instilled discipline and respectability. He has added talent, in spite of challenges in the offseason between cap penalties and strikes. However, we still are a losing team. We still make bone headed mistakes including clock mismanagement, wasting time outs, devastating penalties, and sometimes questionable play calling at critical times.

I think we need to let this season play out. If he can salvage the season to finish respectably, I think you give him a small extension as suggested by one of the earlier posters. As for the other coaches, while i really question haslett's ability, you can't pull the rug from mike, like Jerry jones did in Dallas. But make it clear that if Haslett continues to fail, it will be a reflection on mike and his tenure here.

One interesting thought is does mike even want an extension? Is his heart in this? Was he hoping to get out after 5 years and turn the reigns over to Kyle? How would you feel about Kyle taking over at this point? I'm not comfortable with that thought at this time.

 

[skinsdad62]

Then demand Shanahan bring in a new defensive coordinator with 4-3 experience...

going back to the 4-3 means another 2 year setback . that wont happen never mind the fact that Rak nor kerrigan have played 4-3 de as pro's and i doubt that magically by putting their hands in the dirt turns them into 15 sack a year guys

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think Dan has learned his lesson since hiring Shanahan and has been hands off. I think a coach who handles all personnel duties would benefit the team as well. I'm not an Allen fan who has rode his Daddy's coat tails into the profession. Would a guy like Gruden be interested? I think so if he has all say in personnel decisions. This team needs a veteran coach with a veteran approach who is used to winning. A coach who won't have tolerance for players and coaches who are not "ALL IN". The "Finer Details" when you football games and when you refuse to change because maybe your Son is a coach, or you coached a player on your former team, or the DC is a really good guy, then you may meet your demise. We all know this is a league of 'What have you done for me lately', and while a division title is not so long ago, 3-6 is starring you in the face yet again with an even tougher schedule than last year looming ahead.

I truly don't believe you need to go that route & - again - the track record of SB winning coaches is not that great. I have real doubts whether someone like Gruden would succeed with another team. With TB he was pretty much given a team at a very high level. I also don't really see him coming back to coaching anytime soon. I also have question marks about Cowher since he only had success with one team - who knows.

As an alternative - you could hire a veteran, top notch GM (or perhaps someone that was an asst GM elsewhere). That person would then be tasked with hiring the next coach. Allen strikes me as someone who mainly handles financial matters (e.g. salary cap) and non-football matters. The true personnel decisions appear to be made by Shanahan.

Again - I am not necessarily stating that Shanahan should be gone - just that they should consider this route if/when he goes. Just a thought.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Also - if you hire someone like Gruden why would you necessarily give him the personnel role? Did he have that role with his other teams? That type of setup didn't work for Gibbs, Holmgren and others. One of the main issues is that the coach feels compelled to play guys that he drafted often not to the benefit of the team. Given my choice I would have a separate personnel guy and coach. The best teams the Redskins ever had employed this setup with Gibbs I & Beathard.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

going back to the 4-3 means another 2 year setback . that wont happen never mind the fact that Rak nor kerrigan have played 4-3 de as pro's and i doubt that magically by putting their hands in the dirt turns them into 15 sack a year guys

You may be right, but I am confused by statements like this. 2 year setback? Setback to what? They currently are terrible - how much worse could they get?

I am not advocating a switch to a 4-3 or any other defense, but making the argument for maintaining continuity for a bad team is kind of puzzling. Again - if this is a bump in the road and they win most of the remaining games or I am missing something that will result in a good-great defense next season then - my bad - I take it back. Enlighten me (being serious).