See Game of Thrones for the First Time Again: Through My Eyes

[juliansteed]

All done... While Ramsay's demise was welcome, I still wanted something more epic... Liked that Sansa recognized that there was NO way they were getting Rickon back alive. That was kind of my assessment going into it as well... Ramsay isn't one to negotiate that kind of thing and Rickon is a direct threat to Ramsay's claim to Winterfell, so..... Yeah.

Had to read up on the significance of Brann's vision regarding Jon Snow... Oh... WOW!!! Okay, so the question wasn't just about his mother, eh? But I was kind of accidentally right about him having Targaeryan blood, so... Bonus for Payton! I don't know though, this "King in the North" thing hasn't been going so well of late. Maybe try a different title?

Baelish... Good of him to come, but can't see Sansa going for that unless it was part of the deal to acquire his help in defeating Ramsay. Obviously attacking the Boltons is in direct conflict with the Lannisters, so he seems to have made a choice for now...

Cersei... Interesting solution to the Sparrow problem... LOL!!! I can't see her surviving for long as queen though. Lots o' forces aligning against her... Won't really miss anyone that died there except Margaery, she deserved better..

Daenarys... Finally... Full-on woody at the closing scene of her, Tyrion and Verys on the ship sailing toward Westeros...

I was really really tense during the last episode wondering if Tyrion was going to make it. I thought I'd heard somewhere a comment that made it seem to me that he was gone by the end of Season 6. Glad to see that's not true...

Honestly, that is what makes this show great. No character is safe. You cannot think, "Wonder how he/she is going to get out of this one. Obviously they won't let that character die, so...". That was the brilliance of Season 1 when Nedd ate it. Did NOT see that coming. Was just like, something or someone is going to swoop in and save him, and then...... CHOP!!!! That is when I knew I was watching something different. I realize its following the books, but still....

The Iron Isles are the confusing part to me right now. Wondering where the new King there goes since his original plan was to allied with Daenarys, but Yara and Theon got there first? Hmmmmm...

Anyway, its nice to be all caught up (Though a little bitter sweet) so I can talk with the rest of youse guys over in the other thread now...

Attacking the Boltons a few seasons ago (prior to Tywin's death) would have been going against the Lannisters but not so much at this point. That alliance was made by Tywin and Roose, both of whom are dead now. Roose never trusted Cersei and bailed on that alliance pretty much after Tywin died, when he arranged to have his son marry Sansa, who was a fugitive of the Crown and Tyrion's "wife" (but never consummated). I believe this was brought up in Season 5.

There's a pretty popular theory as to what Euron's Plan B is going to be now that Theon and Yara beat him to Daenerys. There's another queen out there right now who is currently short on allies whom he might be able to arrange something with.

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to watch the series again before Season 7 starts. You'll probably find you'll pick some stuff up that you missed the first time and a lot of stuff will make more sense to you now that you are more familiar with the characters, locations, history etc. My GF and I started re-watching from Season 1 earlier this week.

 

[juliansteed]

Yeah, it's an acquired skill.

Though, in the books, it isn't Arya who bakes the pies, but Wyman Manderly (the fat northern lord who is the first to formally proclaim Jon Snow "King in the North"; both his body weight and his role get downgraded/minimized a lot from the books, wherein he's quite the badass), and the pies aren't fed to Walder Frey, who's still alive, but to several other Red Wedding conspirators, most notably Roose Bolton.

That's why you'll sometimes hear fans refer to "Manderly the Cook" and his "Manderly Pies" instead of "Arya the Cook" and her "Arya Pies":

I'm hoping to find out on the show that she did the killing and butchering but it was Hot Pie that did the actual cooking. He was last seen by both Arya and the audience at that inn in the Riverlands so not too far from the Twins.

 

[Payton]

Another question... I re-watched the last episode and figure there must be some significance to the look that Baelish is giving Sansa while everyone else is declaring Jon Snow the King in the North... Is there significance to the fact that Baelish is not standing up and declaring the Knights of the Vale as supporting Snow as "King"? Is this Baelish recognizing that with Jon Snow as the supposed "King" that Sansa is much less important? Or is this Sansa recognizing that his ambitions are going to lead him to turning on them?

Thoughts? Or is this discussed in the main thread that I can now freely read...

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

Another question... I re-watched the last episode and figure there must be some significance to the look that Baelish is giving Sansa while everyone else is declaring Jon Snow the King in the North... Is there significance to the fact that Baelish is not standing up and declaring the Knights of the Vale as supporting Snow as "King"? Is this Baelish recognizing that with Jon Snow as the supposed "King" that Sansa is much less important? Or is this Sansa recognizing that his ambitions are going to lead him to turning on them?

Thoughts? Or is this discussed in the main thread that I can now freely read...

"The books" haven't got there yet... so it's all open to speculation. But I'm fairly certain Sansa isn't blind to Baelish's ambitions - which were made pretty clear early on in the books and the series.

 

[Payton]

"The books" haven't got there yet... so it's all open to speculation. But I'm fairly certain Sansa isn't blind to Baelish's ambitions - which were made pretty clear early on in the books and the series.

Right, I see... Just looked like Sansa had some sort of realization when they exchanged glances in that scene. Wondering if I had missed something.

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

Right, I see... Just looked like Sansa had some sort of realization when they exchanged glances in that scene. Wondering if I had missed something.

The look I saw from her was an "I'm gonna have to off this bastard" look.

 

[Payton]

The look I saw from her was an "I'm gonna have to off this bastard" look.

Hmmm, I saw it as more of a stark contrast (See what I did there?) between the rest of the Lords pledging allegiance to Jon, while Little Finger sat there and said nothing... Sansa was smiling at all the other Lords until she notices Baelish kind of stewing over in the corner... She had already intimated that she is aware that Little Finger's loyalty only goes as far as it servers Little Finger, so maybe she sees that he is plotting his next move, which doesn't include remaining loyal to Jon... (As he'd already said his ambition is to Marry Sansa and sit on the Iron Throne.... Jon might get in the way of that...).

Also they may not cover it, but interested in what the Karstarks would do at this point? They helped betray Robb, backed the Boltons and now? ... Hmmmmm...

Anyway, taking alliance inventory:

We have Targaeryans, Dorne, Tyrells, Some of the Greyjoys and I'd assume Starks...

VS.

Lannister

At this point with the Iron Isles still up for grabs?

 

[BusSport]

Anyway, taking alliance inventory:

We have Targaeryans, Dorne, Tyrells, Some of the Greyjoys and I'd assume Starks...

VS.

Lannister

The Starks are not aligned with the Targaryens, at least, not currently. From Daenerys's point of view, they are usurpers/rebels/traitors.

 

[calsnowskier]

The Starks are not aligned with the Targaryens, at least, not currently. From Daenerys's point of view, they are usurpers/rebels/traitors.

You gotta suspect that Jon will be able to smooth that over and either Mary his aunt to join the families or just join the families due to his own bloodline.

Jorah may be able to get Mortmonts on board with her, and they are already loyal to Jon.

I have said for a while that I suspect Jon will stay in the North and rule there (with his pull with the Wildings, there will no longer be a need for the Wall) while Dani takes the Iron Throne.

Maybe she heads back to Easteros and leaves Tyrian in the Iron Throne, so the Targaryons will control the North, West and East.

 

[juliansteed]

Hmmm, I saw it as more of a stark contrast (See what I did there?) between the rest of the Lords pledging allegiance to Jon, while Little Finger sat there and said nothing... Sansa was smiling at all the other Lords until she notices Baelish kind of stewing over in the corner... She had already intimated that she is aware that Little Finger's loyalty only goes as far as it servers Little Finger, so maybe she sees that he is plotting his next move, which doesn't include remaining loyal to Jon... (As he'd already said his ambition is to Marry Sansa and sit on the Iron Throne.... Jon might get in the way of that...).

Also they may not cover it, but interested in what the Karstarks would do at this point? They helped betray Robb, backed the Boltons and now? ... Hmmmmm...

Anyway, taking alliance inventory:

We have Targaeryans, Dorne, Tyrells, Some of the Greyjoys and I'd assume Starks...

VS.

Lannister

At this point with the Iron Isles still up for grabs?

I think that Sansa's look was intended to be a bit ambiguous, and that the audience is supposed to be wondering/speculating what she is thinking there. So no, I don't believe you missed anything. While I think she knows that Littlefinger is manipulative is trying to drive a wedge between her and Jon, it's likely killing her to realize that despite his intentions, he might actually be right. I don't think she wants to goto war against Jon or anything but she's probably feeling a bit slighted at this point. As ridiculous as a feudalistic society is that is their reality, and she is Ned's/Robb's heir before Jon, and she knows her full brother Bran is still alive (I don't think Littlefinger knows this though) and is ahead of both of them as Ned's/Robb's heir. Also while she might trust herself not to fall for Littlefinger's games, he may very well be causing her some concern as might have her wondering who else around here is he going to try to manipulate against Jon.

As for Lannister allies, I'd look for Euron Greyjoy to align himself with Cersei. I also wouldn't be surprised if Sam's father Randyll Tarley aligns himself with Cersei despite being a Tyrell banner man. With Mace and Loras gone and Loras being Mace's only son on the show, Cersei might offer Randyll Lordship of the Reach and convince him to betray what's left of House Tyrell, much like Tywin convinced the Freys to turn on the Tulleys and the Boltons to turn on the Starks. The question then becomes how many of the other lords of the Reach would follow him if it plays out that way.

 

[juliansteed]

You gotta suspect that Jon will be able to smooth that over and either Mary his aunt to join the families or just join the families due to his own bloodline.

Jorah may be able to get Mortmonts on board with her, and they are already loyal to Jon.

I have said for a while that I suspect Jon will stay in the North and rule there (with his pull with the Wildings, there will no longer be a need for the Wall) while Dani takes the Iron Throne.

Maybe she heads back to Easteros and leaves Tyrian in the Iron Throne, so the Targaryons will control the North, West and East.

A Stark Targareyan alliance seems like it would be a natural thing. You have the Mormont cousins as you mentioned and you also have Jon and Tyrion who befriended each other during Season 1. If Melissandre ends up working with Daenerys as the new trailer suggests is a possibility, she would just have to use her old lady face and Tyrion might not want to mention Blackwater Bay around Davos, but other than that everything should be cool as far as there not being hostilities goes.

That being said, they don't really have a common enemy or agenda at this point. Jon has no interest in the Iron Throne or anything happening in King's Landing anymore. He only seemed interested in going up against the Lannisters when he could help Ned or Robb. He never seemed interested in avenging their deaths however.. His main focus is the White Walkers and then after that he might agree to help Deanerys with the Iron Throne. As of right now Daenerys knows nothing of the White Walkers and is only coming to Westeros to claim the throne. Jon and Davos are going to have to try to convince her and Tyrion of the threat to the North. I think they will eventually, which is what will give Cersei a fighting chance, but initially I don't see them agreeing on what their main objective would be if they were to become allies.

 

[juliansteed]

I think that Sansa's look was intended to be a bit ambiguous, and that the audience is supposed to be wondering/speculating what she is thinking there. So no, I don't believe you missed anything. While I think she knows that Littlefinger is manipulative is trying to drive a wedge between her and Jon, it's likely killing her to realize that despite his intentions, he might actually be right. I don't think she wants to goto war against Jon or anything but she's probably feeling a bit slighted at this point. As ridiculous as a feudalistic society is that is their reality, and she is Ned's/Robb's heir before Jon, and she knows her full brother Bran is still alive (I don't think Littlefinger knows this though) and is ahead of both of them as Ned's/Robb's heir. Also while she might trust herself not to fall for Littlefinger's games, he may very well be causing her some concern as might have her wondering who else around here is he going to try to manipulate against Jon.

Forgot to mention that part of the reason Sansa might feel slighted would also be that it was basically her obtaining the services of the knights of the Vale that won back the North for the Starks. Not to mention she was willing to put her emotions aside and realize there was no getting Rickon back and urged Jon not to fall for Ramsay's games. Jon didn't listen and it would have cost them the battle had it not been for the Vale coming to help out.

 

[Payton]

Hmmm. Hadn't thought of the angle of Sansa feeling slighted and/or passed over...

 

[chf]

I think Sansa will be just a pro-family as her edited out of the show mother was. She had to grow up out of her 'fairy-tale' princess role, but I don't get the sense that she would throw over the Stark name for her own political gain.

Besides, she knows better than anyone how really unstable Petr is.

Baelish wants her as his Catelyn stand-in, but he doesn't want her as his ruler, he wants her as his notch on the belt.

 

[Payton]

So is the upcoming Season 7 still based on an already published book now? Or is this venturing into unpublished or non-book material at this point?

 

[chf]

So is the upcoming Season 7 still based on an already published book now? Or is this venturing into unpublished or non-book material at this point?

The book is in the works.

 

[juliansteed]

So is the upcoming Season 7 still based on an already published book now? Or is this venturing into unpublished or non-book material at this point?

The show had pretty much caught upto the books by the end of Season 5 for most characters and locations. There was mostly just the Bran storyline and a couple of others storylines that were skipped that they went back and did. The first 4 seasons had followed the books fairly closely but Season 5 started to deviate quite a bit. What little source material remained for Season 6 wasn't followed very closely.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

Attacking the Boltons a few seasons ago (prior to Tywin's death) would have been going against the Lannisters but not so much at this point. That alliance was made by Tywin and Roose, both of whom are dead now. Roose never trusted Cersei and bailed on that alliance pretty much after Tywin died, when he arranged to have his son marry Sansa, who was a fugitive of the Crown and Tyrion's "wife" (but never consummated). I believe this was brought up in Season 5.

There's a pretty popular theory as to what Euron's Plan B is going to be now that Theon and Yara beat him to Daenerys. There's another queen out there right now who is currently short on allies whom he might be able to arrange something with.

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to watch the series again before Season 7 starts. You'll probably find you'll pick some stuff up that you missed the first time and a lot of stuff will make more sense to you now that you are more familiar with the characters, locations, history etc. My GF and I started re-watching from Season 1 earlier this week.

I didn't even realize when Margaery Tyrell was with Joffrey that she was the same girl who was with Renley earlier until I rewatched it.

 

[Inquisitor95]

I didn't even realize when Margaery Tyrell was with Joffrey that she was the same girl who was with Renley earlier until I rewatched it.

Yes she wanted to be a queen very badly.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yes she wanted to be a queen very badly.

Ultimate black widow. She married 3 dudes hoping to be Queen. 2 of her hubbys were actual throne-sitters.