SEC Fatigue

[ALMDawgfan]

The national title game this year wouldve been

Bama vs Michigan under the old system

The only reason UGA won the title is because they expanded from 2 to 4

Most years 1 of the top 2 teams wins but not every year

If we expanded further the aame would be true. Most years 1 or 2 would win. However there would be years 5/6/7/8 would win

If pushed to it by the old system's two team limitation UGA would have been in much as LSU and Bama were seeded in 2012 (2011 Season). Yes it WAS different in that Bama had only lost 9-6 while the Dawgs were drubbed by the Tide but the Wolverines had already lost to an unranked in similar fashion and no one would have wanted to see a repeat of 2020.....

 

[rmilia1]

If pushed to it by the old system's two team limitation UGA would have been in much as LSU and Bama were seeded in 2012 (2011 Season). Yes it WAS different in that Bama had only lost 9-6 while the Dawgs were drubbed by the Tide but the Wolverines had already lost to an unranked in similar fashion and no one would have wanted to see a repeat of 2020.....

Nope. Michigan was 2 by the old system. By a fairly large amount too. Litetally dozens of sites you can look up what the BCS syandings wouldve been

 

[ALMDawgfan]

No, there will NEVER be 4 SEC teams in an expanded to 8 team playoff.

Never is a long time. Once it was said there would never be a play off. Before that there would NEVER be two teams from one Conference in the BCS... there are more instances of "Never" not standing the test of time.... Heck, we had to stoop to putting Cincy in the mix this year to avoid the dreaded 2 loss Baylor squad (My choice for that slot). Who is your next Conference Champ? Ya want the PAC rep? How about ACC?

In all seriousness I made the 4 team comment tongue in cheek, but there are some Conference Champs that would be hard pressed to merit entry even via auto bid...

 

[Gator]

I look at the cupcake scheduling as a college version of a preseason. Use them games to tune up. By week 11 you shouldn't need a punching bag team to be playing, every conference has bottom feeders, put one of them in that spot if you need to have that guaranteed win game late in the year. OOC to me should be before you start conference play, but that's just me

Now, I am really confused. You say that "you" look at them as pre-season games. You are in the minority in the BIG conference as ten of the 14 teams started last season playing a conference opponent. Only Maryland, Michigan, Purdue and Rutgers played an OOC games the first week and only Michigan, Purdue, and Rutgers played OOC games the first 3 games. So now the question is IF the BIG conference starts with conference games THEN why NOT spread out the other games????

 

[ALMDawgfan]

Nope. Michigan was 2 by the old system. By a fairly large amount too. Litetally dozens of sites you can look up what the BCS syandings wouldve been

I submit to you, as it was considered at the time and a prime motivator of the move to the play off system, that the BCS Rankings come crunch time would have reflected the Tide moving up one after beating UGA and UGA moving down one in the Loss to Bama.... There was nothing in the Michigan resume' that said any different... I remind you 3 of the 4 Big1G Bowl losses for this year were to SEC teams and it took O.T. for Purdue to nip the Viles to prevent the sweep.... That is with the vantage of hind sight validation to be sure, but there would be folk saying as much before hand. It looks to me seeing that as the basis of the SEC in the world wearying "Superiority Role" would not have been proven unfounded.

I, for one, am glad we have the play off system and it appears it will eventually expand.... However I do not see College Football looking anything like it does by the time the current format is changed... The cash Pipeline is open and made legit.... A different game is on the horizon.

 

[rmilia1]

I submit to you, as it was considered at the time and a prime motivator of the move to the play off system, that the BCS Rankings come crunch time would have reflected the Tide moving up one after beating UGA and UGA moving down one in the Loss to Bama.... There was nothing in the Michigan resume' that said any different... I remind you 3 of the 4 Big1G Bowl losses for this year were to SEC teams and it took O.T. for Purdue to nip the Viles to prevent the sweep.... That is with the vantage of hind sight validation to be sure, but there would be folk saying as much before hand. It looks to me seeing that as the basis of the SEC in the world wearying "Superiority Role" would not have been proven unfounded.

I, for one, am glad we have the play off system and it appears it will eventually expand.... However I do not see College Football looking anything like it does by the time the current format is changed... The cash Pipeline is open and made legit.... A different game is on the horizon.

Yeah thats not how the BCS worked man lol

 

[LoftonPack80]

Now, I am really confused. You say that "you" look at them as pre-season games. You are in the minority in the BIG conference as ten of the 14 teams started last season playing a conference opponent. Only Maryland, Michigan, Purdue and Rutgers played an OOC games the first week and only Michigan, Purdue, and Rutgers played OOC games the first 3 games. So now the question is IF the BIG conference starts with conference games THEN why NOT spread out the other games????

Oh trust me, I hate that they play conference games in week 1. Get rid of that too

 

[Gator]

Oh trust me, I hate that they play conference games in week 1. Get rid of that too

Personally, I think UM should go with the flow. First UM's Non-conf schedule is ridiculous:
Sep.3 No.105 Colorado State Rams
Sep.10 No.90 Hawaii Rainbow Warriors
Sep.17 No.129 UConn Huskies
UM needs to beef this up.

Here is the first 4 games of UM's 2022 schedule as it stands now
Sep.3 No.105 Colorado State Rams
Sep.10 No.90 Hawaii Rainbow Warriors
Sep.17 No.129 UConn Huskies
Sep.24 No.56 Maryland Terrapins

Why does UM need 6 months off followed by 3 games against teams 90+ in the rankings just to get ready to play Maryland?

Here's what I think UM's should do: drop Nebraska and go back to 8 Conf games then move a few around and add a BIG non-conference game. How about this schedule?
Sep.3 No.105 Colorado State Rams
Sep.10 No.2 Alabama (Alabama currently has a game AT Texas scheduled but Texas is down so.... dump them and pick up UM)
Sep.17 No.90 Hawaii Rainbow Warriors
Sep.24 No.56 Maryland Terrapins
Oct.1 No.24 at Iowa Hawkeyes
Oct.8 No.100 at Indiana Hoosiers
Oct.15 No.31 Penn State Nittany Lions
Oct.22 No. OFF
Oct.29 No.9 Michigan State Spartans
Nov.5 No.85 at Rutgers Scarlet Knights
Nov.12 No.75 Illinois Fighting Illini
Nov.19 No.129 UConn Huskies
Nov.26 No.5 at Ohio State Buckeyes

The schedule is beefed up but look at what's in front of all of the "big" games!! You still start off with 3 non-conf games!! That's a smart schedule.

 

[ALMDawgfan]

Yeah thats not how the BCS worked man lol

In theory no. If you remember well enough "The Formula" being tweaked at odd times was a major issue for many and the complaint of SEC "Bias" was most often cited.... I.E. Michigan vs Ohio State didn't get a do over and Bama LSU did, etc.... The whole complaint from the days of Bowl ties was the best two teams often didn't play in the end and EOY rankings were "Subjective". Trying to get the best two teams head to head has been what it has been about... Tweaking or enlarging the field hasn't changed the mix in the end much.

This was a good year....

 

[LawDawg]

I look at the cupcake scheduling as a college version of a preseason. Use them games to tune up. By week 11 you shouldn't need a punching bag team to be playing, every conference has bottom feeders, put one of them in that spot if you need to have that guaranteed win game late in the year. OOC to me should be before you start conference play, but that's just me

SEC plays more conference games early. The B1G will once the TV contract is renewed.

Whether you play in week 1-4 as a pre-season, or in week 11 as a bye week, does it really matter? Both teams are fattening up on lesser teams. If you think it's unfair, change your scheduling.

It is kind of ironic that after all the years of the B1G and PAC whining about the SEC playing 8 conference games that those 2 conferences are going to go to 8 IC games and the SEC is going to go to 9.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

No it doesn't.... 3-4 of the 8 would be SEC Teams....

Sure, if you expand to 16. Won't happen at 8.

 

[Gator]

Sure, if you expand to 16. Won't happen at 8.

I still say that the field would not need to be expanded IF teams would just PLAY other P5 teams especially those P5 teams that are "equivalents".

Last season 9 teams (14.1% of P5 conference teams) played ZERO P5 teams OOC (Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Indiana, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Wake Forest, and Washington State). For comparison, the BigTen played 64 IN-conference games, the ACC and SEC played 57 IN-conference games, the PAC played 55 IN-conference games, and the Big 12 played 46 IN-conference games. That's a total of 279 games played JUST to decide IN-conference rankings. The 55 teams that DID play OOC P5 opponents.......played just 30 games against each other. You want to expand the field to 16? Last year P5 teams that ended the season in the Top 32 played each other THREE times during the regular season. That's not enough info to rank the teams!!!! The conferences MUST come to an agreement that each P5 team will play 8 conference games, 2 P5 OOC games, 1 G5 OOC, and 1 vs whomever they want (the Big 12 can use it for a 9th IN-conference game to complete their round-robin play). Any team that wishes to be considered for the playoff must play at least three teams in the Top 40.

 

[TheLonestarDUCK]

SEC plays more conference games early. The B1G will once the TV contract is renewed.

Whether you play in week 1-4 as a pre-season, or in week 11 as a bye week, does it really matter? Both teams are fattening up on lesser teams. If you think it's unfair, change your scheduling.

It is kind of ironic that after all the years of the B1G and PAC whining about the SEC playing 8 conference games that those 2 conferences are going to go to 8 IC games and the SEC is going to go to 9.

Believe it when we see it

 

[Bamaklingon]

Non SEC Trams need to just sack up already.

 

[Nat Mann]

I still say that the field would not need to be expanded IF teams would just PLAY other P5 teams especially those P5 teams that are "equivalents".

Last season 9 teams (14.1% of P5 conference teams) played ZERO P5 teams OOC (Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Indiana, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Wake Forest, and Washington State). For comparison, the BigTen played 64 IN-conference games, the ACC and SEC played 57 IN-conference games, the PAC played 55 IN-conference games, and the Big 12 played 46 IN-conference games. That's a total of 279 games played JUST to decide IN-conference rankings. The 55 teams that DID play OOC P5 opponents.......played just 30 games against each other. You want to expand the field to 16? Last year P5 teams that ended the season in the Top 32 played each other THREE times during the regular season. That's not enough info to rank the teams!!!! The conferences MUST come to an agreement that each P5 team will play 8 conference games, 2 P5 OOC games, 1 G5 OOC, and 1 vs whomever they want (the Big 12 can use it for a 9th IN-conference game to complete their round-robin play). Any team that wishes to be considered for the playoff must play at least three teams in the Top 40.

I agree that it would be nice to see more OOC games between top teams, but there are a few roadblocks in the way.

First more games between top teams means fewer games between top teams and cupcakes. This may seem like a good thing, but football in smaller schools depends on getting a split of the take from a 100,000 seat stadium. That cash influx pays for not only football, but for most of the athletic budget.

Second, games are scheduled years in advance. There's a lot of legwork that goes on to book flights, publish schedules, book hotels, etc. Multiply it by 128+ teams and it's hard to tell which teams are going to be in the top 40 four years from now. It would be complete chaos if everybody was trying to drop their below the top 40 teams right before the start of the season.

 

[Gator]

First more games between top teams means fewer games between top teams and cupcakes. This may seem like a good thing, but football in smaller schools depends on getting a split of the take from a 100,000 seat stadium. That cash influx pays for not only football, but for most of the athletic budget.

Yes, but you can't save everyone. In 2022 LSU has UAB Blazers, New Mexico Lobos and Southern Jaguars (plus FSU which I have no problem with), but, pick ONE charity team per year.

Second, games are scheduled years in advance. There's a lot of legwork that goes on to book flights, publish schedules, book hotels, etc. Multiply it by 128+ teams and it's hard to tell which teams are going to be in the top 40 four years from now. It would be complete chaos if everybody was trying to drop their below the top 40 teams right before the start of the season.

First, LSU has no problem with three teams in the top 40. Heck you play three teams in the top 20 just in your own DIVISION. But let's play devils advocate and say LSU wasn't in the SEC West and needed to beef up their schedule. I said two P5, 1 G5 and a ??? game. Over the past 10 season LSU is the #3 SEC team. Therefore they should schedule OOC games vs teams 1-5 in P5 conferences. Pick two from: Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Stanford, Michigan State, Utah, Miami-Florida, Michigan, Baylor, Louisville, Penn State, Washington, Kansas State, or Virginia Tech.

LSU already has FSU (over the past 10 years FSU is #17 in winning percentage so expect top 40). Southern University is in Baton Rouge so it's a local charity team: keep them. LSU has no business scheduling New Mexico #118. Swap UNM out for one of the above teams. UAB ended the season at #43 but is #25 winningest team of the past 10 seasons. If you want to be even safer maybe swap them for: Appalachian State, Boise State, San Diego State, Cincinnati, or Central Florida.

It doesn't take much to fix the problem.

 

[fla-TIGER]

Agreed, just as Florida had no business playing Eastern Kentucky and Samford in 2021.
A look at upcoming schedules has LSU playing decent out of conference teams such as (2023) FSU in Orlando, (2024) USC in Vegas, UCLA, (2025) @ Clemson, (2026) Clemson at the Real Death Valley, (2027). Add new SEC teams Texas and Oklahoma, likely playing them every year to the schedule. Problem fixed.

 

[Gator]

Agreed, just as Florida had no business playing Eastern Kentucky and Samford in 2021.
A look at upcoming schedules has LSU playing decent out of conference teams such as (2023) FSU in Orlando, (2024) USC in Vegas, UCLA, (2025) @ Clemson, (2026) Clemson at the Real Death Valley, (2027). Add new SEC teams Texas and Oklahoma, likely playing them every year to the schedule. Problem fixed.

As I stated, "First, LSU has no problem with three teams in the top 40. Heck you play three teams in the top 20 just in your own DIVISION. But let's play devils advocate and say LSU wasn't in the SEC West and needed to beef up their schedule.".

I can't come up with a schedule for 16 teams playing 8 conference games!

I am assuming that with 16 teams the SEC will move to 9 conference games and four "pods".

I was thinking...
Oklahoma, Texas, Ole Miss, MSU
LSU, Tex A&M, Mizzou, Arkansas
Bama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vandy
Georgia, Florida. Kentucky, South Carolina

Each team plays the 3 pod members and 3 "traditional rivals" every year. The remaining 9 teams rotate 3 at a time.

LSU would play Texas A&M, Missouri, and Arkansas every year in their "pod"
They might play Alabama, Florida, and Ole Miss every year as tradition rivals.
Then play Georgia, Auburn, and MSU in rotation #1
Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Kentucky in rotation #2
Texas, South Carolina, and Vandy in rotation #3.

Now, add 2 more P5 OOC and a G5!!!!

 

[Ron G]

I look at the cupcake scheduling as a college version of a preseason. Use them games to tune up. By week 11 you shouldn't need a punching bag team to be playing, every conference has bottom feeders, put one of them in that spot if you need to have that guaranteed win game late in the year. OOC to me should be before you start conference play, but that's just me

Any OOC game against an FCS team should not even count as a win in the overall total. While I admit to an ND bias, it is always disingenuous when P5 teams say their champion has to play 13 games while ND only plays 12.

 

[Ron G]

I agree that it would be nice to see more OOC games between top teams, but there are a few roadblocks in the way.

First more games between top teams means fewer games between top teams and cupcakes. This may seem like a good thing, but football in smaller schools depends on getting a split of the take from a 100,000 seat stadium. That cash influx pays for not only football, but for most of the athletic budget.

Second, games are scheduled years in advance. There's a lot of legwork that goes on to book flights, publish schedules, book hotels, etc. Multiply it by 128+ teams and it's hard to tell which teams are going to be in the top 40 four years from now. It would be complete chaos if everybody was trying to drop their below the top 40 teams right before the start of the season.

That is why SOS is such a troublesome statistic, games being scheduled years in advance. I have used this example in the past. Southern Cal had the same record two years in a row back in the early 2000s, or so. One year their SOS got them in the Championship and one year it worked against them. What was the difference? They beat ND both years. However, one year ND was 9-3 and one year they were 3-9. In neither case did SC schedule ND as 'likely win".
I realize it would be too complicated, but part of considering SOS should be consideration of the traditional strength of opponents and the trending status of nontraditional powerhouse (example would be Wisconsin) at the time the contracts are signed.