Schneider feeling the heat?

[flyerhawk]

No Accuracy isnt the most important trait after a point. Thats if you are above 63% then it no longer is that big a deal. Whats the BIGGEST and MOST IMPORTANT trait is reading defenses, going through progression and limiting Turnovers. PERIOD, No IF ANDS OR BUTS about it.

QBR is still a good way to look at the QB's and Geno is below Bo Nix and 22nd in the NFL.

Jameis Winston is the 8th best QB in the NFL based on QBR.

If you don't think accuracy matters I don't know what to say. Lock routinely misses simple throws that should always be on target. He has almost no touch on deep routes.

 

[Screamin12th]

Jameis Winston is the 8th best QB in the NFL based on QBR.

If you don't think accuracy matters I don't know what to say. Lock routinely misses simple throws that should always be on target. He has almost no touch on deep routes.

where did i say it "DIDNT" matter i said "No Accuracy isnt the most important trait after a point. Thats if you are above 63% then it no longer is that big a deal." dont be a idiot and twist shit to your own narrative ( like you always try and do ). Cam Newton won the NFL MVP with a sub 60% completion percentage FACTS. If your QB is at 63% or better you are in good hands most of the time. You know what truly is the most telling state for a QB? success on 3rd downs and rating on 3rd downs WHERE shockingly Geno is bottom 7. OH NO! The ability to read a defense, go through your progression, protect the ball and find the open man is FAR more important than completion percentage if you are above a 63% completion passer. Also TD to INT% is another Telling and important stat. On third down attempts ( 50 or more ) there are 28 QB's in the NFL with a better passer rating and QBR than Geno. OH NO! Now thats Telling. 3rd down is the most important down in football on EITHER side of the ball. FACTS!

Also ANYONE that thought Drew Lock was going to play well after getting zero reps for most of the season and finding out he was the starter one day before the game is high on crack.

 

[Screamin12th]

Also just to add this he is ranked 20th on 1st down.

 

[flyerhawk]

where did i say it "DIDNT" matter i said "No Accuracy isnt the most important trait after a point. Thats if you are above 63% then it no longer is that big a deal." dont be a idiot and twist shit to your own narrative ( like you always try and do ). Cam Newton won the NFL MVP with a sub 60% completion percentage FACTS. If your QB is at 63% or better you are in good hands most of the time. You know what truly is the most telling state for a QB? success on 3rd downs and rating on 3rd downs WHERE shockingly Geno is bottom 7. OH NO! The ability to read a defense, go through your progression, protect the ball and find the open man is FAR more important than completion percentage if you are above a 63% completion passer. Also TD to INT% is another Telling and important stat. On third down attempts ( 50 or more ) there are 28 QB's in the NFL with a better passer rating and QBR than Geno. OH NO! Now thats Telling. 3rd down is the most important down in football on EITHER side of the ball. FACTS!

Also ANYONE that thought Drew Lock was going to play well after getting zero reps for most of the season and finding out he was the starter one day before the game is high on crack.

Why was he behind DeVito on the depth chart?

You seen obsessed with stat hunting

 

[JMR]

Why was he behind DeVito on the depth chart?

Well, I think a big part of this is that the NYG are a tire fire of an organization right now. Dabol and probably the GM are both dead men walking. I think they were told to start DeVito at home for the "Tommy Cutlets" appeal since the team sucks and is going nowhere and is about to clean house once again this off-season. I definitely don't think DeVito has more talent than Lock.

And how the frog did they beat us at home??? Mortifying that the Hawks are one of their 2 wins on the entire season.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well, I think a big part of this is that the NYG are a tire fire of an organization right now. Dabol and probably the GM are both dead men walking. I think they were told to start DeVito at home for the "Tommy Cutlets" appeal since the team sucks and is going nowhere and is about to clean house once again this off-season. I definitely don't think DeVito has more talent than Lock.

And how the frog did they beat us at home??? Mortifying that the Hawks are one of their 2 wins on the entire season.

I doubt that Dabol would willingly play a lesser QB just to lose games since a 2-15 season almost guarantees he won't be there next year, although my Giant fan friends generally seem ok with him still so maybe not. I do think that Lock has more talent than Cutlets. But I also think that Lock accuracy issues will forever limit him from being anything more than a backup.

The Hawks game was a culmination of injuries and bad breaks, which happen in football. Every big play by the Hawks was either called back by a penalty or followed up by a turnover. We play them 10 times and we win 8.

 

[JMR]

I doubt that Dabol would willingly play a lesser QB just to lose games since a 2-15 season almost guarantees he won't be there next year, although my Giant fan friends generally seem ok with him still so maybe not.

I really don't think coaches/players tank either, but I honestly don't have any other explanation. I mean I don't think Dabol is trying to tank... I just think he knows he's getting fired or at least the Mara knows he's firing him, so some of that power might be pulled more toward the top right now. Maybe not, but there's no real good football reason to start Cutlets over Lock.

I do think that Lock has more talent than Cutlets. But I also think that Lock accuracy issues will forever limit him from being anything more than a backup.

Definitely a possibility, though it's tough to judge him a whole lot from anything happening in NYG land right now. Garbage organization, lousy team, heads about to roll.

The Hawks game was a culmination of injuries and bad breaks, which happen in football. Every big play by the Hawks was either called back by a penalty or followed up by a turnover. We play them 10 times and we win 8.

Worst loss since probably vs Panthers a couple years ago when they were absolutely terrible and also beat us at home.

 

[flyerhawk]

I really don't think coaches/players tank either, but I honestly don't have any other explanation. I mean I don't think Dabol is trying to tank... I just think he knows he's getting fired or at least the Mara knows he's firing him, so some of that power might be pulled more toward the top right now. Maybe not, but there's no real good football reason to start Cutlets over Lock.

I tend to just assume the simplest answer. Cutlets looked better in practice.

Definitely a possibility, though it's tough to judge him a whole lot from anything happening in NYG land right now. Garbage organization, lousy team, heads about to roll.

But this is now his 3rd team. He wasn't good enough to supplant Geno. He wasn't good enough to supplant Dimes. He wasn't good enough to supplant Cutlets. I get that the backup QB is often one of the fan favorites because they offer hope but it is very rarely true.

Worst loss since probably vs Panthers a couple years ago when they were absolutely terrible and also beat us at home.

Yeah. Bad loss. Hopefully they have improved the run defense now so we won't get so exposed.

 

[Screamin12th]

I tend to just assume the simplest answer. Cutlets looked better in practice.



But this is now his 3rd team. He wasn't good enough to supplant Geno. He wasn't good enough to supplant Dimes. He wasn't good enough to supplant Cutlets. I get that the backup QB is often one of the fan favorites because they offer hope but it is very rarely true.

this is your opinion. you say as much " I tend to assume "

You are assuming and making a defacto opinion on that assumption, do you not see the problem? No?

I can tell you what my assumption is and its 100% as valid as yours. Lock isnt starting because they were looking for and hoping for a spark. It was stated, and this isnt an opinion, that Lock wasnt getting ANY reps and its been like this all season. Lock himself stated after being asked how many reps he got before the game and he said " Well at least it wasn't zero". Yeah you can always look better than the guy getting ZERO reps in practice. Thats a dead staff walking and i am sure they are looking for ANYTHING out of their young QB that they control over a 1 year rental with a 5 million cap hit Like Drew Lock. It doesnt help them for Drew to succeed, it DOES help them to get the young guy reps. They knew early on this was a dead season with no future in it.

Also lets be fair, Drew Lock looked ok in the preseason last year and Geno didnt play but for like 9 total plays but still got the nod. Drew Lock played well against the 49ers AND Eagles and had a 92 or better rating in BOTH Starts against GOOD teams. Geno has a 93 or better rating in less than 30% ( 3 out of 11 ) of his games this year with his best games coming against some Bad teams. ( NE, NYG, ATL ) with ATL being his best game where he completed only 18 passes.

Drews Preseason going against starters but not getting to play with starters ( Remember that? )

38

55

69.1

460

8.4

153.3

48

3

1

1

8

105.1

those are not bad numbers. 38 of 55 69.1% comp 8.4 ypa 153 per game ( this is right at that 2 games worth of actual playing time but is broke up into 3 ) 3 TD 1 INT. If he was throwing 27.5 attempts per game thats 229 YPG not 153. How often do we throw 27.5 attempts in a game? I wish we did.

 

[JMR]

I tend to just assume the simplest answer. Cutlets looked better in practice.

Maybe he did, not sure. I don't follow the Giants other than what they are doing on gameday. Did Lock even get a chance to compete for the job?

But this is now his 3rd team. He wasn't good enough to supplant Geno. He wasn't good enough to supplant Dimes. He wasn't good enough to supplant Cutlets. I get that the backup QB is often one of the fan favorites because they offer hope but it is very rarely true.

Yeah, 3rd team. Can you really say he failed in Seattle? I mean he got no realistic shot here. PC said there was a QB competition in the 2022 training camp, but Lock sustained an injury and it sorta cut the legs off any kind of real competition. Geno then plays "good" for the regular season and essentially has a stranglehold on the job into 2023. Then Lock leaves for NYG. Is he really a failure there? I mean once again, no real shot with Daniel Jones the established starter, big money, prev top pick, won a playoff game recently, etc. You aren't just showing up and beating him out based on how you look in practice.

I am not in the Drew Lock fan club or anything, but I am also not ready to just write him off when he hasn't had much of an opportunity since Denver, including the spot start the other day for a crummy team that seems to be in complete disarray.

 

[flyerhawk]

this is your opinion. you say as much " I tend to assume "

You are assuming and making a defacto opinion on that assumption, do you not see the problem? No?

Yes. It's called having an opinion. Since I don't work for the Giants or Seahawks, all I can do is speculate. Just like you.

I can tell you what my assumption is and its 100% as valid as yours. Lock isnt starting because they were looking for and hoping for a spark. It was stated, and this isnt an opinion, that Lock wasnt getting ANY reps and its been like this all season. Lock himself stated after being asked how many reps he got before the game and he said " Well at least it wasn't zero". Yeah you can always look better than the guy getting ZERO reps in practice. Thats a dead staff walking and i am sure they are looking for ANYTHING out of their young QB that they control over a 1 year rental with a 5 million cap hit Like Drew Lock. It doesnt help them for Drew to succeed, it DOES help them to get the young guy reps. They knew early on this was a dead season with no future in it.

They paid Lock $5,000,000 to join the Giants. And yet they decided to make him the QB3 and keep DeVito as the QB2 because they really didn't want him?

Also lets be fair, Drew Lock looked ok in the preseason last year and Geno didnt play but for like 9 total plays but still got the nod. Drew Lock played well against the 49ers AND Eagles and had a 92 or better rating in BOTH Starts against GOOD teams. Geno has a 93 or better rating in less than 30% ( 3 out of 11 ) of his games this year with his best games coming against some Bad teams. ( NE, NYG, ATL ) with ATL being his best game where he completed only 18 passes.

Drews Preseason going against starters but not getting to play with starters ( Remember that? )

38

55

69.1

460

8.4

153.3

48

3

1

1

8

105.1

those are not bad numbers. 38 of 55 69.1% comp 8.4 ypa 153 per game ( this is right at that 2 games worth of actual playing time but is broke up into 3 ) 3 TD 1 INT. If he was throwing 27.5 attempts per game thats 229 YPG not 153. How often do we throw 27.5 attempts in a game? I wish we did.

Clearly you know more about Drew Lock than the coaching staffs of the Broncos, Seahawks, and Giants. I for one, don't pretend to know more about the players than the coaches.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe he did, not sure. I don't follow the Giants other than what they are doing on gameday. Did Lock even get a chance to compete for the job?




Yeah, 3rd team. Can you really say he failed in Seattle? I mean he got no realistic shot here. PC said there was a QB competition in the 2022 training camp, but Lock sustained an injury and it sorta cut the legs off any kind of real competition. Geno then plays "good" for the regular season and essentially has a stranglehold on the job into 2023. Then Lock leaves for NYG. Is he really a failure there? I mean once again, no real shot with Daniel Jones the established starter, big money, prev top pick, won a playoff game recently, etc. You aren't just showing up and beating him out based on how you look in practice.

I am not in the Drew Lock fan club or anything, but I am also not ready to just write him off when he hasn't had much of an opportunity since Denver, including the spot start the other day for a crummy team that seems to be in complete disarray.

Lock and Geno were in an open competition after the Russ trade. But it was never really a question whether Geno would start or not. And it's not like Pete never benched the presumed starter in favor of the backup in the past.

I have nothing against Lock. But everytime I've seen him play, I've seen a QB with serious accuracy problems. I suspect that this is what the coaches see in practice and why he never gets the shot to prove himself.

 

[Screamin12th]

Yes. It's called having an opinion. Since I don't work for the Giants or Seahawks, all I can do is speculate. Just like you.



They paid Lock $5,000,000 to join the Giants. And yet they decided to make him the QB3 and keep DeVito as the QB2 because they really didn't want him?



Clearly you know more about Drew Lock than the coaching staffs of the Broncos, Seahawks, and Giants. I for one, don't pretend to know more about the players than the coaches.

You are the only one on this board ( ok not the only one ) that states their opinions as fact. I state stats as fact there is a BIG HUGE ENORMOUS difference because one IS in fact facts. lol

Hawks wanted drew back they stated as much but didnt get a chance as he was a FA and was offered 5 million and signed before the Hawks ever got into contract talks because they were working on Williams.

Locks total numbers from 2023 as a starter ( not spot duty ) Preseason/regular season

82 of 119 68.9% 937 yards 7.8ypa, 6TD 3INT 98.62 Rating. these are not bad numbers not one bit close to bad numbers. 2 to 1 for TD to INT's which should be the MINIMUM for any starting QB. ( Geno is 1 to 1 )

The fact is Geno is 34 turning 35 and regressing sharply and having a young guy play RIGHT NOW is better for the future. The Hawks need to find a QB not betting on a lame duck.

 

[flyerhawk]

You are the only one on this board ( ok not the only one ) that states their opinions as fact. I state stats as fact there is a BIG HUGE ENORMOUS difference because one IS in fact facts. lol

you literally quote me saying "I tend to assume" and then accuse me of stating my opinion as fact?

You post statistics and then treat your conclusions based on those stats as facts.

Hawks wanted drew back they stated as much but didnt get a chance as he was a FA and was offered 5 million and signed before the Hawks ever got into contract talks because they were working on Williams.

This is you just stating facts again, right?

Locks total numbers from 2023 as a starter ( not spot duty ) Preseason/regular season

82 of 119 68.9% 937 yards 7.8ypa, 6TD 3INT 98.62 Rating. these are not bad numbers not one bit close to bad numbers. 2 to 1 for TD to INT's which should be the MINIMUM for any starting QB. ( Geno is 1 to 1 )

The fact is Geno is 34 turning 35 and regressing sharply and having a young guy play RIGHT NOW is better for the future. The Hawks need to find a QB not betting on a lame duck.

Suggesting that we should bench Geno right now is absolutely ludicrous. This isn't Madden.

I am baffled at all the Seahawks fans who are absolutely obsessed with getting rid of Geno. We all realize that we need to find a new QB but the point of playing the game is winning games.

 

[Screamin12th]

I am baffled at all the Seahawks fans who are absolutely obsessed with getting rid of Geno. We all realize that we need to find a new QB but the point of playing the game is winning games.

And we are not "winning" anything with Geno. He is a career .500 QB that has always had Turnover issues and cant read a defense. He is either A) a great back up or B) a sub par starter. Geno is the perfect "Back up" QB. Someone that can keep you playing .500 ball till your starter comes back but thats all he is, a .500 starter.

Howell needs to play so we can find out if there is anything there as he is young AND showed a little something his first season as a starter. Lock showed a little something also when he played but BOTH may never be more than cast offs. You can never tell with them sitting on the bench.

Imagine That Drew Bledsoe never got hurt, the patriots may have NEVER seen Tom brady play. Now i am not saying ANY of these guys are Tom Brady what i am saying is you got to see what you got. The two games Drew Played for the Hawks last season when the coaches were not playing ultra conservitive which they did a lot of with him he was at the same level as Geno with room to improve. Geno will NOT improve only regress. Is he capable of a great game? yes! so is any average or below average QB.

 

[flyerhawk]

And we are not "winning" anything with Geno. He is a career .500 QB that has always had Turnover issues and cant read a defense. He is either A) a great back up or B) a sub par starter. Geno is the perfect "Back up" QB. Someone that can keep you playing .500 ball till your starter comes back but thats all he is, a .500 starter.

Howell needs to play so we can find out if there is anything there as he is young AND showed a little something his first season as a starter. Lock showed a little something also when he played but BOTH may never be more than cast offs. You can never tell with them sitting on the bench.

Imagine That Drew Bledsoe never got hurt, the patriots may have NEVER seen Tom brady play. Now i am not saying ANY of these guys are Tom Brady what i am saying is you got to see what you got. The two games Drew Played for the Hawks last season when the coaches were not playing ultra conservitive which they did a lot of with him he was at the same level as Geno with room to improve. Geno will NOT improve only regress. Is he capable of a great game? yes! so is any average or below average QB.

Great. And we can tell the other 52 players on the team that despite the team being in first place, it is more important to the team to see if Howell can be the starting QB or not even if that means that they lose the rest of their games.

 

[Screamin12th]

Because 12 TD passes and 12 INT's is SOOOO GOOD. I mean think about the fact he also has 6 fumbles and THANKFULLY lost none of those. Imagine if just 3 of those were lost. He is on par to have a worse season than Howell did his first year starting. It really cant get much worse and the fact that you think it can makes no sense. Oh wow another 4th quarter come back win for geno .. yeah uhm we wouldnt have been in that situation if it wasnt FOR Geno in the first place. This is how you play .500 ball.

Geno has been more sub par this season than average and like i said with the talent level we have in the skill positions he really shouldnt be struggling like he does. When you watch the all 22 you will break something as WR and TE are open ALL OVER THE GOD DAMN PLACE!

He obviously can't see the field or go through his progression. All that does is holds back the rest of the teams development. Got to do something or just pray your defense can hold every team they play under 20 points. Hawks have not won a game where the other team scored more than 20 points. Every NFC West team minus the Seahawks has 2 such wins when the oppenents score more than 20 points.

 

[gohuskresurrected]

Great. And we can tell the other 52 players on the team that despite the team being in first place, it is more important to the team to see if Howell can be the starting QB or not even if that means that they lose the rest of their games.

You have to play to win. Playing to "lose for the future" will absolutely wreck a locker room and Geno's obviously the starter right now. I remember way back when on the ESPN boards where people were pissed we weren't "sucking for Luck" and look how that turned out. But as far as Geno goes, I just don't see a reason to extend him and eat that cap hit moving forward.

 

[flyerhawk]

Because 12 TD passes and 12 INT's is SOOOO GOOD. I mean think about the fact he also has 6 fumbles and THANKFULLY lost none of those. Imagine if just 3 of those were lost. He is on par to have a worse season than Howell did his first year starting. It really cant get much worse and the fact that you think it can makes no sense. Oh wow another 4th quarter come back win for geno .. yeah uhm we wouldnt have been in that situation if it wasnt FOR Geno in the first place. This is how you play .500 ball.

Geno has been more sub par this season than average and like i said with the talent level we have in the skill positions he really shouldnt be struggling like he does. When you watch the all 22 you will break something as WR and TE are open ALL OVER THE GOD DAMN PLACE!

He obviously can't see the field or go through his progression. All that does is holds back the rest of the teams development. Got to do something or just pray your defense can hold every team they play under 20 points. Hawks have not won a game where the other team scored more than 20 points. Every NFC West team minus the Seahawks has 2 such wins when the oppenents score more than 20 points.

I love how you blithely say "Oh wow another 4th quarter come back win for Geno" like that is no big deal.

Like most casual fans, you ignore every other problem with the team and solely focus on the QB. Geno Smith isn't the reason why our running game is so bad. He's not the reason why our pass blocking is so weak. He's not the reason why the defense has struggled in run defense.

As I constantly say to you, no one is saying that Geno Smith is a great QB. We we DO say is that he is the starting QB for a division winning team and the notion of benching him is absolutely stupid. If we lose the next 2 games that may change but right now he is our starter and absolutely no coach would change that.

 

[flyerhawk]

You have to play to win. Playing to "lose for the future" will absolutely wreck a locker room and Geno's obviously the starter right now. I remember way back when on the ESPN boards where people were pissed we weren't "sucking for Luck" and look how that turned out. But as far as Geno goes, I just don't see a reason to extend him and eat that cap hit moving forward.

We can worry about the offseason in the off season. Right now, we need to focus on the team winning today.