Roman on Manning

[clyde_carbon]

Niners offensive coordinator echoes position that team “evaluated” Peyton Manning | ProFootballTalk

This still bothers me. What's wrong with saying, "Hey Alex, we like you, but we're talking about Peyton freakin' Manning here."

The fact that they're playing to Alex's feelings doesn't instill confidence in me that he can be a true leader.

Or maybe I'm just making too much of it.

 

[Flyingiguana]

thry offered smith a contract he didn't sign. there's nothing wrong with looking at another qb let alone manning. there's too much going into this from the media.

 

[clyde_carbon]

thry offered smith a contract he didn't sign. there's nothing wrong with looking at another qb let alone manning. there's too much going into this from the media.

So if Alex signed it from the get go, you don't think they would've (secretively) flown to the East Coast to watch Manning throw?

 

[Bemular]

So if Alex signed it from the get go, you don't think they would've (secretively) flown to the East Coast to watch Manning throw?

If Smith had signed the original offer - they would have flown Manning into Santa Clara for evaluation.

 

[MHSL82]

At least they aren't saying they had no interest in Manning. When Harbaugh first said they evaluated him, everyone seemed to say, "now, Harbaugh wants us to believe there was no interest in Manning?" Listen to what he said, he didn't say there was no interest, but the media runs around saying that Harbaugh's denying interest. I think what Harbaugh was saying, or at least the truth, was that we weren't begging him, offering him his contract, his offense, like everyone else was. That we had monetary restraint and wondered about his physical as much if not more than others. That there were other reasons that Manning wasn't here.

It was an evaluation and we wanted him here at our price and say. He didn't. My dad used to offer me all types of help, doesn't mean I needed it. I'm not sure our QB needs it as much as they say it, if at all. I really don't think this is all about protecting our QB. It may be a factor, but overall I think it might be Harbaugh not liking to be second guessed, rejected by Manning, keep talking about it in whatever way others choose it (though his attempts to change the narrative was in vein), etc.

I don't need to say whether I think he can be a leader, everyone knows my belief, but I don't think these statements are for that reason, at least not solely for that reason. Smith, if nothing else, is mentally tough to stick through what he has. Others have too, I'm not saying that he's the toughest guy, I just don't think he's looking at Harbaugh and saying, "did you really mean what you said? Did you really want me?" while a tear runs down his cheek. He knew he hasn't proven much and he doesn't need these comments... so I agree, these comments bother me too for different reasons.

 

[MHSL82]

If Smith had signed the original offer - they would have flown Manning into Santa Clara for evaluation.

Absolutely agree. For Smith, it all worked out... except for that nagging need to earn a roster spot next April. (Yes, I know that must have been in the original offer, too.)

 

[clyde_carbon]

If Smith had signed the original offer - they would have flown Manning into Santa Clara for evaluation.

Exactly. And repped.

 

[clyde_carbon]

At least they aren't saying they had no interest in Manning. When Harbaugh first said they evaluated him, everyone seemed to say, "now, Harbaugh wants us to believe there was no interest in Manning?" Listen to what he said, he didn't say there was no interest, but the media runs around saying that Harbaugh's denying interest. I think what Harbaugh was saying, or at least the truth, was that we weren't begging him, offering him his contract, his offense, like everyone else was. That we had monetary restraint and wondered about his physical as much if not more than others. That there were other reasons that Manning wasn't here.

It was an evaluation and we wanted him here at our price and say. He didn't. My dad used to offer me all types of help, doesn't mean I needed it. I'm not sure our QB needs it as much as they say it, if at all. I really don't think this is all about protecting our QB. It may be a factor, but overall I think it might be Harbaugh not liking to be second guessed, rejected by Manning, keep talking about it in whatever way others choose it (though his attempts to change the narrative was in vein), etc.

I don't need to say whether I think he can be a leader, everyone knows my belief, but I don't think these statements are for that reason, at least not solely for that reason. Smith, if nothing else, is mentally tough to stick through what he has. Others have too, I'm not saying that he's the toughest guy, I just don't think he's looking at Harbaugh and saying, "did you really mean what you said? Did you really want me?" while a tear runs down his cheek. He knew he hasn't proven much and he doesn't need these comments... so I agree, these comments bother me too for different reasons.

Please. They more than "evaluated" Manningh. Any talk of less is playing to Alex's feelings and pampering him.

 

[MHSL82]

Please. They more than "evaluated" Manning. Any talk of less is playing to Alex's feelings and pampering him.

That's why I said they wanted him here.

 

[I_am_1z]

Roman's like a guy that got his hand caught in the cookie jar, trying to defend his supposed favorite macadamia nut cookie, but he has chocolate chip residue all over his fingers saying he was just testing the safety of the classic cookie.

 

[MHSL82]

Roman's like a guy that got his hand caught in the cookie jar, trying to defend his supposed favorite macadamia nut cookie, but he has chocolate chip residue all over his fingers saying he was just testing the safety of the classic cookie.

[YOUTUBE]-6ip7bG1P4s[/YOUTUBE]

 

[MHSL82]

Disclaimer: my post as always is long so if that bugs you, skip it. If analogies are confusing, ignore it. If Alex posts bug you, you came to the wrong thread.

I don't see the need in saying these comments about evaluating/flirting with Manning unsolicited. When asked, as I assume Roman was, I don't have as much problem with it. Don't need to believe it either.

But like when Indianapolis was going to pick Andrew Luck and didn't want Manning there mucking it all up, they didn't say to Manning, we think you are too old, no longer the player of yesteryear, don't have it in you. Don't want you here for 4-5 more years when Luck is the future. They said instead, "we like you but it's the neck injury and we don't know how that'll hold up". Everyone knew that once Irsay knew he had the first pick, he was looking out for the future and wanted Luck now. Sure, the injury was and is a big deal, but they played that pretty strongly. The modified deal was probably much too low to be that reasonable.

Manning has plenty of leadership and doesn't need Irsay milking the injury, but he did. Irsay could have said Luck is the future, Manning the past, and that is a freaking big injury. Of course, the difference is that Andrew Luck (the outsider) looks to be better than Alex Smith and Manning (the insider) if healthy was better than Andrew Luck coming in. The same can't be said about Smith (the insider), and thus, the notion that these comments were made for his confidence. Just because Manning is better than Smith, doesn't mean that these comments by GMs and coaches aren't going to be geared for other reasons than propping up a non-leader, too. I'm sure it's a bit of that, but unnecessary, IMO.

It's not a true analogy, but my point is teams all the time say things that are more positive than they need to be, even to those who are established leaders, to those with all the confidence in the world. It's not surprising nor prudential to not do the same for those who are not established. There's just no good reason to state the negative. I'm sure Alex understands that it's Peyton Freakin' Manning. While these comments do bug me, I don't see the need to answer it any differently, especially with anything differing from Harbaugh would be blown up more for its inconsistency than content.

 

[Jikkle]

Harbaugh and Roman are playing politician with the media.

Nothing they said was a lie as technically all the did was evaluate Manning. BUT don't think for a second if Manning came to them and said I don't care what it takes, I want to be a 9er they would've turned him down.

The question the media should ask them is if Manning wanted to sign a much cheaper contract than the one he got with Denver would you have said yes.

 

[Bemular]

Disclaimer: my post as always is long so if that bugs you, skip it. If analogies are confusing, ignore it. If Alex posts bug you, you came to the wrong thread.

I don't see the need in saying these comments about evaluating/flirting with Manning unsolicited. When asked, as I assume Roman was, I don't have as much problem with it. Don't need to believe it either.

But like when Indianapolis was going to pick Andrew Luck and didn't want Manning there mucking it all up, they didn't say to Manning, we think you are too old, no longer the player of yesteryear, don't have it in you. Don't want you here for 4-5 more years when Luck is the future. They said instead, "we like you but it's the neck injury and we don't know how that'll hold up". Everyone knew that once Irsay knew he had the first pick, he was looking out for the future and wanted Luck now. Sure, the injury was and is a big deal, but they played that pretty strongly. The modified deal was probably much too low to be that reasonable.

Manning has plenty of leadership and doesn't need Irsay milking the injury, but he did. Irsay could have said Luck is the future, Manning the past, and that is a freaking big injury. Of course, the difference is that Andrew Luck (the outsider) looks to be better than Alex Smith and Manning (the insider) if healthy was better than Andrew Luck coming in. The same can't be said about Smith (the insider), and thus, the notion that these comments were made for his confidence. Just because Manning is better than Smith, doesn't mean that these comments by GMs and coaches aren't going to be geared for other reasons than propping up a non-leader, too. I'm sure it's a bit of that, but unnecessary, IMO.

It's not a true analogy, but my point is teams all the time say things that are more positive than they need to be, even to those who are established leaders, to those with all the confidence in the world. It's not surprising nor prudential to not do the same for those who are not established. There's just no good reason to state the negative. I'm sure Alex understands that it's Peyton Freakin' Manning. While these comments do bug me, I don't see the need to answer it any differently, especially with anything differing from Harbaugh would be blown up more for its inconsistency than content.

What point are you trying to make here?

 

[Flyingiguana]

So if Alex signed it from the get go, you don't think they would've (secretively) flown to the East Coast to watch Manning throw?

doubt it.

obviously there's interest if they're evaluating. the guy is coming off a major injury, gotta be careful in that situation. they should have just come out and said 'of course we were intrigued, anytime u can add a hall of fame player u look at it'

 

[MHSL82]

What point are you trying to make here?

That I don't think Alex Smith needs all these public comments as much as some say. That his leadership has been under question even without this over the top statements that appear to be made to prop him up. That other coaches say these type of things to cover what really happened, and just because this is done for Smith doesn't mean he especially fragile or that Harbaugh's unique in his comments. I do think Harbaugh goes to further lengths than other coaches, but to me, if you do it, you do it. If you don't, you don't. It's all style from there. I do think Smith is effected by negative talk and likes recognition. But I don't think he needs Harbaugh and Roman every few months saying it. He just appreciates not being thrown under the bus - if he fails, bench him.

He obviously does care, as he said - "I don't want to speak for the other guys, but it's nice to have a coach who isn't going to publicly throw you under the bus," Smith said. "There are a lot of things that happen on the practice field and in games that people don't always see or get credit for. And I love the fact that he let's that be known."

Harbaugh's methods show power of positive coaching - 49ers - The Sacramento Bee

This doesn't include exaggerating it, though. I think the elite comments were wrong and that they weren't necessary. But public blame bugs all athletes and Smith thinks it's cool Harbaugh lets other know what he, Gore, Davis, etc. do that do not show up on a stat sheet. I think the elite comments were more for Harbaugh's sake of disliking criticism, skepticism, etc. of "them", the media. Even though he says it, I think Harbaugh knows he can't change the facts or totally manipulate the narrative. The media doesn't now say Smith is elite because he said so.

 

[MHSL82]

I must amend my novel. I suppose if I say the comments are well over the top, I can't chalk this off to style. So I'm wrong there, but I still don't think anything that is above normal coach's positive comments (or at least neutral) or whatever is needed for Smith, at least not the extent of the "OMG, what does this say about Smith's psyche" comments. I'm sure he didn't ask for it nor comes up to Harbaugh and confirms that that is what he needed. Harbaugh is over the top with other positions and players, too. He likes normal credit for things, for things that are not stats, but it's not like he would collapse if those were just private. Publically negative things, of which I don't believe "It was Peyton Freaking Manning" is negative, bugs all athletes, whether they say it or not. Individually though, I do think Smith needs to have that trust with his coaches, where as some will say F it, I'm going to give him no choice but to keep me. (Not that that always works, either.)

 

[Bemular]

What point are you trying to make here?

That I don't think Alex Smith needs all these public comments as much as some say.

Thanks.

 

[MHSL82]

Thanks.

You're welcome! I know my comments are long. In college, I always spent a lot of time cutting my paper down to the minimum, cutting out things I wanted to say. I don't feel like doing that here, it's not important enough. People can ignore the longer posts and they do. People will cut my posts short like you do. People skim and that leads to misunderstandings, but if I wrote the explanation and they skipped over it and then call me on something that I explained but they didn't read, that's on them. I do try to cut out some things so they don't have to skim, but it's not a priority. When I write, I try to be more clear and rid some superfluous words, but I'm not going to worry about it too much.

 

[Bemular]

You're welcome! I know my comments are long. In college, I always spent a lot of time cutting my paper down to the minimum, cutting out things I wanted to say. I don't feel like doing that here, it's not important enough. People can ignore the longer posts and they do. People will cut my posts short like you do. People skim and that leads to misunderstandings, but if I wrote the explanation and they skipped over it and then call me on something that I explained but they didn't read, that's on them. I do try to cut out some things so they don't have to skim, but it's not a priority. When I write, I try to be more clear and rid some superfluous words, but I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Here is some sage advice from Albert:

"If you can't explain it to a 6-year old, you don't understand it yourself"