Returning Big 10 numbers

[Big Red Said]

Yeah, I have already posted about all the penalties. 2011 was MUCH better than 2010.

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/nebraska-cornhuskers/24434-year-penalty.html

Apparently I have forgotten to go in after the Capital One bowl and add those penalties in. I will do that this week.

But turnovers definitely continue to be an issue. Not even complete turnovers. Just fumbling the ball at all even if we get them back. Taylor himself has 29 of Nebraska's 77 fumbles over the last 2 years. He didn't lose many of them but they are still drive killers.

Yes... this ^^^^^ is a BIG DEAL.... but most people are just thankful that we did not lose the ball in those situations.. and rightfully so, but what about the wasted down... the fact that our "D" got 2 or 3 plays to rest between possessions... and so on... it is a BIG DEAL... no doubt!

 

[Brasky]

Since 2008 Alabama is +45 in turnover margin. Virginia Tech is +47, and Ohio State is +53.

Nebraska is -8.


Let me say that again NEBRASKA IS MINUS FUCKING EIGHT IN TURNOVER MARGIN.

It's a god damn miracle we've won as many games as we have under Bo.

 

[NDHoosier101]

IU was only last in one category, but we only won one game(for what that's worth).

 

[Big Red Said]

Yeah here just click on the tabs. Let me know if it doesn't work:



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Excellent stats that cannot be refuted!!!

Look who the top dogs are each year and where they finished...

"Game, Set, Match"

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

I know technically Ball tied the TD record but lets be real. He tied it in 14 games. Barry Sanders' record is for 11 games and does not include his 5 TD performance in 3 quarters of play in the Holiday Bowl that year.

In his defense he said B1G history but I still find that to be one of the most arrogant statements ever. There have been some great offenses through out history. I used 94 Penn State.
1994 - No losses
#2 in Nation at end of year


Ki-Jana Carter
Jeff Hartings
Joe Jurevicius
Kerry Collins
OJ McDuffie
Bobby Engram
Kyle Brady

BIG 10 PLAY
Iowa 61–21
Michigan 31–24
Ohio State 63–14
Indiana 35–29
Illinois 35–31
Northwestern 45–17
Michigan State 59-31

And this was with Paterno pulling starters halfway through the third quarter.
And I think it was Illinois they came from 21 points behind to win.

This should of been Penn State / Nebraska in a championship game that year.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

Nevermind Jed, I just read the quote you responded to.

SMH

 

[Big Red Said]

Since 2008 Alabama is +45 in turnover margin. Virginia Tech is +47, and Ohio State is +53.

Nebraska is -8.


Let me say that again NEBRASKA IS MINUS FUCKING EIGHT IN TURNOVER MARGIN.

It's a god damn miracle we've won as many games as we have under Bo.

The good news could be... how the hell good could we be if we can resolve this issue?

Ever hear Bo talk about consistency... this comment encompasses this issue as well as everything else. We cannot allow ourselves to be our own worst enemy...

 

[Big Red Said]

Got to go gents... have a couple of things to do but will return... thanks for the good reads.....

 

[Smart]

In his defense he said B1G history but I still find that to be one of themost arrogant statements ever. There have been some good offenses through out history. I used 94 Penn State.
1994 - No losses
#2 in Nation at end of year


Ki-Jana Carter
Jeff Hartings
Joe Jurevicius
Kerry Collins
OJ McDuffie
Bobby Engram
Kyle Brady

BIG 10 PLAY
Iowa 61–21
Michigan 31–24
Ohio State 63–14
Indiana 35–29
Illinois 35–31
Northwestern 45–17
Michigan State 59-31

And this was with Paterno pulling starters halfway through the third quarter.
And I think it was Illinois they came from 21 points behind to win.

This should of been Penn State / Nebraska in a championship game that year.

PSU's a good call, though I disagree with your conclusion. They were pretty much the same caliber of offense as us.

In our four B1G home games, our first team offense scored TDs on 27 of 42, which is an absolutely insane efficiency rate. I don't have PSU's stats in front of me, but I really doubt they can boast numbers like that. PSU did put up huge numbers at home as well, but not any better than ours.

On the road, both of us clobbered a mid-major, though we clobbered a better mid-major. Both of us scored at will against Minnesota. That leaves three games for both of us. We scored 31, 29, and 28 against MSU, OSU, and Illinois, all top 30 defenses with great records at home. They put up 35, 35, and 31 against three great defenses in Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. If it sounds like these two teams had similar offensive seasons, it's because we did.

However, there are a few reasons which tilt the balance towards us:

1. We committed less turnovers. Our first team offense only committed five turnovers all year. I don't have the full numbers, but Kerry Collins committed two more than that by himself.

2. Penn State may have scored roughly as many points, but they passed the ball a much higher percentage of the time, making their scores quicker.

3. Our passing game has nearly universally better numbers. Running numbers are more or less similar, with the difference being that Montee's YPC were lower because he was the "end of game, run it down the throat RB."

As for the players you listed, I truly believe:

Russell Wilson> Kerry Collins
Montee Ball> Ki-Jana Carter
Peter Konz> Jeff Hartings

I'd be willing to debate any of those. Obviously, the PSU WRs were better.

Disclaimer: I was born in 1991, so I can't give a full evaluation of Penn State. I have seen replays of three games from that season: the Illinois game, the Michigan game, and the Rose Bowl.

 

[Brasky]

Excellent stats that cannot be refuted!!!

Look who the top dogs are each year and where they finished...

"Game, Set, Match"

Another good question: Is Turnover Margin more a matter of good coaching or is it like I said a combination of skill mentality and luck?

Looking at the teams who have been the best in that department... All great coaches.

Stoops, Beamer (that's right jed, beamer), Saban, Gundy, C. Kelly, Petersen, Patterson, Miles.

All run programs that are top 10 in turnover margin from 2008 on.

 

[Brasky]

And a good many of those coaches were not working with elite level talent.


If you look at it like that, turnover margin is likely more about good coaching than it is about talent.


Great coaching translates to great turnover margin which clearly translates to great success on the football field.

It's glaring.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

PSU's a good call, though I disagree with your conclusion. They were pretty much the same caliber of offense as us.

In our four B1G home games, our first team offense scored TDs on 27 of 42, which is an absolutely insane efficiency rate. I don't have PSU's stats in front of me, but I really doubt they can boast numbers like that. PSU did put up huge numbers at home as well, but not any better than ours.

On the road, both of us clobbered a mid-major, though we clobbered a better mid-major. Both of us scored at will against Minnesota. That leaves three games for both of us. We scored 31, 29, and 28 against MSU, OSU, and Illinois, all top 30 defenses with great records at home. They put up 35, 35, and 31 against three great defenses in Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. If it sounds like these two teams had similar offensive seasons, it's because we did.

However, there are a few reasons which tilt the balance towards us:

1. We committed less turnovers. Our first team offense only committed five turnovers all year. I don't have the full numbers, but Kerry Collins committed two more than that by himself.

2. Penn State may have scored roughly as many points, but they passed the ball a much higher percentage of the time, making their scores quicker.

3. Our passing game has nearly universally better numbers. Running numbers are more or less similar, with the difference being that Montee's YPC were lower because he was the "end of game, run it down the throat RB."

As for the players you listed, I truly believe:

Russell Wilson> Kerry Collins
Montee Ball> Ki-Jana Carter
Peter Konz> Jeff Hartings

I'd be willing to debate any of those. Obviously, the PSU WRs were better.

Disclaimer: I was born in 1991, so I can't give a full evaluation of Penn State. I have seen replays of three games from that season: the Illinois game, the Michigan game, and the Rose Bowl.

You had some good players and you can believe what you wish about who is better because frankly we will never know and it is a frivolous debate. I can bring in the argument that the Big 10 was in it's hay day then and Wisconsin 2011 played in a conference that is off it's game right now.
We can argue all stats and I will still come back to the competition.
The bottom line in a lesser conference Wisconsin lost 2 games and finished the season 11-2. Penn State ran the table 12-0 (11 regular season games) and the only reason they did not end up #1 is because they did not blow out Indiana so Nebraska went ahead of them in the polls.

You can not have the best offense in history and lose 3 games. It is simple as that.

 

[Smart]

And a good many of those coaches were not working with elite level talent.


If you look at it like that, turnover margin is likely more about good coaching than it is about talent.


Great coaching translates to great turnover margin which clearly translates to great success on the football field.

It's glaring.

It really comes down to two positions: QB and RB. If you have a quarterback who understands not to take silly risks and has the arm strength and accuracy to make it happen, the turnovers will go away. At RB, players need to be taught to simply hold the ball properly, but there is a natural grip and attentiveness factor when it comes to holding on to the ball.

If you look at Wisconsin, we have had a staggering change in turnover number over the last few years, and we had the fewest in the country in each of the last two seasons. It came down to Scott Tolzien and Russell Wilson really learning from Chryst, and figuring out how to avoid errors. At RB, we have been blessed to have Montee Ball, a guy who just is incredibly cognizant of where the ball is (to the point where he has NEVER lost a fumble at Wisconsin). Coaching matters, but at some point, you need players who understand how not to make mistakes.

 

[oaknightshockey1]

It really comes down to two positions: QB and RB. If you have a quarterback who understands not to take silly risks and has the arm strength and accuracy to make it happen, the turnovers will go away. At RB, players need to be taught to simply hold the ball properly, but there is a natural grip and attentiveness factor when it comes to holding on to the ball.

If you look at Wisconsin, we have had a staggering change in turnover number over the last few years, and we had the fewest in the country in each of the last two seasons. It came down to Scott Tolzien and Russell Wilson really learning from Chryst, and figuring out how to avoid errors. At RB, we have been blessed to have Montee Ball, a guy who just is incredibly cognizant of where the ball is (to the point where he has NEVER lost a fumble at Wisconsin). Coaching matters, but at some point, you need players who understand how not to make mistakes.

i wish we could model our program after wisconsin....wait...

 

[Brasky]

i wish we could model our program after wisconsin....wait...

rep

 

[HawkeyeHater]

 

[jedburks]

Kerry Collins and Russel Wilson have much different skill sets and were asked to do much different things. I love Russell Wilson but I would take Collins over Wilson if I had to choose. I would probably lean toward Ki-Jana over Monte but that is basically a pick'em.

 

[Big Red Said]

i wish we could model our program after wisconsin....wait...

LOL... the thing is... Barry did it and it's working...

 

[Brasky]

It just makes me laugh that THAT wisconsin offense is the best in B1G history.

We saw better offenses in the Big 12 on a weekly basis. Just sayin.

 

[Smart]

It just makes me laugh that THAT wisconsin offense is the best in B1G history.

We saw better offenses in the Big 12 on a weekly basis. Just sayin.

Again, that just isn't true. Our QB had the SINGLE HIGHEST PASSER RATING in NCAA HISTORY. Our RB scored 39 TDs, which tied the NCAA record (and though Sanders did it in less games, he also had more carries). We only had 10 turnovers all year, and half of them were committed by the second string. Our 44 PPG is a huge number, especially considering that we are a clock eating offense who doesn't strike quickly. It's too bad that nobody effectively tracks efficiency in football like Pomeroy does in basketball, because if they did, I feel pretty confident we would be right up there with all time greats.

I also think NFL evaluators prove how good our team is. Going starter by starter:
Russell Wilson (3rd round draft pick. Nearly everyone agrees he would have been a top ten pick had he been 6'2 or taller. 6th QB drafted)
Montee Ball (Projected 2nd-3rd Round pick, ranked as top 5 RB prospect)
Bradie Ewing (Fifth Round Pick, #1 FB Drafted this year)
Nick Toon (4th round draft pick, 18th WR off board)
Jared Abbredaris (Projected 3rd-4th rounder)
Jacob Pedersen (Projected 3rd round pick)
Josh Oglesby (Undrafted due to chronic knee concerns, but was Consensus First Team All B1G)
Kevin Zeitler (First round draft pick, #2 OG off the board)
Peter Konz (Second Round pick, #1 C on the board)
Travis Frederick (Projected First Rounder, #1 Ranked OG in next class)
Ricky Wagner (Projected First Rounder, #2 Overall according to McShay, #1 or #2 OT in class)

So that gives us:
- Three players drafted in first or projected to go in first
- A fourth who is universally considered to have the skill set of a first rounder
- Two others taken or projected to go in second
- Three either taken in third or projected to go in third
- One taken in fourth and one in fifth
- Four guys considered the best at their position in their class
- Only player not taken or projected to be taken in first five rounds was Consensus All-Conference Player

I'd be interested in seeing how many Big 12 offenses can match up with the results and pedigree of our offense. My guess is that there aren't very many.