Reports: Warriors serious threat to sign Kevin Durant!

[tlance]

Never said they needed to be equal or that Rodman was not essential to the Bulls winning. He was.

That does not make the Bulls a big 3. 80's Celtics and Lakers were totally different, but I agree that they fit the Big 3 model.

The Bad Boy Pistons, not even close. Nor were the Hawks because you can't even tell me who the big 3 were.

Ray Allen was essential to the Heat's last title, so I guess they had a big 4, right?

Kukoc, Ron Harper and Longley were important too, so did the Bulls have a big 7?

 

[tlance]

By the way, I said that there needs to be some balance between the 3 stars, I never said they had to be equal.

Dennis Rodman is the text book example of a role player. You can't just declare him part of a big 3 because he was good at his job. Every other legit example consists of versatile, dynamic players who were considered to be among the games biggest stars.

Rodman wasn't that. In fact, If Rodman was so well regarded around the league, then why was he dealt straight up for Will Perdue in the off season? the reason was because most teams wanted nothing to do with Dennis Rodman and his antics. It took all of Phil Jackson's brilliance to make the relationship work. The general thought around the league was that his play was not good enough to outweigh the distraction. I don't think there was another locker room in the league that could have handled it.

Without Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson, Rodman would have been remembered as a talented player who lost his mind.

 

[trojanfan12]

Dennis was a specialty player. But, dominate in the one thing he did best.

I don't care what generation coined the phrase, nor where it derived from.

Magic/ Kaj/ Worthy....big 3.

Bird/ McHale/ Psrrish.....big 3

Thomas/Acguire/ Lambier or even Dumars....big 3

Jordan/Pippen/Rodman.....maybe Grant...maybe not.

All pre-Garnett going to the Celtics or James to the Heat.

I completely disagree that all 3 guys need equality because somebody always has to sacrifice some part of their game for the greater good.

Rodman was integral to that team winning even if he didn't score a point.

If guys going to the All star team is the barometer for judging big 3's then I guess Atlanta had one last year.

 

[handicappers]

He will be with the cavs before gs easily

 

[redseat]

I agree, and you're not alone in that line of thinking - when your team has just won a championship, you look to make changes only if necessary and you don't mess with success until you have to. I like Kevin Durant, but I don't think he would be a good fit for the Lakers either. The Warriors are following the pattern the Warriors went and they just might have their core built if they get the third top draft pick this year. Kevin Durant is not exactly a young player and needs to go to a team that would be a contender instantly.

Exactly. I could see bringing in Durant if the Warriors were losing and not winning games and blowing out people. This team can and easily could win the title without him. Could the Warriors wait out this season and they potentially next year get him? IF at all that is.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Never said they needed to be equal or that Rodman was not essential to the Bulls winning. He was.

That does not make the Bulls a big 3. 80's Celtics and Lakers were totally different, but I agree that they fit the Big 3 model.

The Bad Boy Pistons, not even close. Nor were the Hawks because you can't even tell me who the big 3 were.

Ray Allen was essential to the Heat's last title, so I guess they had a big 4, right?

Kukoc, Ron Harper and Longley were important too, so did the Bulls have a big 7?

Semantics, Sir.

You said in order to be a big 3 there had to be balance between the 3 stars.

Equality, balance..sort of the same thing.

But, I guess we can agree to disagree.

I just don't think a guys contributions can be judged by looking at a stat sheet and I totally see the Bulls as a big 3.

 

[tlance]

Semantics, Sir.

You said in order to be a big 3 there had to be balance between the 3 stars.

Equality, balance..sort of the same thing.

But, I guess we can agree to disagree.

I just don't think a guys contributions can be judged by looking at a stat sheet and I totally see the Bulls as a big 3.

You can look at it that way if you want, but the original big 3, the 2007 Celts had 3 of the top 15 players in the league. The Heat had 3 top 10 players. All 6 of these players were good enough to be, and had been franchise players on their own. Rodman was not even close to that.

The Bulls were 2 superstars among the best to ever play, and a collection of role players. This is not about stats, it is about team dynamics.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

You can look at it that way if you want, but the original big 3, the 2007 Celts had 3 of the top 15 players in the league. The Heat had 3 top 10 players. All 6 of these players were good enough to be, and had been franchise players on their own. Rodman was not even close to that.

The Bulls were 2 superstars among the best to ever play, and a collection of role players. This is not about stats, it is about team dynamics.

LMFAO...He is in the HoF.

Last time I checked, most of those guys had some type of elite skill.

He played in an era where there were a ton of great PF's and he excelled.

He is a 2-time Defensive player of the year and led the NBA in rebounding SEVEN times.

Not to mention, he routinely locked down, or at the very least irritated the hell out of, the oppositions best player.

That is not a role player.


Rodman's accomplishments...

Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Class of 2011

5-time NBA Champion: 1989, 1990, 1996, 1997, 1998

2-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 1990, 1991

IBM Award: 1992

8-time NBA All-Defensive Selection

• First Team: 1989-93, 1995, 1996
• Second Team: 1994

2-time All-NBA Third Team: 1992, 1995

2-time NBA All-Star: 1990, 1992

Ranked #48 on the 2009 revision of SLAM Magazine's Top 50 Players of All-time

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

A guy who is seen as a top 10 PF in the history of the NBA is not a role player.

This article is only like 2 weeks old.

All-time #NBArank: Top 10 power forwards ever

 

[tlance]

A guy who is seen as a top 10 PF in the history of the NBA is not a role player.

This article is only like 2 weeks old.

All-time #NBArank: Top 10 power forwards ever

That is the problem with these all time debates though. Rodman was absolutely great at what he did, but at the same time wildly overrated. He was one of the greatest role players ever, but a role player all the same. Yet, he gets lumped in with the all time greats because he was a member of 5 championship teams.

# of championships won seem to be the primary barometer of all time greatness for individuals, yet no individual would ever win without his teammates. Put Jordan on the Nuggets instead of the Bulls, and he has zero rings. Would that really make him less great though?

Now, because Rodman was the third best player on the 3 time champion Bulls, and the 3rd or 4th best player on the Pistons, he goes down as an all time great. Yet, there were at least 4 players in last nights' game alone that are better than Rodman overall.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

That is the problem with these all time debates though. Rodman was absolutely great at what he did, but at the same time wildly overrated. He was one of the greatest role players ever, but a role player all the same. Yet, he gets lumped in with the all time greats because he was a member of 5 championship teams.

# of championships won seem to be the primary barometer of all time greatness for individuals, yet no individual would ever win without his teammates. Put Jordan on the Nuggets instead of the Bulls, and he has zero rings. Would that really make him less great though?

Now, because Rodman was the third best player on the 3 time champion Bulls, and the 3rd or 4th best player on the Pistons, he goes down as an all time great. Yet, there were at least 4 players in last nights' game alone that are better than Rodman overall.

Again, I disagree.

Championships won was never part of my argument, purposely.

Look at Robert Horry. Doesn't he have like 7?

Hell, Adam Morrison has a ring...lol.

But, how can you ignore his other accomplishments?

Being in the Hof is based on individual merits, not Team success.

What about his 7 rebounding titles?

His All defensive Team honors?

His All NBA third Team honors?

Sorry, role players don't have those types of resumes.

 

[tlance]

Sure they do. He did 2 things. Played great defense and was arguably the best rebounder ever. He did very little on the offensive end, hence role player.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Sure they do. He did 2 things. Played great defense and was arguably the best rebounder ever. He did very little on the offensive end, hence role player.

So, unless you score alot points you are a role player?



Bill Russell, Wes Unseld.

* waits for Lakers fans *

 

[tlance]

So, unless you score alot points you are a role player?



Bill Russell, Wes Unseld.

* waits for Lakers fans *

No. Both of those guys were far more involved in the offense than Rodman even though they were not big scorers. Both also won League MVP awards.

Rodman, on the other hand, was never even the second best player on his own team. The only time you can even make the case that he was, was SA in the early 90s. Still, if you ask his teammates from that squad, I bet they would tell you Sean Elliot was # 2.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

No. Both of those guys were far more involved in the offense than Rodman even though they were not big scorers. Both also won League MVP awards.

Rodman, on the other hand, was never even the second best player on his own team. The only time you can even make the case that he was, was SA in the early 90s. Still, if you ask his teammates from that squad, I bet they would tell you Sean Elliot was # 2.

Really?

Wes Unseld averaged 13ppg the year he won Mvp.

He averaged less than 11 for his career.

It pretty clear that you have your feet dug in about Dennis.

But, his resume speaks for itself.

Not a role player. An elite rebounder and defender who changed the outcome of games without ever needing to score a point.

 

[tlance]

unsled averaged 10.8 points and 3.9 assists for his career.

Rodman averaged 7.3 points and 1.8 assists.

Also, for those who think steals and blocks are a good way to evaluate defense, Rodman averaged .7 steals and .6 blocks for his career. He did not have a single season where he averaged at least 1 block or steal.

That does not make him any less of a defender, but I wanted to put that out there for those that overvalue simple stats.

Rodman absolutely changed games with his defense, but did almost nothing on the offensive end. That makes him a role player, regardless of how many defensive accolades he has piled up.

 

[Jack_John_Mark]

No way in hell

 

[ChrisGar15]

So, unless you score alot points you are a role player?



Bill Russell, Wes Unseld.

* waits for Lakers fans *

I agree. Let's say Rodman was as good as scoring as he was on defense. (and that he was as good on defense as he was on scoring)

Would he be a role player ? (no -- he wouldn't be)

This sounds like Dirk. (except Rodman was a much better rebounder)

 

[trojanfan12]

Not to mention, he routinely locked down, or at the very least irritated the hell out of, the oppositions best player.

He's still in Karl Malone's head.

 

[trojanfan12]

Rodman was part of a "big 3" in Chicago. While he was never exactly known for his offense, he was actually a bit more of a scorer in Detroit. In his highest scoring season, he averaged 11.8 points.

While, it was at a small college, he averaged 25.7 ppg in college.

He chose to be a "rebounder/defender for hire" in the NBA because he was always on teams with plenty of guys who could score. When you are playing alongside guys like Isaiah, The Microwave, Duncan, Robinson, MJ, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, etc. your scoring isn't really needed.