Remember All That Chris Paul Vs Deron Williams Debate?

[ChrisperJ10]

Anyways...

So after all these years, who would you pick to be your PG for the franchise if you were the owner?

 

[ChrisperJ10]

And after all these years, who had the most talent? And what did they do with that said talent?

Just curious to see what other posters think... :P

 

[starbigd]

Not sure why anyone would have ever taken Deron Williams over Chris Paul, outside of health reasons

 

[shitsho]

Anyways...

So after all these years, who would you pick to be your PG for the franchise if you were the owner?

Tony Parker. I once thought Deron would be the best PG in the league by a hair over CP3. D-Will when hurt is a 3rd string backup pg and he stays hurt a lot. He is also getting a rep as a coach killer. CP3 for all of his heart cannot get it done. I am starting to wonder if its him and not his teams. He has a tendency to pound the ball until late in the clock and he frequently is too short to get off a good shot when needed. Tony parker kills everyone he goes up against especially in a series. Until Kyrie comes of age I am riding with Parker.

 

[Black Adam]

Anyways...

So after all these years, who would you pick to be your PG for the franchise if you were the owner?

as it stands right now CP3, hands down...

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

If you like to never win anything and never get any criticism.

Then it would be CP3.

Teflon Kid CP3 might be the single most "free pass" guy in the league.

He gets nothing but praise when his teams win (rarely).

And he gets no blame when his teams lose (all the time).

And the excuse of his teammates talent is not really true.

David West, Tyson Chandler, Peja Stoyakovich, Blake Griffin, Jamal Crawford, Chauncey Billups, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and many countless others have all shown to be either all-stars or at least very good players WITHOUT CP3.

If you take a look at some of the players CP3 had, there is quite a bit of talent.

Almost all of them have had better individual and team success without CP3.

I suspect Blake Griffin will still be an all-star even if CP3 leaves to go play for another first round exit team.

Maybe its me..... but I think CP3 is the single most over-rated guy in the NBA.

 

[piss-tons]

I think CP3 is the best PG in the game, but he doesn't get crucified like Melo and other players for lack of postseason success. The farthest CP3 has made it is the second round I think.

 

[Clayton]

CP3 is probably the 3rd best player in the league, imo. He does have a couple of flaws (mostly his personality, imo)

Dwill has the size and a good outside shot but he never got any better and is hilariously unclutch.

 

[Clayton]

David West, Tyson Chandler, Peja Stoyakovich, Blake Griffin, Jamal Crawford, Chauncey Billups, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and many countless others have all shown to be either all-stars or at least very good players WITHOUT CP3.

 

[Sox33OSU]

When healthy, Kyrie Irving is a top 5 player overall.

When healthy being the key phrase.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Why is the argument LAME?

The common notion is that Chris Paul played on bad teams with no talent.
I counter that he played with a ton of talent in their prime.
All of them had exceptional careers WITHOUT Chris Paul.
All of them were under the age of 35 and relatively healthy when they played with CP3.....but they all failed with him.

Here is a sample of the superior Team and/or Individual successes of players in years without Chris Paul:


David West = 17/7 guy on a a team that made it to the 3rd round or further
Tyson Chandler = DPOY, NBA champion
Peja stoyakovic = 3 time allstar, top 5 MVP guy, NBA champion
Lamar Odom =2 time champion, 6th man of the year
Jamal Crawford = 6th man of the year, multiple 2nd round playoffs
Caron Buutler = 2 time NBA allstar
Chauncey Billups = NBA champion, 5 time allstar, 3 time top 10 MVP

All this was accomplished without Paul.

Everyone actually regressed and achieved worse things with CP3 either by team/individual merit.

 

[lakersrule]

I don't disagree with you Horns that CP3 seemingly gets a free pass. We'll see how much flack he gets for apparently running VDN out of town. Other star NBA players have been blasted for doing the same.

However, I don't think some of these players you mentioned as having regressed alongside CP3 is being fair. Lamar Odom's best days were behind him once he left the Lakers. CP3 had nothing to do with his issues. Same with Billups and Butler. Both players who were past their primes and also having to deal with injuries. Again, nothing having to do with CP3. Peja was also past his prime when playing with CP3, although he did shoot his best 3P% with CP3.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Its a fair debate.

I admit I have a biased dislike for Chris Paul.

I think the idolation is a joke relative to his achievements far more than easy targets like Melo or Lebrom.

It just seems to me that the "he doesn't have any talent" argument ignores the great talent he did have surrounding him.

 

[Clayton]

Its a fair debate.

It is not a fair debate. Lamar Odom is a D-league level player right now. He flamed out of Dallas. Caron Butler is a bench calibur player right now. Billips is likely out of the league next year or likely should be. Chandler was nothing before CP3 and it wasnt until he was surrounded by Marion and Kidd that he actually became the presence that he is today. David West is a legitimate player that was good with him and is good without him. He hasn't achieved greater success without CP3, however. Peja was out of the league after CP3, IIRC. This so called great supporting cast that the Hornets had that year ran into a late prime Spurs team as you know. CP3 has also improved his game since then, imo.

I haven't seen many of your posts but the gist Im getting is that you think everyone out West that isnt the Spurs is overrated.

 

[bksballer89]

Why is the argument LAME?

The common notion is that Chris Paul played on bad teams with no talent.
I counter that he played with a ton of talent in their prime.
All of them had exceptional careers WITHOUT Chris Paul.
All of them were under the age of 35 and relatively healthy when they played with CP3.....but they all failed with him.

Here is a sample of the superior Team and/or Individual successes of players in years without Chris Paul:


David West = 17/7 guy on a a team that made it to the 3rd round or further
Tyson Chandler = DPOY, NBA champion
Peja stoyakovic = 3 time allstar, top 5 MVP guy, NBA champion
Lamar Odom =2 time champion, 6th man of the year
Jamal Crawford = 6th man of the year, multiple 2nd round playoffs
Caron Buutler = 2 time NBA allstar
Chauncey Billups = NBA champion, 5 time allstar, 3 time top 10 MVP

All this was accomplished without Paul.

Everyone actually regressed and achieved worse things with CP3 either by team/individual merit.

The list looks good but truth of the matter most of those players were already past their prime and into the downside of their career when they played with CP3 outside of Chandler, West, and Crawford

Tyson Chandler- Chris Paul made Tyson Chandler. He was a bust before going to the Hornets

Lamar Odom- He is done. I don't care that he was the 6th man or a 2 time champ. Once the Lakers gave up on him it seems as if LO checked out.

Caron Butler- He is nothing special....Great for him that he was an AS 5 & 6 years ago.

Billups- He is another one who is done and is coming towards the end of his career

Peja- He was actually a good player with the Hornets in his first 2 years but he was not close to being the Sac version of Peja

David West- Pretty good with the Hornets but you're not making it to the WCF in a tough Western Conference with David West as your 2nd best player.

Your hate for CP3 is like certain posters hate for Lebron.

You really expected guys like Butler, Billups, Peja, and Odom who all were already past their prime by the time they joined CP3 to play like they were back in their prime again? Is this realistic?

Just for the record before his 2011-2012 year with the Knicks, Tyson Chandler never played a better 82 game regular season as he did with the Hornets when he avg 12 & 12 on 62% shooting

And as for David West his best numbers came with CP3. Now he is playing in a weaker conference with a much better coach. You don't think CP3 would be in 2nd round yearly if he played in the east?

 

[bksballer89]

I love the way you act like Crawford became such a bad player with CP3. The guy avg 16 PPG off the bench and would of been 6th man of the year if JR did not go nuts after the AS break. This was basically Crawford best season off the bench. This year and his 2010 yr with Atlanta were his best 2 years off the bench. His ATL numbers are slightly higher due to more MPG and more shots per game but the fg% and 3 pt % are almost identical.

Lame attempt to put CP3 down

 

[bksballer89]

I love the way you note that Peja won a title. You damn well know he was not much of a factor in Dallas winning the title.

I also love how you bring up that Chandler won a title. The 2011 Dallas team were a great team. You make it seem as if CP3 was holding him down. The 2011 Mavs team had Kidd, Marion, Dirk, Chandler, Barea, Terry, and Stevenson on that team.

The 2008 Hornets had Paul, Chandler, Peja, and West. I'm sorry but you're not going to get too far with those 3 as your best players after Paul and the role players on that team were Melvin Ely, Bonzi Wells, Morris Peterson, Jannero Pargo, Ryan Bowen, and Julian Wright. I don't believe any of those 6 guys are even in the league anymore