Rating the managers

[JohnU]

A fairly subjective story on who the writer thinks are the best in the dugout.
A couple of my observations: Boston Globe writer picking the Boston manager who just won the W.S. as his top choice -- kind of, what else did we expect?

As well, he picks Francona as his No. 3 guy, what else did we expect after the Valentine's Day massacre? Kinda plays to fan anger a little, I think. Francona DID do great work.

I think there is some puppy love for Bob Melvin too.

Also, remember ... Casey Stengel and Sparky Anderson are great managers -- with some of the best players ever.

Personally on this list: Roenicke is too high, Gibson is too low and I think the writer is being rather rude in his opinion of Matheny. Again, it's a Boston writer.

READ AND CHEW ON IT

 

[Clayton]

So the Red Sox manager and 2 guys with ties to the Red Sox in the top 3?

I don't think I have too much of a problem with John Farrell being #1. I'd personally have him in the top 5 but I think having him at #1 totally undersells the fact that David Ortiz was Babe Ruth/Barry Bonds/Superman in the World Series.

 

[JohnU]

Yeah, it seems the "survey" was pandering to the Boston readers ... if you can't like Francona for any other reason, you can at least hate Valentine and make Francona look good in comparison.

Farrell needs to pull another monkey out of his hat before he makes my No. 1 ranking.

I do think Melvin and Beane have accomplished minor miracles in Oakland.

 

[Clayton]

Honestly, Im not sure how Id rate coaches. Id have a slight preference to those who created a winning culture with younger players and built it up. Major preference towards winning in general. Slight preference towards the NL because you have to make more difficult decisions.

Bochy, Melvin, Maddon
Matheny, Hurdle, Farrell, Showalter, Black, Gibson

I think you're splitting hairs after those guys

 

[JohnU]

Maddon gets credit because the scribes have decided that success relates to payroll.
Maddon has talented players. What they earn for a salary is marginally connected to that.
Gardenhire got away with that for about 5 years, finally ran out of steam. Now, he's considered a gatekeeper.
That will happen to Madden too.
Bochy looked great when his pitchers were unbeatable.

It's all about intangibles, leadership, accountability, fairness, discipline. That's about the only way a manager can be measured. Winning a pennant and finishing 3rd is a matter of 2 wins a month. It's a real thin line.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Most people in the press today, know no more about baseball than you or I. They get paid to make a headline, and they aren't required to be experts. It's easy to say a winning manager is a genius and a losing manager is a dope... but it isn't always so. Peripherals like managing the media are only so important, while managing the egos is more important if they are always spilling to the media.

"Delegating to coaches" is a skill now ?? They always delegate to coaches, but no coach lasts long unless he's pushing what the manager wants to sell.

The average age in MLB is in the 20's... how responsible and hard working are your kids in their 20's ? These guys aren't much different, other than they are in better physical condition and make a lot more money. A good manager must be in charge, head of household, the first and last responsible party. Managers that just want to be a buddy get hosed by players. They need to help, and not be hated, but they're the boss, who should give all public credit to players, and take all public blame. They have to know when to kick ass, and when to kiss ass. Bad attitudes aren't always a managers fault. Players need to get along with their boss, all else equal. The media loses this point sometimes. The inmates running the asylum contributes to chaos.

Most importantly, they need to have a PhD in Baseball. Many of these guys concentrate too much on fluff, and not enough on meat and potatoes. They have a wealth of metrics to use for defensive alignment, pitch selection and matchups, but don't understand a steal situation from a pitch out situation. They run into DP's trying to keep from hitting into them. They are clueless to solving a slump, and allow the catcher to call the same pitch 3 consecutive times. I watch how offense moves, or tries to. Failed attempts in spund situations at least show managerial intelligence, where no play when there should be one truly expose managers on a nap.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I like Melvin, Bochy, Hurdle, Showalter. Gibson, Marheney, Scioscia and even McClendon reflect the system they grew up in and are solid managers. I was impressed Francona did as well without a veteran club and large payroll...lets see if he can repeat.

Washington, Roenicke, Gonzalez, Gibbons and Ventura practice bad science, IMO.

Mattingly and Sandberg got their jobs on their signature name, but not with their franchise...what's the point ? Jury's still out, but I saw nothing managerial skill special in either. You could say Gibson and Scioscia fall into that too, but both have shown to be sound managerial guys with different type rosters. Anyone can manage the All-Star team to a winning record.

Melvin is doing it on a roster starvation diet- and the ability to be on the page with Beane. It's amazing, really. Bud Black is intelligent, but just doesn't have a roster to compete. I thought the same thing about Jim Tracy when he was in CO.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I often thought it should be pretty easy to compare "great" managers, head coaches, etc. in all sports for common denominators...Wooden, Alston, Sparky, Woody, Phil, Lombardi, coach K, whoever...

I can come up with a few common things...first, they all had great players. They also had unrelenting work ethic, and were masters at their craft. They picked roles for players that made sense, and adjusted well when they needed to. I never heard anyone say they were their buddy when they were playing...later maybe, but it was a DIFFERENT relationship at the time. There are clues there.