Rank the Most Important Positions

[Rockinkuwait]

Some think cause of money and draft position that it's not an important position on the field.

Not saying that. Saying it's less important that many other positions.

If you are running a business and have 200k to spend on advertising for, hiring and paying 2 new employees, and one is more valuable to fill than the other, which are you paying more and spending more to obtain?

What positions do teams spend the most on, give up the most in trades for, franchise the most often to keep, use the highest picks on?

QB's, LT's, and pass rushers. I'd agree those are the most important positions for a team, just like the GM's that use the more of their limited capital to fill those positions do.

What positions do you think centers are more valuable than?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Doesnt change the importance of that position. While it would change when you draft one.
Without a good center you have an inconsistent line. With that you basically have a shitty line. No team has every won a superbowl with a shitty line.
They have won superbowls while lacking in just about every high profile position.

Centers are a very important position. BTW they are doing more than just block.

I'm all in on the C being an important position but I wanted to correct you on this point in bold.

Granted, this is when Ben thought he was Superman's little brother.

2008...Ben was sacked 46 times...they did not have a 1000 yd rusher that season...in spite of that, they won the SB vs AZ that season.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Not saying that. Saying it's less important that many other positions.

If you are running a business and have 200k to spend on advertising for, hiring and paying 2 new employees, and one is more valuable to fill than the other, which are you paying more and spending more to obtain?

What positions do teams spend the most on, give up the most in trades for, franchise the most often to keep, use the highest picks on?

QB's, LT's, and pass rushers. I'd agree those are the most important positions for a team, just like the GM's that use the more of their limited capital to fill those positions do.

What positions do you think centers are more valuable than?

I'll go the opposite here...the positions that are clearly more valuable...QB, LT, RT, Edge, CB1.

After that it's debatable.

 

[SteelersPride]

Lolol another one lololol

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I'll go the opposite here...the positions that are clearly more valuable...QB, LT, RT, Edge, CB1.

After that it's debatable.

I think RT is moving up the chain a bit with pass rushers now moving around a lot more. Used to be your real rusher was always on the right side of the D line (opposite the LT), and only a few were known for playing the other side. But now you see those speed rushers moved around so much especially on passing downs. But I'd be with you there, QB, edge protectors, edge rushers, primary corner, mismatch or primary pass catcher.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I'm all in on the C being an important position but I wanted to correct you on this point in bold.

Granted, this is when Ben thought he was Superman's little brother.

2008...Ben was sacked 46 times...they did not have a 1000 yd rusher that season...in spite of that, they won the SB vs AZ that season.

I've always believed sack rates are more QB related than O-line. Check out the years Brady and Peyton went down or the years Peyton moved teams. If you've got a QB not using his athleticism to buy time who dumps off or throws away at 3 seconds no matter what, those sack rates will look good despite how an O-line is playing (Tony Ugoh was LT for one of the best pass blocking lines the past 10-15 years... because Peyton was his QB). I'm sure if you took a look, since Big Ben has been less of a break contain and hold out for the big play guy the past 4 or so years, that line has looked a lot better in pass protection.

That said, I think they had Starks and Colon that year who were much better run blockers than pass blockers. And Hartwig was a mess around then. Kinda played opposite of where you'd want your strengths for an O-line. And no backs who could break the big one (Parker wasn't "fast Willie" anymore). So yeah, that would be a poor line when it came to winning a SB.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I've always believed sack rates are more QB related than O-line. Check out the years Brady and Peyton went down or the years Peyton moved teams. If you've got a QB not using his athleticism to buy time who dumps off or throws away at 3 seconds no matter what, those sack rates will look good despite how an O-line is playing (Tony Ugoh was LT for one of the best pass blocking lines the past 10-15 years... because Peyton was his QB). I'm sure if you took a look, since Big Ben has been less of a break contain and hold out for the big play guy the past 4 or so years, that line has looked a lot better in pass protection.

That said, I think they had Starks and Colon that year who were much better run blockers than pass blockers. And Hartwig was a mess around then. Kinda played opposite of where you'd want your strengths for an O-line. And no backs who could break the big one (Parker wasn't "fast Willie" anymore). So yeah, that would be a poor line when it came to winning a SB.

Agreed to a point on sacks...most that occur beyond 3 secs you have to put some of that on the QB, also could be a RB missing a block too so you're right in that its not 100% OL.

Even in this case it was combination of both thus the superman comment about Ben....back then he was the king of extending the play (i.e. holding the football), but make no mistake, that was a bad OL.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think RT is moving up the chain a bit with pass rushers now moving around a lot more. Used to be your real rusher was always on the right side of the D line (opposite the LT), and only a few were known for playing the other side. But now you see those speed rushers moved around so much especially on passing downs. But I'd be with you there, QB, edge protectors, edge rushers, primary corner, mismatch or primary pass catcher.

Primary pass catcher, that guy is more valuable than the C as well.

I think as OLs go, we know it's a collective group, so you don't need studs at every position...if you have strong OGs, you can get away with a marginal talent at C. Conversely if you are strong at C, you can get away with 1 of your OGs being just a guy, but not both (Falcons).

OT...either side, I'm finding with the exception of the very top draft picks (even some of those require some time) OT is becoming a learned position more and more at the NFL level. If you're not getting a top 10 draft guy, doesn't mean he won't be a good player...coaching means a lot more it seems now. PIT's starting LT, was not drafted. Played some TE, maybe some DE or DT too I think....Villanueva...and before him the starter was Beachum who was I think a 6 or 7th rounder iirc.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

OT...either side, I'm finding with the exception of the very top draft picks (even some of those require some time) OT is becoming a learned position more and more at the NFL level. If you're not getting a top 10 draft guy, doesn't mean he won't be a good player...coaching means a lot more it seems now. PIT's starting LT, was not drafted. Played some TE, maybe some DE or DT too I think....Villanueva...and before him the starter was Beachum who was I think a 6 or 7th rounder iirc.

Love your bit on the OT. I agree there, reminds me of Jason Peters. A monster TE in college, undrafted with the move to OT for the draft. And at his peak, man that guy was as good as anyone to play the position.

I remember about 10-12 years ago noticing that of every single playoff team, their left tackles were all taken in the first 50 picks (and all had that elite reach measurement), but now they are coming from lower spots.

I wonder if part of that was LT's were so easy to scout before the spread option stuff in college took over. Where you always had that guy on an island vs. an elite pass rusher, and it was something you couldn't hide if he was losing those battles, so you knew who was a 1st round pick and who was a project.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Agreed to a point on sacks...most that occur beyond 3 secs you have to put some of that on the QB, also could be a RB missing a block too so you're right in that its not 100% OL.

Even in this case it was combination of both thus the superman comment about Ben....back then he was the king of extending the play (i.e. holding the football), but make no mistake, that was a bad OL.

Yeah I'd agree... I just think if he had that same exact line today his sack rate might be cut in half from then.

And yeah, there scheme fit that. They didn't dink and dunk for 5 yards, they ran for those yards. Then Ben got the big drop, play action 9 route stuff vs. single coverage. I think his first couple years he probably looked a bit better because it was throwing when it was a good situation to throw. Then I believe it was his 3rd year the D and run game weren't quite elite and he became a throw all the time QB and struggled a bit to adjust (and Pitt was going outside of what they wanted to do). Then really became a QB that could efficiently throw for volume and in those situations you know they have to throw often.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Yep... I’ve dug my heels in on two topics.
1. I don’t think Centers are important as QB, DE, LT, CB1, WR1 etc
2. Wentz is better then Dak

Real outlandish shit right there!

Centers are way more important than a WR1. QB/LT/CB1/DE I'll give you that.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Not saying that. Saying it's less important that many other positions.

If you are running a business and have 200k to spend on advertising for, hiring and paying 2 new employees, and one is more valuable to fill than the other, which are you paying more and spending more to obtain?

What positions do teams spend the most on, give up the most in trades for, franchise the most often to keep, use the highest picks on?

QB's, LT's, and pass rushers. I'd agree those are the most important positions for a team, just like the GM's that use the more of their limited capital to fill those positions do.

What positions do you think centers are more valuable than?

QB/LT/DE/CB1 is what I would start out with. Need a solid C to anchor the line to make sure the QB stays upright.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Centers are way more important than a WR1. QB/LT/CB1/DE I'll give you that.

QB/LT/DE/CB1 is what I would start out with. Need a solid C to anchor the line to make sure the QB stays upright.

dont look now, but that would make centers pretty important.
Basically saying far from least important!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yeah I'd agree... I just think if he had that same exact line today his sack rate might be cut in half from then.

And yeah, there scheme fit that. They didn't dink and dunk for 5 yards, they ran for those yards. Then Ben got the big drop, play action 9 route stuff vs. single coverage. I think his first couple years he probably looked a bit better because it was throwing when it was a good situation to throw. Then I believe it was his 3rd year the D and run game weren't quite elite and he became a throw all the time QB and struggled a bit to adjust (and Pitt was going outside of what they wanted to do). Then really became a QB that could efficiently throw for volume and in those situations you know they have to throw often.

The best Steeler investment in the OL has been Mike Munchak...Tomlin really lucked out here. He knows his stuff and more importantly, knows how to communicate it. IMO, PIT is already in position to go younger at LG and RT...they may extend Foster for 1 more to close out with Ben in '19.

Ben...the biggest difference in his play imo should be attributed to Haley. Arians and Ben were probably too chummy...the Steelers did not have a premier RB then, but it was a pass happy game that ultimately got Bruce out and Haley in...he came with some marching orders imo from the FO to integrate the short passing game/running game, less hits on the QB. They butted heads often, but at some point Ben came to respect the dump off pass and some of Haley's short passing concepts...of course Bell came along during this period so the results were pretty easy for Ben to accept....less hits, same or better production. Haley imo is not a great playcaller if your goal is to win a SB. But he has had some positive impact on Ben's game today.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

[QUOTE="jerseyhawksfan79, post: 12620458, member: 4407"]Centers are way more important than a WR1. QB/LT/CB1/DE I'll give you that.[/QUOTE]

IDK about way more, especially in this era. Falcons are a pretty good case study for this.

Pre-Julio...McClure was the longtime C, very productive player. Roddy White at that time was the WR1 (he really was a WR2 in skills)...Falcons could win reg. season games but once they got to the playoffs, much like CIN, 1 and done several yrs in a row.

They splurge to get Julio in '11, '12 they get their 1st playoff win...McClure retires, they insert a draft pick played C in college, but had failed as a RG, the OL play tanked, they bring Alex Mack at C, OL play rebounded....until this yr when both OGs went down and RT was shaky.

Your WR1 doesn't need to be a star, but he needs to be a consistent player getting roughly 100-120 targets per yr in this era...if you don't have that guy, it's tough to win consistently.

 

[handicappers]

Yep... I’ve dug my heels in on two topics.
1. I don’t think Centers are important as QB, DE, LT, CB1, WR1 etc
2. Wentz is better then Dak

Real outlandish shit right there!

Wrong

Dak beat Wentz not once, but twice this year.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Centers are way more important than a WR1. QB/LT/CB1/DE I'll give you that.

So Antonio Brown and Jason Kelce were all pro last season. You telling me if you had your choice you’d take Kelce over Antonio Brown? Not even close
Your tackles keep the QB upright

 

[SteelersPride]

So Antonio Brown and Jason Kelce were all pro last season. You telling me if you had your choice you’d take Kelce over Antonio Brown? Not even close
Your tackles keep the QB upright

Juju sure did ok stepping in the whole line keeps the qb up, and the center directs the tackles

 

[handicappers]

"centers aren't important"

"don't they call our blocking schemes and hike the ball correctly"?

"that doesn't count.....durrrrr di derp"

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

"centers aren't important"

"don't they call our blocking schemes and hike the ball correctly"?

"that doesn't count.....durrrrr di derp"

Hike the ball. Wow... that’s really an elite skill right there.