Rank the Most Important Positions

[jerseyhawksfan79]

you have met @PhoenixEagles1 he doesnt have opinions, only facts

The thing with him is other people's opinion he thinks are facts.

 

[SteelersPride]

The thing with him is other people's opinion he thinks are facts.

thats getting too deepn for him to comprehend

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

thats getting too deepn for him to comprehend

When he digs his heels in, nobody is right.

 

[SteelersPride]

When he digs his heels in, nobody is right.

sooo. always

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

sooo. always

It always does seem like it.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

It's cool dude. You have your opinion and I have mine on the importance of the C

And the NFL has it's importance of the position. The Center is the lowest paid position on the offensive line on average. And for the top paid ones, every other position on the offensive line has someone making more.

Also in the past 25 years, 0 centers have been taken with a top 15 pick. 7 guards have (4 in the past 7 years). 48 tackles have.

So NFL teams have said they aren't worth using a high draft pick on and they aren't worth paying big money to.

Not talking about depth here, but top 15 guys, expected to start. There's only one QB on a roster too, but the value of that position makes it taken often in the top 15, and paid well when they are playing at a high level.

You draft a center only when he's a sure thing. You don't reach on them (Usually, sorry Seattle fans). It's why nearly all the first round centers are great players (they'd better be blue chip, perfect choice, no flaws elite prospects). Look at the ones teams spent a 1st on. Frederick, Pouncey, Mack, Wood, Mangold, Faine, Woody, Hartings.

And elite skill doesn't make a great center. They aren't a guard always having to pull and lead block. Not a tackle dealing with elite edge rushers. Usually they are assigned the 2nd man on double teaming an interior guy, and picked more for smarts than talent.

So it's hard to say that there's 32 NFL GM's out there not paying Centers higher than other positions and not using top draft capital to pick them, but it's more important than the position all those scouting depts and GM's do invest in.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Oh for fucks sake, not another one

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

And the NFL has it's importance of the position. The Center is the lowest paid position on the offensive line on average. And for the top paid ones, every other position on the offensive line has someone making more.

Also in the past 25 years, 0 centers have been taken with a top 15 pick. 7 guards have (4 in the past 7 years). 48 tackles have.

So NFL teams have said they aren't worth using a high draft pick on and they aren't worth paying big money to.

Not talking about depth here, but top 15 guys, expected to start. There's only one QB on a roster too, but the value of that position makes it taken often in the top 15, and paid well when they are playing at a high level.

You draft a center only when he's a sure thing. You don't reach on them (Usually, sorry Seattle fans). It's why nearly all the first round centers are great players (they'd better be blue chip, perfect choice, no flaws elite prospects). Look at the ones teams spent a 1st on. Frederick, Pouncey, Mack, Wood, Mangold, Faine, Woody, Hartings.

And elite skill doesn't make a great center. They aren't a guard always having to pull and lead block. Not a tackle dealing with elite edge rushers. Usually they are assigned the 2nd man on double teaming an interior guy, and picked more for smarts than talent.

So it's hard to say that there's 32 NFL GM's out there not paying Centers higher than other positions and not using top draft capital to pick them, but it's more important than the position all those scouting depts and GM's do invest in.

The point was set that the C is one of the least important positions on the team. Draft spot is irrelevant and cherry picked top 14, money is irrelevant even though I back those up with stats some 5547 posts ago and you don't have to be athletic to play the position which we all know is BS cause you have to be athletic and strong to play in the NFL. My point is the C is one of the most important positions on the team reguardless of all that.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

The point was set that the C is one of the least important positions on the team. Draft spot is irrelevant and cherry picked top 14, money is irrelevant even though I back those up with stats some 5547 posts ago and you don't have to be athletic to play the position which we all know is BS cause you have to be athletic and strong to play in the NFL. My point is the C is one of the most important positions on the team reguardless of all that.

I said top 15 (not 14), but can go with any grouping you choose before you say it is cherry picked. Top 10 they are the least among O-line, 1st round they are the least too (guards taken about 2.5 times more often and Tackles about 8 times more often so despite them having two starters, vs. 1 for centers, centers are still the least picked and only because of late first round picks). That's especially amazing as the bust rate is so low for them making them such a safe pick. So please.... What grouping of draft picks are you using in the draft to make that "cherry picked" claim. Or are you just using baseless words?


And draft picks and salary are irrelevant? Oh yeah, teams just trade top 15 picks all the time for solid but not great players, and sign punters to 10 million a year deals because money doesn't matter. Wait, in reality yes those two things are VERY relevant. Teams hire entire staffs just for those two things.

So it's just luck that QB, LT, and pass rushers are the top positions taken early in the draft and Long snapper, Kicker, Fullback, Punter, and returners are the least taken. But that has nothing to do with value right? Just luck. Teams don't value high draft picks.

What's the most a team ever gave up in a trade to acquire a center? A team really needing to upgrade and making that blockbuster trade to improve the position. What did they give up? What value did the actual NFL GM's put on that position?

And yes you have to be athletic to play in the NFL. But you don't have to have that elite strength of a guard, plus you aren't pulling as often as them. And you don't need that elite foot speed and length of a tackle. They are amazing athletes, but compared to their peers, they are not. There's a reason other offensive linemen take all the top spots in 40, bench, vertical, broad jump, 3 cone, etc. The two fastest centers in combine history were Chris Chester and Richie Incognito. And both were moved to guard where that athleticism was more vital to the position.

Id put Center above the special teams guys, but down near the bottom with Sam LB, and maybe Left Guard. I don't count FB, since most teams don't carry one, and 10 years ago would have had Strong Safety in that group but the division between strong and free safeties are so much less than it used to be.

So it's fine, you have your opinion. NFL GM's show in real life when they have their draft and cap capital to make the best team and choose the most important positions to use it on and Center is not that. I'll stick with their opinion.

And please. Since you are making that "cherry picked" claim at me, please show me your evidence on that claim. I'd just like to know your position is a fact based one and not just you making something up.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I said top 15 (not 14), but can go with any grouping you choose before you say it is cherry picked. Top 10 they are the least among O-line, 1st round they are the least too (guards taken about 2.5 times more often and Tackles about 8 times more often so despite them having two starters, vs. 1 for centers, centers are still the least picked and only because of late first round picks). That's especially amazing as the bust rate is so low for them making them such a safe pick. So please.... What grouping of draft picks are you using in the draft to make that "cherry picked" claim. Or are you just using baseless words?


And draft picks and salary are irrelevant? Oh yeah, teams just trade top 15 picks all the time for solid but not great players, and sign punters to 10 million a year deals because money doesn't matter. Wait, in reality yes those two things are VERY relevant. Teams hire entire staffs just for those two things.

What's the most a team ever gave up in a trade to acquire a center? A team really needing to upgrade and making that blockbuster trade to improve the position. What did they give up? What value did the actual NFL GM's put on that position?

And yes you have to be athletic to play in the NFL. But you don't have to have that elite strength of a guard, plus you aren't pulling as often as them. And you don't need that elite foot speed and length of a tackle. They are amazing athletes, but compared to their peers, they are not. There's a reason other offensive linemen take all the top spots in 40, bench, vertical, broad jump, 3 cone, etc. The two fastest centers in combine history were Chris Chester and Richie Incognito. And both were moved to guard where that athleticism was more vital to the position.

Id put Center above the special teams guys, but down near the bottom with Sam LB, and maybe Left Guard. I don't count FB, since most teams don't carry one, and 10 years ago would have had Strong Safety in that group but the division between strong and free safeties are so much less than it used to be.

So it's fine, you have your opinion. NFL GM's show in real life when they have their draft and cap capital to make the best team and choose the most important positions to use it on and Center is not that. I'll stick with their opinion.

And please. Since you are making that "cherry picked" claim at me, please show me your evidence on that claim. I'd just like to know your position is a fact based one and not just you making something up.

Never mind, I don't get how you guys don't understand football 101. Has nothing to do with money or draft position top 15 for you top 14 for PE1 or top 16 or 20 or top 47. Writing 10 paragraphs still doesn't actually change the importance of the C position on the field.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Never mind, I don't get how you guys don't understand football 101. Has nothing to do with money or draft position top 15 for you top 14 for PE1 or top 16 or 20 or top 47. Writing 10 paragraphs still doesn't actually change the importance of the C position on the field.

So while NFL GM's say draft picks and salary cap space is really important, you say it isn't. While they hold the value for those two things very high, you don't.

Got it. You know more than all the GM's in the NFL.

And thanks for showing there's no proof to your "cherry picked" claim. I figured as much that it was emotional rather than factual. Just needed your confirmation.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

So while NFL GM's say draft picks and salary cap space is really important, you say it isn't. While they hold the value for those two things very high, you don't.

Got it. You know more than all the GM's in the NFL.

And thanks for showing there's no proof to your "cherry picked" claim. I figured as much that it was emotional rather than factual. Just needed your confirmation.

Didn't I just say it's not about draft or money??? Acutally I have given proof in other threads. First it started off as never drafted in the first round and Cs don't make a lot of money. All this in another thread. So you're saying the C position is one of the least important positions on the team?

 

[Manster7588]

It's easier to find long term centers, so why draft them high or pay them $$$$$ when you can get another fairly easily.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

It's easier to find long term centers, so why draft them high or pay them $$$$$ when you can get another fairly easily.

Some think cause of money and draft position that it's not an important position on the field.

 

[Manster7588]

Some think cause of money and draft position that it's not an important position on the field.

Some people are........ well you know what I'm saying.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

It's cool dude. You have your opinion and I have mine on the importance of the C

Totally bro!

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

When he digs his heels in, nobody is right.

Yep... I’ve dug my heels in on two topics.
1. I don’t think Centers are important as QB, DE, LT, CB1, WR1 etc
2. Wentz is better then Dak

Real outlandish shit right there!

 

[Schmoopy1000]

So while NFL GM's say draft picks and salary cap space is really important, you say it isn't. While they hold the value for those two things very high, you don't.

Got it. You know more than all the GM's in the NFL.

And thanks for showing there's no proof to your "cherry picked" claim. I figured as much that it was emotional rather than factual. Just needed your confirmation.

your getting caught up in two different arguments.
your wanting to focus on players, not the position. (X's & O's)
I really dont give a shit if building a good center was the easiest thing ever to do. (& no that is not what I am saying PE1) Doesnt change the importance of that position. While it would change when you draft one.
Without a good center you have an inconsistent line. With that you basically have a shitty line. No team has every won a superbowl with a shitty line.
They have won superbowls while lacking in just about every high profile position.

Centers are a very important position. BTW they are doing more than just block.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

your getting caught up in two different arguments.
your wanting to focus on players, not the position. (X's & O's)
I really dont give a shit if building a good center was the easiest thing ever to do. (& no that is not what I am saying PE1) Doesnt change the importance of that position. While it would change when you draft one.
Without a good center you have an inconsistent line. With that you basically have a shitty line. No team has every won a superbowl with a shitty line.
They have won superbowls while lacking in just about every high profile position.

Centers are a very important position. BTW they are doing more than just block.

No I am focusing on the position. Compare the league position vs. position and NFL GM's give the least value in terms of draft capital and money to centers on offense. When that position needs filled, teams don't value it highly, be it with draft picks or money. When they have a great one they don't value it highly with money. That's it.

It fits as a position and based on players. Travis Frederick isn't getting paid 1/3 of Tyron Smith's earnings because he sucks. Frederick is a GREAT center. He's getting 1/3 the money because his position isn't as important.

Passing is where value is in the NFL, and Centers are the least impactful there. A horrible center may allow 4 sacks, 15-18 hits, and 5-6 penalties in a season. Well off of the negative impact of a poor guard or tackle.

I asked the trade question because yes, that determines value. No team is giving up what Philly did a couple years ago for the #2 pick if it's not for a franchise QB there. No team is giving up high value to trade for a center. Look at Brett Jones last year. Had a top 5 season as a pass blocking center and a 7th round pick was what it took to get him.

Which is going to have more value? Upgrading a horrible center to a good one where you have a couple less sacks, 2-3 fewer penalties, and maybe 10 fewer pressures? Or upgrading a horrible tackle to a good tackle where you could have 10 fewer sacks, a dozen fewer penalties, and 20-30 fewer pressures allowed?

I agree on the SB winning teams. And which part of that offensive line that teams need do they value the least? Sure last year Kelce was the one, and great. Year before pats line was good but Andrews was garbage. Year before was Denver on their 3rd string center. Year before that was Stork who was garbage. Year before? Well lets put it this way, Max Unger was the worst ranked center according to PFF in the playoffs.

So you say they have to have great lines, but the center can be awful and the offensive line still be great?? I'd agree with your premise.

And the "they bring more value than on the field". I'd agree. Kind of like the Matt Slater types on ST. Or the 3rd QB who runs the scout team and can help. It's where the value of the position on the field is less and you can choose a glue guy at the position.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I thought he was some useless C

Useless, until you don't have one.