rangers trade thoughts........

[terpsfball09]

I would have loved to get Bautista, and had heard about that possible trade as well. However, since we couldnt score a BIG bat. I am glad we didnt overpay for an average player. I think we have above average players now if they could perform up to their potential. Murphy has looked much better over the last few games. Baker has a better AVG than Rios and almost as many HR's. Murphy has about the same AVG as Rios about the same number of HR's. I say, if/when we lose Cruz, we let Murphy and Gentry platoon LF and let Baker play RF everyday.

Murphy has the same avg as rios? I thought murphy was hitting .220 and rios .270 right? If Rios was hitting all the way down at .220 then why would anyone want him at all?

 

[jta4437]

Murphy has about the same AVG as Rios about the same number of HR's.

Rios .273, Murphy .223 Not even close

 

[Hambombs]

For some reason I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Lee on waivers again (not that we would want him).

Here's one last bit of deadline info I got: Last night at around 6 we were heavily involved with the blue jays to get bautista. Rangers would've traded Profar, Alfaro, Luke Jackson, and one lesser prospect (assuming this is Ryan Rua). The trade was actually close. Then for some reason the Blue Jays backed out and told JD that they just couldn't do it and tried to trade us encarnacion for the same players instead. We didn't want to do that, so the trade fell through. We asked them at least 2 more times today to reconsider, but they didn't. We also talked to the Rockies and one other team about a 3 team trade with us getting Cargo and losing Profar, E. Beltre, plus more prospects. This trade wasn't very close though, it was just a discussion. Then at around noon today we had preliminary talks to Miami about Stanton. Miami said this morning they were "willing to listen" on him. We talked to them about sending Profar, Perez, and some others. I don't have much more on this other than Miami wanted one major league ready outfielder in return. So it didn't work out. It was at this point where JD stopped going after the really big bats. In the last 20 minutes he made a late push at Hunter Pence and Michael Morse. Obviously these didn't work out either. He had an extremely busy day. The man tried his best, but it was just one of those years. We'll be big players this offseason I'm sure.

Hope this interests some. I know it was after the fact, but I guess its a testament at the type of day our GM has had

That is a pretty hefty package. I can see he really kicked the tires hard. If we were getting Edwin instead I would of added another player from them to the deal

 

[terpsfball09]

Desperation can make a man do crazy things. But I guess when you think about it, Profar isn't playing anytime soon. Our rotation is pretty much set, despite all of the injuries we have a bunch of players locked in long term besides MG. Alfaro was the big piece in this IMO. But Bautista wouldn't have been just a rental. We would've had him through 2015 (something like that) and would produce more than any player on this team. Plus he's pretty good in the outfield and has a hose.

 

[jta4437]

That is a pretty hefty package. I can see he really kicked the tires hard. If we were getting Edwin instead I would of added another player from them to the deal

too hard, Bautista isn't worth that

 

[lainey12]

any chance JD did not get a bat before the deadline because Cruz has accepted and got a decent plea....and maybe JD knows a little something. I'm reading most players are working out pleas with the MLB

Meh, I need to sleep and quit worrying about Nelly. Ironically, getting back to 4 games behind has made it worse. If we were getting blown out, then no big deal
Sigh

 

[Hambombs]

Desperation can make a man do crazy things. But I guess when you think about it, Profar isn't playing anytime soon. Our rotation is pretty much set, despite all of the injuries we have a bunch of players locked in long term besides MG. Alfaro was the big piece in this IMO. But Bautista wouldn't have been just a rental. We would've had him through 2015 (something like that) and would produce more than any player on this team. Plus he's pretty good in the outfield and has a hose.

I'm pretty suprised we didn't ask about Quentin. But yeah Edwin is having the better year though

 

[terpsfball09]

ehh, I think as desperate as we were, that package wasnt TOO bad. I was okay with it besides alfaro tbh. He's one of the best right handed power bats in the game. He'd hit 3 for us and start every game. He would be much better defensively then Nelly as well.

Also, I'm sure the Jays would have picked up a large chunk of the contract with the names they were getting

 

[dammittman]

Rios .273, Murphy .223 Not even close

All players are streaky. Murphy hit about 240 for July. It was not that long ago that Murphy was the hottest bat on the team for about a month and a half. He was the only one keeping us in it late last year.

My point is that you dont give up a lot to aquire a player that is not performing that much better than a player you are already paying to play.

 

[WilltheThrill]

If thats the package we truly offered for Bautista then somebody drugged JD, and gave the Jays GM a double dose

That offer is borderline criminal for Jose Bautista. I'm all for acquiring a big bat for the lineup, but JD would have had some serious explaining to do if he dealt that insane package of prospects for a .250 hitter on the wrong side of age 30. For a younger stud like CarGo or Stanton I could understand. But Bautista? The 25 HR are nice, but the age (32) and mediocre average are not. He had the one magical season of insane power numbers but has declined since then. He's still a great hitter to have in your lineup for his power potential but not someone you mortgage your farm for and build around for the future. I have a hard time believing that was the actual offer. If so, like you said... Jon Daniels was high and Alex Anthopoulos was bombed out of his mind.

 

[jta4437]

All players are streaky. Murphy hit about 240 for July. It was not that long ago that Murphy was the hottest bat on the team for about a month and a half. He was the only one keeping us in it late last year.

My point is that you dont give up a lot to aquire a player that is not performing that much better than a player you are already paying to play.

By all means, but to say they have about the same average is just patently false, thats why I excluded the rest of your quote

 

[Hambombs]

That offer is borderline criminal for Jose Bautista. I'm all for acquiring a big bat for the lineup, but JD would have had some serious explaining to do if he dealt that insane package of prospects for a .250 hitter on the wrong side of age 30. For a younger stud like CarGo or Stanton I could understand. But Bautista? The 25 HR are nice, but the age (32) and mediocre average are not. He had the one magical season of insane power numbers but has declined since then. He's still a great hitter to have in your lineup for his power potential but not someone you mortgage your farm for and build around for the future. I have a hard time believing that was the actual offer. If so, like you said... Jon Daniels was high and Alex Anthopoulos was bombed out of his mind.

6.5 WAR, 7.7 WAR, injured last year would of hit another 40-45 homers, 3.7 WAR so far this year. On pace for 5-6 WAR seems pretty elite to me..

 

[jta4437]

That offer is borderline criminal for Jose Bautista. I'm all for acquiring a big bat for the lineup, but JD would have had some serious explaining to do if he dealt that insane package of prospects for a .250 hitter on the wrong side of age 30. For a younger stud like CarGo or Stanton I could understand. But Bautista? The 25 HR are nice, but the age (32) and mediocre average are not. He had the one magical season of insane power numbers but has declined since then. He's still a great hitter to have in your lineup for his power potential but not someone you mortgage your farm for and build around for the future. I have a hard time believing that was the actual offer. If so, like you said... Jon Daniels was high and Alex Anthopoulos was bombed out of his mind.

Cingram, nice to see you around a little more lately, not a lot of logical thinking on the boards these days

 

[dammittman]

Alex Rios career numbers:
AVG: 278 HR: 155 RBI 676 SLG: 443 OBP :324
Murphy career numbers
AVG: 277 HR: 84 RBI 352 SLG: 443 OBP :339
Pretty damn close with the exception of total HR's and total RBIs, and you have to put that in perspective.
Rios: 1404 total games played
Murphy 808 total games played.

 

[Hambombs]

Alex Rios career numbers:
AVG: 278 HR: 155 RBI 676 SLG: 443 OBP :324
Murphy career numbers
AVG: 277 HR: 84 RBI 352 SLG: 443 OBP :339
Pretty damn close with the exception of total HR's and total RBIs, and you have to put that in perspective.
Rios: 1404 total games played
Murphy 808 total games played.

Hmmmm although Murphy is having a bad year

 

[jta4437]

Alex Rios career numbers:
AVG: 278 HR: 155 RBI 676 SLG: 443 OBP :324
Murphy career numbers
AVG: 277 HR: 84 RBI 352 SLG: 443 OBP :339
Pretty damn close with the exception of total HR's and total RBIs, and you have to put that in perspective.
Rios: 1404 total games played
Murphy 808 total games played.

You were obviously speaking within the context of this year, since you said they essentially had the same amount of HRs, which they do,

Now you're trying to make it a career thing, you can't have it both ways,

Murphy is terrible at the plate this year, but I agree his career numbers suggest he SHOULD be better, but he's been given a much longer leash than at any other point in his career and all he's done is hang himself with it

Was Rios a marginal upgrade? perhaps, but an upgrade nonetheless, was he worth overpaying for? No, not at all

 

[dammittman]

Well, in my original post, I was thinking Murphy was around 240 this year, I had not gone and looked up exact numbers until you provided yours. My point was that statistically Murphy is as good of a player as a player like Rios and that we should not have given up anything substantial to obtain such a player, which we didnt. And Murphy HAS been giving some indication that he may be coming out of his slump and playing more like we grew accustomed to him playing in years past.

 

[jta4437]

Well, in my original post, I was thinking Murphy was around 240 this year, I had not gone and looked up exact numbers until you provided yours. My point was that statistically Murphy is as good of a player as a player like Rios and that we should not have given up anything substantial to obtain such a player, which we didnt. And Murphy HAS been giving some indication that he may be coming out of his slump and playing more like we grew accustomed to him playing in years past.

.240 or .223 (its actually .221 after tonight) both are substantially worse than .273

Rios is the better player, career wise marginally AND this season substantially

And these indications you speak of? .267 average and a .690 OPS since the all star break, by no means inspire me to confidence that he's about to "bust out"

we should not have given up anything substantial to obtain such a player, which we didnt.

Agreed, standing pat was the smarter move

 

[dammittman]

.240 or .223 (its actually .221 after tonight) both are substantially worse than .273

Rios is the better player, career wise marginally AND this season substantially

And these indications you speak of? .267 average and a .690 OPS since the all star break, by no means inspire me to confidence that he's about to "bust out"

[/was the QUOTE]

So by that logic, Hamilton, batting .226 this year with 16 HR, is only a marginally better player than Murphy. Do you really believe that? Would you not take Hamilton back for Murphy's pay. A slump is a slump. Some longer than others. I dont think Rios's career numbers are even marginally better than Murphy's and as for the season, noone can say how either would perform next month.

 

[jta4437]

.240 or .223 (its actually .221 after tonight) both are substantially worse than .273

Rios is the better player, career wise marginally AND this season substantially

And these indications you speak of? .267 average and a .690 OPS since the all star break, by no means inspire me to confidence that he's about to "bust out"

[/was the QUOTE]

So by that logic, Hamilton, batting .226 this year with 16 HR, is only a marginally better player than Murphy. Do you really believe that? Would you not take Hamilton back for Murphy's pay. A slump is a slump. Some longer than others. I dont think Rios's career numbers are even marginally better than Murphy's and as for the season, noone can say how either would perform next month.

You believe what you want, the numbers don't support you

Season long slumps, at some point, are just called bad years, and with players the age of Hamilton, Murphy and Rios (31+), you have to wonder, is that an outlier or a career trend? having a bad year at 24 is one thing at 31 is another, its called regression at some point

Murphy has always been a marginal talent (whether you want to believe it or not), that even I thought needed a shot this year and last, He got his shot, and he crapped the bed, there probably won't be anymore,

Alex Rios has at least 1 more year (maybe 2) to prove otherwise (though he's having the best season of the 3), Hamilton will have at least 4 (as bad as he's been), Murphy as a FA, will probably have none, and if he's lucky 1, hopefully for him he capitalizes, but there will be no more big pay days in any of their futures (Rios has the best shot of landing a decent contract going forward, but even that's doubtful)

There's a reason Rios secured a contract worth 10+ million a year for several years and Hamilton 25+ million a year for the next 5 years, and Murphy has never been on more than a 1 year contract topping out at 5.78 million this year, they are better than Murphy

I trust Rios' and Hamilton's track record much more than I trust Murphy's at this point