Rangers & Tigers

[jta4437]

When was the last time Verlander went less than 5?

June 22nd, 2010

2 innings vs. Mets 5ERs

Might be due...

 

[Al Falfa]

again, i agree with you on this. i think that Holland is basically going thru what amounts extended spring training here working himself back into shape.

and i think we need to stretch out Yu's starts maybe considering using either Oswalt or Ogando or both to give him more time off. set up a schedule with them splitting the starts:

Holland
Dempster
Harrison
Feldman
Yu/Oswalt/OgandoP

or have them actually split the start: Yu starts & goes 3 followed by Oswalt going 3 followed by Ogando going 3. then the next start have Oswalt start and go 3, followed by Yu and then Ogando. the next start have Ogando start followed by Oswalt and then YU

Not sure why everybody is assuming that Darvish is tired or Holland needed more rehab. Not much difference in Darvish's first game of the season and his last. Looks about the same to me. Can't throw strikes and opposing hitters have adjusted. Holland's fastball is as straight as a string and if he can't keep it down and on the corners which he doesn't more often than not, he gets hit because like Darvish, he spends way to much time pitching when he's behind in the count.
JMO, but I don't think Holland will ever be what everybody thinks he should be.

 

[jta4437]

Not sure why everybody is assuming that Darvish is tired or Holland needed more rehab. Not much difference in Darvish's first game of the season and his last. Looks about the same to me. Can't throw strikes and opposing hitters have adjusted. Holland's fastball is as straight as a string and if he can't keep it down and on the corners which he doesn't more often than not, he gets hit because like Darvish, he spends way to much time pitching when he's behind in the count.
JMO, but I don't think Holland will ever be what everybody thinks he should be.

I've said that I think his problems are that 1)hitters have adjusted to him better than he has to them, and that 2)fatigue is also compounding his 3)control problems that he's had all year

 

[Al Falfa]

I've said that I think his problems are that 1)hitters have adjusted to him better than he has to them, and that 2)fatigue is also compounding his 3)control problems that he's had all year

Hard to adjust when you can't throw strikes consistently which has been his problem from day one. He recently said he felt fine and wasn't tired so you have to assume he's telling the truth. He just can't throw strikes and until he learns to pitch in the strike zone it will probably be more of the same for both him and Holland.

 

[Hambombs]

Not sure why everybody is assuming that Darvish is tired or Holland needed more rehab. Not much difference in Darvish's first game of the season and his last. Looks about the same to me. Can't throw strikes and opposing hitters have adjusted. Holland's fastball is as straight as a string and if he can't keep it down and on the corners which he doesn't more often than not, he gets hit because like Darvish, he spends way to much time pitching when he's behind in the count.
JMO, but I don't think Holland will ever be what everybody thinks he should be.

Hopefully were all wrong on holland i hope he steps it up like last 2nd half and being that TORP guy he was.

 

[jta4437]

Hopefully were all wrong on holland i hope he steps it up like last 2nd half and being that TORP guy he was.

Holland had 3 bad starts before he got sick and lost all that weight

Since he's come back, he hasn't been the same, his command is off and his velocity is down, but as bad as it was before he went on the DL

He managed a couple decent games against weak offenses on his return, but since then he's had trouble keeping the ball in the park and out of the middle of the plate, he can throw strikes but he can't hit his spots with regularity,

I think it all stems from recovering from his illness and building his strength back up and regaining the command of his pitches

It very well could be that its not til the season is almost over (maybe all the way over) that he's all the way back unfortunately,

By which time he might be pitching out of the bullpen come playoff time

 

[Hambombs]

Holland had 3 bad starts before he got sick and lost all that weight

Since he's come back, he hasn't been the same, his command is off and his velocity is down, but as bad as it was before he went on the DL

He managed a couple decent games against weak offenses on his return, but since then he's had trouble keeping the ball in the park and out of the middle of the plate, he can throw strikes but he can't hit his spots with regularity,

I think it all stems from recovering from his illness and building his strength back up and regaining the command of his pitches

It very well could be that its not til the season is almost over (maybe all the way over) that he's all the way back unfortunately,

By which time he might be pitching out of the bullpen come playoff time

Hopefully not later than late august

 

[WilltheThrill]

Consider this ...

-In Feldman's string of 6 losses ... opposition scored 28 runs ... only 19 earned ... a 9 run delta. For the season opposition has scored 46 runs ... 39 earned ... a 7 run delta. So over the past 6 wins ... TEX has played lots better defense when Feldman was pitching.

-Perhaps Feldman's low point was on 4 June when he gave up 8.0ER in 1.2IP. If you throw that game out ... he's got a 3.67 ERA for the season. Over those 6 consecutive wins he's got a 2.81 ERA.

Back at the beginning of the season there was a poll asking posters who would be TEX top pitcher in 2012 (or something like that). Feldman wasn't even listed in the poll ... and Ginger made comment that before it was over Feldman might show up to be the TEX best pitcher in 2012. Tried to find that poll and bump it ... but couldn't find it.

Feldman has a long way to go before proving he's the best Rangers pitcher of 2012. And Ginger doesn't have the slightest clue about baseball, even though she likes to talk like she does. Some of her nuggets of wisdom include saying that Adam Wainwright was the Cardinals 4th or 5th best starter, worse than Jake Westbrook and Joe Kelly. When I called her on it, her response was that I should trust her because she's a Cardinals fan and that she can see that Wainwright isn't that great anymore because of his surgery. Not one sound baseball mind would take Jake Westbrook, Joe Kelly, or Kyle Lohse over Adam Wainwright right now. Not one. It's absolute nonsense which she tries to pass off as fact. The stats don't even back her up. Just like in 2010 when she told us all that Roy Oswalt wasn't good enough to be anything more than a #5 on the Twins pitching staff. 2010 Roy Oswalt wasn't better than Scott Baker, Brian Duensing, or Nick Blackburn because "some people at work told her so".

As jta correctly stated, the true Feldman lies somewhere between the current good one and the bad one from June. Even if he finishes the season pitching this way, his brief 2-month run wouldn't equal what Matt Harrison accomplished for the Rangers this year.

 

[Windingmywatch]

... When I called her on it, her response was that I should trust her ...

Will ... you are a knowledgeable poster too. Who were you when you had this dialog with Ginger? She's not been around here to my recollection since May 2012 when your WilltheThrill profile started.

Just curious.

In any case ... I don't think RO is more than a #5 anywhere he can get a job.

 

[romeo212000]

I remember the discussion she popped in here once with that nonsense and hasn't been seen since.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I remember the discussion she popped in here once with that nonsense and hasn't been seen since.

Might have been while I was on vacation..

Regardless ... in any case ... considering her total body of work ... I'll tend to agree with her on most issues than just about anyone else that posts here.

I'll stick to my thinking that right about now alongside Dempster ... TEX is very happy to have Feldman in the rotation ranked either in front of or right behind Harrison. Right now I'd put Yu at #4 performance-wise with Holland dueling with Oswalt for the last spot (which are both below the post season rotation cut line).

 

[WilltheThrill]

Will ... you are a knowledgeable poster too. Who were you when you had this dialog with Ginger? She's not been around here to my recollection since May 2012 when your WilltheThrill profile started.

Just curious.

In any case ... I don't think RO is more than a #5 anywhere he can get a job.

It was in a thread on here which was directed at her, may have even had her name in the title if memory serves me right. It was basically "hey Ginger, would you want Scott Feldman now?" (during Feldman's struggles). She responded by saying something along the lines of how the Cardinals didn't need Feldman because they had one of the best rotations in baseball, citing proof as Wainwright being their worst starter. So I responded by saying that at no time including the present has Adam Wainwright ever been the Cardinals worst starter.

As for RO, he was still a top pitcher in 2010 when Ginger said he wasn't good enough to make the Twins top 4. Even with his current poor output he could still start for a handful of the weak teams. I'm sure the Royals, Astros, Twins, and Cubs would take him in a heartbeat if they actually cared about winning. I'm fine with people having different opinions than mine because I certainly don't know everything. But her act of making extremely outlandish statements which contradict what stats and "experts" say, passing them off as fact, and then using nothing but "because I said so" or "some of my work friends told me so" wears thin. It would be like me saying "Julio Borbon is a better player than Mike Trout. Don't question me on that either, because my mailman left me a note saying so".

 

[WilltheThrill]

Might have been while I was on vacation..

Regardless ... in any case ... considering her total body of work ... I'll tend to agree with her on most issues than just about anyone else that posts here.

I'll stick to my thinking that right about now alongside Dempster ... TEX is very happy to have Feldman in the rotation ranked either in front of or right behind Harrison. Right now I'd put Yu at #4 performance-wise with Holland dueling with Oswalt for the last spot (which are both below the post season rotation cut line).

Most certainly. Feldman, Harrison, and Dempster are definitely the Rangers most reliable starters right now (in no particular order). Holland, Oswalt, and Darvish are a complete crap-shoot at this point, capable of throwing gems or getting lit up for double digits.

 

[jta4437]

Feldman has a long way to go before proving he's the best Rangers pitcher of 2012. And Ginger doesn't have the slightest clue about baseball, even though she likes to talk like she does. Some of her nuggets of wisdom include saying that Adam Wainwright was the Cardinals 4th or 5th best starter, worse than Jake Westbrook and Joe Kelly. When I called her on it, her response was that I should trust her because she's a Cardinals fan and that she can see that Wainwright isn't that great anymore because of his surgery. Not one sound baseball mind would take Jake Westbrook, Joe Kelly, or Kyle Lohse over Adam Wainwright right now. Not one. It's absolute nonsense which she tries to pass off as fact. The stats don't even back her up. Just like in 2010 when she told us all that Roy Oswalt wasn't good enough to be anything more than a #5 on the Twins pitching staff. 2010 Roy Oswalt wasn't better than Scott Baker, Brian Duensing, or Nick Blackburn because "some people at work told her so".

As jta correctly stated, the true Feldman lies somewhere between the current good one and the bad one from June. Even if he finishes the season pitching this way, his brief 2-month run wouldn't equal what Matt Harrison accomplished for the Rangers this year.

I always took her comment on Wainwright to mean, at the time Wainwright was pitching like their 4th or 5th best starter (which he was, at the time), and it was a result of his injury consequent recovery

I didn't read the whole thread and don't recall it perfectly, but I do remember it, and thats how I took her comment

 

[Windingmywatch]

Feldman has a long way to go before proving he's the best Rangers pitcher of 2012.

As jta correctly stated, the true Feldman lies somewhere between the current good one and the bad one from June. Even if he finishes the season pitching this way, his brief 2-month run wouldn't equal what Matt Harrison accomplished for the Rangers this year.

Okay ... went back and looked at this and can agree that for a season long look that Harrison is probably going to be viewed as TEX best SP in 2012. Total body of his work ... projecting forward through the end of September.

The thing is ... you throw out Feldman's 4 June start where he gave up 8ER in 1.2IP ... he has a 3.67ERA. In his 6 losses TEX defense was terrible giving up 9 UER. In his injured knee 2010 season he had 11WP. Only he and Holland (and Feliz) are the only SPs w/o a WP in 2012. For a sinkerball pitcher ... that's pretty impressive given TEX 2 primary catchers.

He's not going to be the best TEX pitcher in 2012 ... and he's pitching right now like a guy who wants a good contract starting next year ... and TEX has a $600k club option. I think they offer him a 3/9 deal ... he's not going to get one any better and since he is a GB pitcher ... he's the kind of SP TEX wants for RBIA.

Thinking about your 2013 thread ... I can see a rotation of ... Harrison, Colby, Feldman, Yu, and Holland.

 

[jta4437]

Lineups

Tigers
A. Jackson, CF
A. Dirks, LF
M. Cabrera, 3B
P. Fielder, 1B
B. Boesch, RF
D. Young, DH
A. Avila, C
J. Peralta, SS
O. Infante, 2B

Rangers
I. Kinsler, 2B
E. Andrus, SS
J. Hamilton, CF
A. Beltre, 3B
N. Cruz, RF
M. Young, DH
D. Murphy, LF
M. Napoli, C
M. Moreland, 1B

Scherzer vs Feldman

 

[jta4437]

Young at DH, yay

Its obvious that the coke has eaten holes in Wash's brain

 

[romeo212000]

Murphy should be hitting ahead of Young.

 

[jta4437]

Murphy, Napoli, Moreland, Gentry, Olt and Soto should all be batting ahead of Young

 

[jta4437]

Just about to say, I hope Feldman has his good curveball tonight,

At least one swinging strikeout so far... keep it up