Random Thoughts

[idseer]

Did you just name two part-time Cardinals who barely saw post-season action in 2011. The same team? They were both the starting 2B, huh?

- Theriot posted a combined 0.0 WAR for STL and SF in those seasons in a part-time role. He had 5 combined PA's for the Giants during the 12 post-season and 13 for the Cardinals in 11. He mostly played SS with STL.

- Skip Schumaker was a part-time player who had a combined 21 PA's during the post-season when the Cardinals won the 11 world series.



Moving on...



- Omar Infante never won a world series.

- Joe Panik sucks... now... But he did win a world series. He also started out his career slashing .305/.343/.368 (.711) in his first season (the world series win) and .312/.378/.455 (.833) in his second where he was an all-star.

Then, he went totally in the shitter. We would all love Madrigal to produce like 14-15 Panik. No one would debate you there. The issue is that you're using the name "Joe Panik" to establish a poor offensive 2B winning a World Series. When, in fact, he was posting fantastic production at the plate.

- Freddy Sanchez is a 3-time all-star. Who won a batting title in 2006 hitting .344 and leading the league in double. Slashing a career .297/.335/.416. He made all-star games in 06, 07 and 09. In 2010 when SF won the WS, he slashed .292/.342/.397.


So, you're naming guys who were very good offensive 2B and then guys who literally just didn't play much of a role for their teams at all. None of these people have anything to do with Yolmer Sanchez.

 

[idseer]

Did you just name two part-time Cardinals who barely saw post-season action in 2011. The same team? They were both the starting 2B, huh?

- Theriot posted a combined 0.0 WAR for STL and SF in those seasons in a part-time role. He had 5 combined PA's for the Giants during the 12 post-season and 13 for the Cardinals in 11. He mostly played SS with STL.

- Skip Schumaker was a part-time player who had a combined 21 PA's during the post-season when the Cardinals won the 11 world series.



Moving on...



- Omar Infante never won a world series.

- Joe Panik sucks... now... But he did win a world series. He also started out his career slashing .305/.343/.368 (.711) in his first season (the world series win) and .312/.378/.455 (.833) in his second where he was an all-star.

Then, he went totally in the shitter. We would all love Madrigal to produce like 14-15 Panik. No one would debate you there. The issue is that you're using the name "Joe Panik" to establish a poor offensive 2B winning a World Series. When, in fact, he was posting fantastic production at the plate.

- Freddy Sanchez is a 3-time all-star. Who won a batting title in 2006 hitting .344 and leading the league in double. Slashing a career .297/.335/.416. He made all-star games in 06, 07 and 09. In 2010 when SF won the WS, he slashed .292/.342/.397.


So, you're naming guys who were very good offensive 2B and then guys who literally just didn't play much of a role for their teams at all. None of these people have anything to do with Yolmer Sanchez.

not surprising i'd have to step you thru things. you are quite thick.

Did you just name two part-time Cardinals who barely saw post-season action in 2011. The same team? They were both the starting 2B, huh?
yes i did. they played most of the 2nd base more those teams in their w.s winning seasons. which is my fucking point!

Omar Infante never won a world series
omar infante played in 124 games at 2nd base for the w.s. winning 2015 royals' season.

Joe Panik sucks... now... But he did win a world series
again ... my point.

not even going to bother with the rest of your really ignorant post.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

interesting. NOW you're only interested in obp and a gold glove. i have nothing against this expectation. it's ALL that i expected. my remarks dealt with your sudden expectation of power! you had no right to expect that. you're trying (unsurprisingly) to twist what i said and meant. not falling for that shit.

the comment about yolmer was incidentally. if madrigal didn't exist we'd be fine with sanchez at 2nd.

Here's your problem iddy, I talk in English and you listen in Dingbat (See A. Bunker). I never said I expect Madrigal to hit for power, and certainly not for HR power. Please point out where I said this. He will never be a power hitter and probably we should be fortunate if he ever reaches even low double figures in the dinger dept. What richi said and I fully concur is that he needs to for some power, as in hit more gappers that turn into doubles and triples. A pure singles hitter usually doesn't last long in today's MLB, unless he consistently hits +.300 every season. So if I confused you by failing to previously mention that I expect Madrigal to smack a lot of doubles & triples, but not necessarily send the ball over the wall a great deal, consider yourself de-confused.

 

[idseer]

Here's your problem iddy, I talk in English and you listen in Dingbat (See A. Bunker). I never said I expect Madrigal to hit for power, and certainly not for HR power. Please point out where I said this. He will never be a power hitter and probably we should be fortunate if he ever reaches even low double figures in the dinger dept. What richi said and I fully concur is that he needs to for some power, as in hit more gappers that turn into doubles and triples. A pure singles hitter usually doesn't last long in today's MLB, unless he consistently hits +.300 every season. So if I confused you by failing to previously mention that I expect Madrigal to smack a lot of doubles & triples, but not necessarily send the ball over the wall a great deal, consider yourself de-confused.

i don't have to point that out because you didn't say it like that.
..... richig's post ""Well, he (Madrigal) does need to show that he can hit for some power. Not necessarily home runs, but we do need some gap-to-gap type of power.""
he went on to make another point. your reply was ""Because I agree wholeheartedly with both"".
so maybe you don't understand english as well as you think you do.

see, the way i read that is he thinks madrigal needs to hit with gap-like power and that you wholeheartedly agree!
i replied ""i disagree ... with the notion madrigal has to be some kind of gap/power hitter"" but now you want to say i accused you of wanting him to be a home-run hitter.

so ... if you're just going to flat out lie about this then i guess there's nothing more to say.
if you can't be any more honest with things like this you really should STOP ADDRESSING ME! when i address some dumb-ass point you make just leave it alone because i'll be right and you'll have to lie to salve your wounds.

 

[Jiddy]

Here's your problem iddy, I talk in English and you listen in Dingbat (See A. Bunker). I never said I expect Madrigal to hit for power, and certainly not for HR power. Please point out where I said this. He will never be a power hitter and probably we should be fortunate if he ever reaches even low double figures in the dinger dept. What richi said and I fully concur is that he needs to for some power, as in hit more gappers that turn into doubles and triples. A pure singles hitter usually doesn't last long in today's MLB, unless he consistently hits +.300 every season. So if I confused you by failing to previously mention that I expect Madrigal to smack a lot of doubles & triples, but not necessarily send the ball over the wall a great deal, consider yourself de-confused.

*waits patiently for idseer to refer to LSD as Meathead*

 

[Jiddy]

i don't have to point that out because you didn't say it like that.
..... richig's post ""Well, he (Madrigal) does need to show that he can hit for some power. Not necessarily home runs, but we do need some gap-to-gap type of power.""
he went on to make another point. your reply was ""Because I agree wholeheartedly with both"".
so maybe you don't understand english as well as you think you do.

see, the way i read that is he thinks madrigal needs to hit with gap-like power and that you wholeheartedly agree!
i replied ""i disagree ... with the notion madrigal has to be some kind of gap/power hitter"" but now you want to say i accused you of wanting him to be a home-run hitter.

so ... if you're just going to flat out lie about this then i guess there's nothing more to say.
if you can't be any more honest with things like this you really should STOP ADDRESSING ME! when i address some dumb-ass point you make just leave it alone because i'll be right and you'll have to lie to salve your wounds.

You know...I actually around some rare footage of Madrigal with this newfound power on the internet:

 

[Jiddy]

LOL...That's mingo LSD and richi in the stands leaning over.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

i don't have to point that out because you didn't say it like that.
..... richig's post ""Well, he (Madrigal) does need to show that he can hit for some power. Not necessarily home runs, but we do need some gap-to-gap type of power.""
he went on to make another point. your reply was ""Because I agree wholeheartedly with both"".
so maybe you don't understand english as well as you think you do.

see, the way i read that is he thinks madrigal needs to hit with gap-like power and that you wholeheartedly agree!
i replied ""i disagree ... with the notion madrigal has to be some kind of gap/power hitter"" but now you want to say i accused you of wanting him to be a home-run hitter.

so ... if you're just going to flat out lie about this then i guess there's nothing more to say.
if you can't be any more honest with things like this you really should STOP ADDRESSING ME! when i address some dumb-ass point you make just leave it alone because i'll be right and you'll have to lie to salve your wounds.

STFU already, you're always like a period without the rag. I'll make a deal with you, if you stop directly responding to my posts, I'll do likewise. Anything that will get you to shut your fucking trap with me.

 

[Mingo]

Pitchers and Catchers report today. Madrigal has been there 3 weeks already.

This is my favorite period of White Sox idolatry. Every pitcher and hitter has improved himself the whole off season. All Things Good!

 

[idseer]

STFU already, you're always like a period without the rag. I'll make a deal with you, if you stop directly responding to my posts, I'll do likewise. Anything that will get you to shut your fucking trap with me.

notice no apology for the lie? you're a loser lsd, not to mention a .

 

[richig07]

More bullsh*t talk about "what should be"...like as if a draft pick is some sort of guarantee. How many top ten picks from 2015/2016/2017 have produced anything of serious consequence by the 2019 season? Bregman? Maybe a couple others that did some stuff. Over 75% of them haven't done sh*t at this point...That calculates out to....Likelihood is that Madrigal doesn't do sh*t until...2022...if anything at all.

Our management, and thus in lock step our fans, are consistently playing this "watch what's coming from the young guys" card...but the reality is that the odds are stacked heavily against us in each individual case. Because that's just what it is.

*shakes head* Our OWN top ten picks from 15/16/17 (I guess you can count Burger too at 11)...Zilch from any of them up to this point. NOTHING...NADA...NIET...POTATO SALAD. Be it from production, inexperience, injury, depth at the position or otherwise. It doesn't matter. NOTHING. The big zonkarooni.

"But Nick Madrigal's gonna save the day. We expect and should expect this because draft pick #4."
.

You are utterly incapable of understanding just basic common sense. You missed the point entirely, holy shit. Not to mention, the fact that 15/16/17 picks have nothing to do with this. Not to mention, that two had their careers derailed by injuries. Them failing doesn't = It's totally fine if Madrigal fails and we should expect that.

No one is saying that Madrigal is guaranteed to be ANYTHING. I have even expressed concern over possible flaws in Madrigal's game. However, just like when you draft a QB top ten overall. You expect him to be a franchise QB. When you draft a 2B #4 overall and he quickly becomes a top 20 overall prospect in all of baseball? The expectation for him is to be a productive MLB player and a staple at 2B for the near future.

Yes, Madrigal absolutely has not proven to even be as good as Sanchez at the MLB level... what's your point there? He hasn't played yet. However, if he only manages to become a good glove with utility man caliber offense? That's failing to meet expectations. Nick Madrigal would be a failed prospect.

"But Nick Madrigal's gonna save the day. We expect and should expect this because draft pick #4."

This organization is counting on Madrigal being the long-term lead-off man. Just like the Yankees are counting on Torres and other teams have to count on the guys they developed.

We jettisoned Sanchez because we felt Madrigal would be a clear upgrade to him. If he winds up as Yolmer Sanchez. The Nick Madrigal era will be unsuccessful.

Period. End of story.

Should we be okay that Trubisky is a back-end NFL QB since Mike Glennon and Matt Barkley were too? Should we expect the #2 overall pick and future franchise QB to fail? Is that how you build a team? With that in mind?

"Well, our QB history consists of Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart and Jay Cutler. So, let's not expect much from this guy we just decided to build our whole franchise around."

You draft guys because you feel they are an upgrade over what you have and that they will contribute. What do you think the alternative to that is? lol

Likelihood is that Madrigal doesn't do sh*t until...2022...if anything at all.

You're a moron who constantly conflates correlation and causation. Madrigal will be in year #3 and 26 years old by 2022. Half of baseball's first round picks are out of HS or JUCO's and 18-19 when they begin their minor league career.

And if he doesn't do anything, at all? Yes, he was a failed draft pick/prospect. What the hell is your point?


Most of all, who put a time limit on Madrigal saying he HAS to become an all-star by 2020? This is a strawman argument on your part. No one has put timelines on this.

Our management, and thus in lock step our fans, are consistently playing this "watch what's coming from the young guys" card...but the reality is that the odds are stacked heavily against us in each individual case. Because that's just what it is.

You're are..... just an absolute idiot, Jiddy. I've danced around this for too long.

The odds are not stacked against each of baseball's top prospects from turning into good MLB players. It's unbelievable how dumb of a statement that is. Every successful team not named the Yankees builds their core by developing their farm system and top prospective young talent. It's how the Cubs built/sustained success. It's what developed the Astros core. It's what developed the Nationals core. Even the Yankees and Red Sox (the biggest spenders) have had their cores mostly made up of guys they developed themselves.

But you would rather have aging/declining Chris Sale with a UCL injury heading into a contention window than you would Moncada and Kopech. Like, holy shit...

Your opinion on anything baseball related should never be taken seriously. At least Iddy is baseball intelligent and just a cranky old man who enjoys screaming at the clouds. You vomit on your keyboard and hit "post reply".

 

[idseer]

You are utterly incapable of understanding just basic common sense. You missed the point entirely, holy shit. Not to mention, the fact that 15/16/17 picks have nothing to do with this. Not to mention, that two had their careers derailed by injuries. Them failing doesn't = It's totally fine if Madrigal fails and we should expect that.

No one is saying that Madrigal is guaranteed to be ANYTHING. I have even expressed concern over possible flaws in Madrigal's game. However, just like when you draft a QB top ten overall. You expect him to be a franchise QB. When you draft a 2B #4 overall and he quickly becomes a top 20 overall prospect in all of baseball? The expectation for him is to be a productive MLB player and a staple at 2B for the near future.

Yes, Madrigal absolutely has not proven to even be as good as Sanchez at the MLB level... what's your point there? He hasn't played yet. However, if he only manages to become a good glove with utility man caliber offense? That's failing to meet expectations. Nick Madrigal would be a failed prospect.

"But Nick Madrigal's gonna save the day. We expect and should expect this because draft pick #4."

This organization is counting on Madrigal being the long-term lead-off man. Just like the Yankees are counting on Torres and other teams have to count on the guys they developed.

We jettisoned Sanchez because we felt Madrigal would be a clear upgrade to him. If he winds up as Yolmer Sanchez. The Nick Madrigal era will be unsuccessful.

Period. End of story.

Should we be okay that Trubisky is a back-end NFL QB since Mike Glennon and Matt Barkley were too? Should we expect the #2 overall pick and future franchise QB to fail? Is that how you build a team? With that in mind?

"Well, our QB history consists of Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart and Jay Cutler. So, let's not expect much from this guy we just decided to build our whole franchise around."

You draft guys because you feel they are an upgrade over what you have and that they will contribute. What do you think the alternative to that is? lol

Likelihood is that Madrigal doesn't do sh*t until...2022...if anything at all.

You're a moron who constantly conflates correlation and causation. Madrigal will be in year #3 and 26 years old by 2022. Half of baseball's first round picks are out of HS or JUCO's and 18-19 when they begin their minor league career.

And if he doesn't do anything, at all? Yes, he was a failed draft pick/prospect. What the hell is your point?


Most of all, who put a time limit on Madrigal saying he HAS to become an all-star by 2020? This is a strawman argument on your part. No one has put timelines on this.

Our management, and thus in lock step our fans, are consistently playing this "watch what's coming from the young guys" card...but the reality is that the odds are stacked heavily against us in each individual case. Because that's just what it is.

You're are..... just an absolute idiot, Jiddy. I've danced around this for too long.

The odds are not stacked against each of baseball's top prospects from turning into good MLB players. It's unbelievable how dumb of a statement that is. Every successful team not named the Yankees builds their core by developing their farm system and top prospective young talent. It's how the Cubs built/sustained success. It's what developed the Astros core. It's what developed the Nationals core. Even the Yankees and Red Sox (the biggest spenders) have had their cores mostly made up of guys they developed themselves.

But you would rather have aging/declining Chris Sale with a UCL injury heading into a contention window than you would Moncada and Kopech. Like, holy shit...

Your opinion on anything baseball related should never be taken seriously. At least Iddy is baseball intelligent and just a cranky old man who enjoys screaming at the clouds. You vomit on your keyboard and hit "post reply".

wow! this might be the record for the most verbiage in defense of one's own stupidity.

 

[Jiddy]

You're are..... just an absolute idiot, Jiddy. I've danced around this for too long.

Oof...I'm not even replying to all that dumbassery point for point because it's wrong and you don't care anyway. The probability of success regarding timing and overall production for a player or set of players is difficult as it is for the most expert of baseball experts. Expecting the average baseball fan to do so is ridiculous. Nothing matters until we see the player in the bigs for an extended time.

I bite my thumb at you for all your insults. You haven't danced around anything in that regard. You might think you have, but you're not that slick. It's reflective in how you post towards most people you disagree with even on the most minor of subjects. So don't worry, I was well aware of the "bited tongue" of your arrogance long before you "relieved yourself of the burden of giving the cretin Jiddy his due" here.

 

[richig07]

wow! this might be the record for the most verbiage in defense of one's own stupidity.

You're right.

Our offensive expectations for Madrigal should be that of a utility infielder. Since that is who he replaced.

Keep telling us how you can win a world series with Ryan Theriot. You utter joke.

 

[richig07]

not surprising i'd have to step you thru things. you are quite thick.

Did you just name two part-time Cardinals who barely saw post-season action in 2011. The same team? They were both the starting 2B, huh?
yes i did. they played most of the 2nd base more those teams in their w.s winning seasons. which is my fucking point!

Omar Infante never won a world series
omar infante played in 124 games at 2nd base for the w.s. winning 2015 royals' season.

Joe Panik sucks... now... But he did win a world series
again ... my point.

not even going to bother with the rest of your really ignorant post.

You're so old and dense. Take a breath, and listen stupid...

Joe Panik was fantastic during the world series winning season. He hit over .300 and had an OPS over .800 in both of those seasons combined. He was a beast. An all-star. He has been horrible since.

Give me that Panik from Madrigal over the course of a career? Great. Panik since then? No. You are being dishonest... since you are using Panik's name (based on his recent performance) to say "hey, you can win with a sub-par offensive 2B". But he wasn't when he was apart of those winning teams. He was ELITE.

We agree about Panik during those years. I would love THAT ELITE OFFENSIVE production from Madrigal. Panik was ELITE offensively in those seasons.

omar infante played in 124 games at 2nd base for the w.s. winning 2015 royals' season.

He never played a post-season game. Clearly, he was SUPER valuable to them.

You're embarrassing yourself.

not even going to bother with the rest of your really ignorant post

Yeah, good call you fucking asshole. Save yourself the embarrassment of trying defend how you just vomited out two middle infielders who had stats like "5 PA's in an entire post-season".

You humiliated yourself.



Go take a lap, you old fuck.

 

[idseer]

You're so old and dense. Take a breath, and listen stupid...

Joe Panik was fantastic during the world series winning season. He hit over .300 and had an OPS over .800 in both of those seasons combined. He was a beast. An all-star. He has been horrible since.

Give me that Panik from Madrigal over the course of a career? Great. Panik since then? No. You are being dishonest... since you are using Panik's name (based on his recent performance) to say "hey, you can win with a sub-par offensive 2B". But he wasn't when he was apart of those winning teams. He was ELITE.

We agree about Panik during those years. I would love THAT ELITE OFFENSIVE production from Madrigal. Panik was ELITE offensively in those seasons.

omar infante played in 124 games at 2nd base for the w.s. winning 2015 royals' season.

He never played a post-season game. Clearly, he was SUPER valuable to them.

You're embarrassing yourself.

not even going to bother with the rest of your really ignorant post

Yeah, good call you fucking asshole. Save yourself the embarrassment of trying defend how you just vomited out two middle infielders who had stats like "5 PA's in an entire post-season".

You humiliated yourself.

Go take a lap, you old fuck.

i can't forgive you even tho i know you're a stupid young twat who doesn't understand anything more complicated than how to play with your own dick.

the ENTIRE POINT of my post was those teams won those world series' withOUT some high hitting power gap hitting 2nd baseman. it doesn't MATTER whether infante played in the series you fucking dolt! he was their 2nd baseman most of that year! EVERY SINGLE ONE of the guys i named was the 2nd basemen for those world series teams for most of those w.s. seasons! panik did hit .300 in '14 but with 1 home run, 18 rbi's, 10 doubles and 2 triples. brandon hicks was their other 2nd baseman who hit .162! last year sanchez hit 'only' .242 but also hit 8 hr's with 55 rbi's with 34 doubles and 10 triples.

if you're STILL too fucking thick to get my meaning that's your tough luck.
you're a stupid fan-wannabe who thinks he can contribute something meaningful here but you're just a stupid kid with no fucking clue!

 

[Mingo]

The thing I'd most like to see in this White Sox team is a team of players playing to win - who are obviously having fun playing the game of baseball. If these are the guys - who were assembled to win championships together - and they are all about the same age and each with a special talent for the game and making their share of money. If they learn to have fun playing together early in the cycle. We might have a team for the White Sox ages.

 

[Jiddy]

The thing I'd most like to see in this White Sox team is a team of players playing to win - who are obviously having fun playing the game of baseball. If these are the guys - who were assembled to win championships together - and they are all about the same age and each with a special talent for the game and making their share of money. If they learn to have fun playing together early in the cycle. We might have a team for the White Sox ages.

This post, while I know is well-meaning, reminds me of the Favre days. Packers win a bazillion games..."He's just having so much fun out there!" Packers struggling "He needs to get back to having fun out there."

Winning is fun.

Besides, we have Yastangibles. We should be good in the forces of nature department.

Like a well oiled machine of team dynamic. Probably an 82 win well-oiled machine, but still...pies in faces during tv interviews...bubble gum bubbles on unknowing heads...Kick me signs...Probably a whoopee cushion or two.

If I see a White Sox player playing hopscotch in the goddamn dugout...I will think of you. I promise you that.

 

[Mingo]

@Jiddy

Here's where I will quibble in response - I said "fun playing the game of baseball" the pure fun of being involved in the sport. Your examples - actually prove the opposite of my reference - your examples

pies in faces during tv interviews...bubble gum bubbles on unknowing heads...Kick me signs...Probably a whoopee cushion or two.

show a boredom with the game of baseball - and not guys playing to win.

I think we agree to a large extent. The difference being is I see having fun playing the game as a force multiplier and you see satisfaction solely through the lens of Ws and Ls.

 

[idseer]

@Jiddy

Here's where I will quibble in response - I said "fun playing the game of baseball" the pure fun of being involved in the sport. Your examples - actually prove the opposite of my reference - your examples show a boredom with the game of baseball - and not guys playing to win.

I think we agree to a large extent. The difference being is I see having fun playing the game as a force multiplier and you see satisfaction solely through the lens of Ws and Ls.

in other words ... loving what you're supposed to be doing.