QB Value

[ATL96Steeler]

Alright so lemme preface this by saying I swear to God I'm not trying to start some 8 page argument about Cousins with this thread. We've got time to figure out what to do with him. But I have been thinking about the position both as it pertains to Cousins and the Skins as well as the league as a whole. So that being said...

I'm curious about a couple things not because I'll necessarily disagree but because I'm curious what people think.
Let's pretend all the guys I mention are on expiring contracts.

1. What type of extension would you give Tyrod Taylor?
2. What type of extension would you give Ryan Fitzpatrick?
3. What type of extension would you give Brian Hoyer?
4. What type of extension would you give Blake Bortles?
5. What type of extension would you give Jameis Winston?
6. What type of extension would you give Carson Palmer?

And finally what would it take for you to trade Kirk Cousins if you were GM based on draft pick compensation?

If I'm connecting the dots correctly, I take it that you view Cousins in the same vein as the QBs you listed.

In either case...here you go.

Taylor...I think Cousins more closely lines up with this guy...been in the league for a few years finally got a chance to start and made fairly good on it in a FA yr...4/$70/$20G

Fitz & Hoyer ages make them stop gap QBs at this point. Both are playing because the younger QB failed or got injured. I know the same applies for Cousins in sense, I think he's young enough to be looking for a long term starter type contract....these guys 3/$30/$12G

Bortles & Winston...imo both of these guys will get 2nd contracts from their current teams and I think deals like Dalton got in probably in play here. 6/$80-90/$30G

Palmer is a totally different animal...nearing the end of his career, but has really shined the last 2 years, a serious MVP candidate this season...4/$65/$40G

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Great reply ATL & verifies what a lot of folks have stated on here previously. Anyone who believes that the Redskins can lowball Cousins for much less than $10 M/season is living in a dream world.

 

[Stymietee]

Great reply ATL & verifies what a lot of folks have stated on here previously. Anyone who believes that the Redskins can lowball Cousins for much less than $10 M/season is living in a dream world.

I completely agree! Even if Washington offers such a contract the very poor Free agent market will cause someone to overpay him or at minimum offer a more lucrative contract. In as much as the hope that the HC/QB/comfort level here will help to sway KC into accepting a lesser contract here, imo I honestly believe that Kirk is no different than any other player in the game today. Most of whom while giving their farewell presser, will stick to that time worn refrain........."I love working here with this organization, Jay, and all of the guys in that locker room, but in the final analysis I had to do what was in the best interest of my family."

Bottom line, he gets overpaid here or elsewhere.

 

[j_y19]

I completely agree! Even if Washington offers such a contract the very poor Free agent market will cause someone to overpay him or at minimum offer a more lucrative contract. In as much as the hope that the HC/QB/comfort level here will help to sway KC into accepting a lesser contract here, imo I honestly believe that Kirk is no different than any other player in the game today. Most of whom while giving their farewell presser, will stick to that time worn refrain........."I love working here with this organization, Jay, and all of the guys in that locker room, but in the final analysis I had to do what was in the best interest of my family."

Bottom line, he gets overpaid here or elsewhere.

I agree. So where would you draw the line? Would you consider using the franchise tag (projected to be approx. 18m next year)?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I completely agree! Even if Washington offers such a contract the very poor Free agent market will cause someone to overpay him or at minimum offer a more lucrative contract. In as much as the hope that the HC/QB/comfort level here will help to sway KC into accepting a lesser contract here, imo I honestly believe that Kirk is no different than any other player in the game today. Most of whom while giving their farewell presser, will stick to that time worn refrain........."I love working here with this organization, Jay, and all of the guys in that locker room, but in the final analysis I had to do what was in the best interest of my family."

Bottom line, he gets overpaid here or elsewhere.

Well - if he gets overpaid here - so be it - that is life in the NFL in 2015/2016. As for going elsewhere - there are not a lot of good candidates for his services. The only legit candidates are teams that have issues like the 49ers & the Browns. If Cousins gets a decent offer from the Skins (which appears likely) I really doubt that he would bolt to one of these teams for a few extra $$.

 

[Stymietee]

Well - if he gets overpaid here - so be it - that is life in the NFL in 2015/2016. As for going elsewhere - there are not a lot of good candidates for his services. The only legit candidates are teams that have issues like the 49ers & the Browns. If Cousins gets a decent offer from the Skins (which appears likely) I really doubt that he would bolt to one of these teams for a few extra $$.

What's decent in this regard?

 

[Stymietee]

I agree. So where would you draw the line? Would you consider using the franchise tag (projected to be approx. 18m next year)?

Smart money says to FT him reluctantly for the 1 year at 18+ million. If they don't and he bolts, I don't think that it's going to be as bad as others do here.

 

[Sharkinva]

Smart money says to FT him reluctantly for the 1 year at 18+ million. If they don't and he bolts, I don't think that it's going to be as bad as others do here.

You have made this statement a few times. And the follow up question left unanswered is generally... whats plan B??


More to the point, whats plan B that does not involve this team again going into the of season with the same old question... who's the QB going to be??

 

[Stymietee]

You have made this statement a few times. And the follow up question left unanswered is generally... whats plan B??


More to the point, whats plan B that does not involve this team again going into the of season with the same old question... who's the QB going to be??

Well, I think if he bolts they will have no problem replacing him. He's not as good as some say and not as bad as others do. Therein lies the answer......can they find a guy who is not as good as some say and not as bad as others do? Absolutely! !!!

BTW: What if that guy came in and proved to be as competent or slightly better in this offense than Kirk? ( don't know who...but for all who say that they trust in SM.......well......)

 

[Sharkinva]

Well, I think if he bolts they will have no problem replacing him. He's not as good as some say and not as bad as others do. Therein lies the answer......can they find a guy who is not as good as some say and not as bad as others do? Absolutely! !!!

BTW: What if that guy came in and proved to be as competent or slightly better in this offense than Kirk? ( don't know who...but for all who say that they trust in SM.......well......)

Hyperbole at its finest. We have all gone over who or what will likely be available in FA. And some of us ave even started looking at the rookie class. IF you are going to push the well we might be ok line, you have got to have some idea of who we can or should bring in that would be as good or better. Come on man, put a name to it. And lets be honest here, if we are going to say the Skins dont necessarily HAVE to resign Cousins, there has got to be a name or two tucked under that hat of yours.

Spit it out.

 

[j_y19]

Well, I think if he bolts they will have no problem replacing him. He's not as good as some say and not as bad as others do. Therein lies the answer......can they find a guy who is not as good as some say and not as bad as others do? Absolutely! !!!

BTW: What if that guy came in and proved to be as competent or slightly better in this offense than Kirk? ( don't know who...but for all who say that they trust in SM.......well......)

As a theoretical statement, that's fine. But in reality, who will be available that is better than KC? After all, they have to put someone behind center that can operate the offense and if they let KC walk, his replacement needs to be atleast as productive.

 

[Stymietee]

Hyperbole at its finest. We have all gone over who or what will likely be available in FA. And some of us ave even started looking at the rookie class. IF you are going to push the well we might be ok line, you have got to have some idea of who we can or should bring in that would be as good or better. Come on man, put a name to it. And lets be honest here, if we are going to say the Skins dont necessarily HAVE to resign Cousins, there has got to be a name or two tucked under that hat of yours.

Spit it out.

They will FT him

 

[Sharkinva]

They will FT him

So you think its a better option to Tag him than just sign him to a decent long term deal??

 

[Stymietee]

As a theoretical statement, that's fine. But in reality, who will be available that is better than KC? After all, they have to put someone behind center that can operate the offense and if they let KC walk, his replacement needs to be atleast as productive.

Agreed, but imo KC has been more the beneficiary of the system rather than someone who makes the system stronger/better. To me that is the question that this organization will come to terms with prior to making a long term contractual agreement with him. There's going to be much disagreement in that regard and ultimately they pay the FT in order to gain clarity.

 

[Stymietee]

So you think its a better option to Tag him than just sign him to a decent long term deal??

Absolutely!!!! My answer to j_y19 ( above) makes it clear why I believe that.

BTW: I don't think that a "decent" contract will be enough to retain him. The market will drive the cost of his services up well beyond whatever "decent" is.

 

[Sharkinva]

Absolutely!!!! My answer to j_y19 ( above) makes it clear why I believe that.

BTW: I don't think that a "decent" contract will be enough to retain him. The market will drive the cost of his services up well beyond whatever "decent" is.

OK got it. But I will point out, it does sound like you are advocating they let him walk and the team should go in another direction. Because lets face it, short of him imploding and throwing 16 picks over the next three games... the only reason you could come up with for letting Kirk walk would be...

1. You have some one better in mind.
2. You just want some one other than Cousins.

Notice I dont think his possible contract would be a real reason, but more of an excuse for going in another direction.

 

[Stymietee]

OK got it. But I will point out, it does sound like you are advocating they let him walk and the team should go in another direction. Because lets face it, short of him imploding and throwing 16 picks over the next three games... the only reason you could come up with for letting Kirk walk would be...

1. You have some one better in mind.
2. You just want some one other than Cousins.

Notice I dont think his possible contract would be a real reason, but more of an excuse for going in another direction.

You just don't quit huh? I've stated a reason beyond any that you suggest that I have. Although you may not agree, that is how I see it working out if the tag is not going to be used. To be clear, from my perspective ANY of the current backups, that currently start for injured regular starters would do just as good or better in this system as Kirk. So, before anyone wants to go off on some indefensible tangent, Kirk is a good QB in this offense, but you have to take note of the qualifier.

 

[skinsdad62]

well here is my worth

lining up hoyer , mccown , fitzpatrick to me is basically a band aid and it tells the public you A) planning on having a crap season while we groom a rookie or B) you think they can take us to the promised land next season and we are going to short cut to get there even though it has failed ; hell you might as well line up peyton manning under center there is no future in this

if we are stop gapping, then fine , stop gap with KC we know what the above are all about (journeyman ) and none of you will be satisfied with these guys

what you should be doing is comparing the 2 or 3 guys who could be free next season
tyrod taylor , young mobile qb who has played well this season sunday we will get a 1st hand look at him

2nd brock osweiler a young qb with some physical attributes who has played well when called upon

3 young can overpay for a matt stafford who detroit is becoming dissatisfied with and is being called jeff george

the last option is to keep RG3 and play him hoping his time on the bench helped him be a pro qb (sorry shark )

my thing is i would sign KC either by the FT or make a deal and draft a qb somewhere in the draft ( hogan for instance )

otherwise you are signing a journeyman and are looking at the loser of the goff lynch wentz match in the draft

 

[Sharkinva]

You just don't quit huh? I've stated a reason beyond any that you suggest that I have. Although you may not agree, that is how I see it working out if the tag is not going to be used. To be clear, from my perspective ANY of the current backups, that currently start for injured regular starters would do just as good or better in this system as Kirk. So, before anyone wants to go off on some indefensible tangent, Kirk is a good QB in this offense, but you have to take note of the qualifier.

Got to love the Qualifier thing. So you think ANY backup would do just as well as Kirk in this offense?? Vick?? Kaepernick?? Manziel?? Thats like saying Peyton or Eli could run the read option. Yes Kirk is well qualified to run OUR offense. But I think you give him very little credit in saying that any old stiff could do as well as or better than Kirk has.

 

[Stymietee]

well here is my worth

lining up hoyer , mccown , fitzpatrick to me is basically a band aid and it tells the public you A) planning on having a crap season while we groom a rookie or B) you think they can take us to the promised land next season and we are going to short cut to get there even though it has failed ; hell you might as well line up peyton manning under center there is no future in this

if we are stop gapping, then fine , stop gap with KC we know what the above are all about (journeyman ) and none of you will be satisfied with these guys

what you should be doing is comparing the 2 or 3 guys who could be free next season
tyrod taylor , young mobile qb who has played well this season sunday we will get a 1st hand look at him

2nd brock osweiler a young qb with some physical attributes who has played well when called upon

3 young can overpay for a matt stafford who detroit is becoming dissatisfied with and is being called jeff george

the last option is to keep RG3 and play him hoping his time on the bench helped him be a pro qb (sorry shark )

my thing is i would sign KC either by the FT or make a deal and draft a qb somewhere in the draft ( hogan for instance )

otherwise you are signing a journeyman and are looking at the loser of the goff lynch wentz match in the draft [/QUOTE/]

It has been done before with Journeymen or journeymen types:
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Mark Rypien*
Doug Williams
Jeff Hostetler
Jim Plunkett**