QB options for next year

[MrS]

Watching the team lose every week sounds pretty terrible to me as well.

we have two more sure losses to watch in the next two weeks

 

[HaroldSeattle]

How are Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson doing? I realize that everyone REALLY wanted Stroud, in retrospect, but that wasn't what was actually being discussed here and other places. The Houton Texans won 3, 4, and 4 games in their previous 3 seasons. So let's not pretend that one top draft pick is going to net the same a franchise QB.

There is no question that getting a new coach creates a bunch of risks. It is FAR from certain that we will hire a successful head coach. At best, it is a 50/50 proposition. Which is why I usually don't advocate for changes coaches.

But, at some point, we have to accept that it isn't working anymore. Pete's 72 years old. He runs the same defensive system today that he did 10 years ago. Is there ANY evidence that he is willing to innovate on the defensive side of the ball? And best case, how long do you think Pete will keep coaching? If he has 3 years, at most, left in him, and we continue to be a league average team, what then?

I get that some of you think that all we need to do is replace Geno with a really good QB and things will turn around but that ignores the facts on the ground.

Well a new coach is not a 50-50 proposition. I’d say one out of ten work out, maybe not even that many really. Also I don’t feel the Seahawks are a QB away from winning, lot of work needs to continue on the rebuild. I do feel the QB position is a crucial piece and the hardest to hit on and Geno isn’t the answer, he was fine for the first year of the rebuild but beyond that finding a QB to build around should of been the priority, especially when your in range of the top prospects at the position. This isn’t hindsight on my part, I was saying this all last off season. I get how hard it is to hit on a QB and also understand the odds get longer the later you draft one. So you need to take your shot at one as soon as feasible and if you miss you miss and you move on to the next one.
While I do think Pete can coach I am getting discouraged with his shortcuts bombing. He’s not getting fired, but maybe he retire, if so then fine. It is coming sooner or later. I’m not eager to rush that myself, because I still remember the Seahawks history of poor coaching and not eager to revisit that experience again. I feel the reason for the anti Pete feeling is his style doesn’t excite, folks think the Seahawks will hire the next Shannahan and it will be exciting, but odds are they get a dud and since we presently have a good coach let’s not be in a hurry for that long shot coaching staff to hit.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well a new coach is not a 50-50 proposition. I’d say one out of ten work out, maybe not even that many really. Also I don’t feel the Seahawks are a QB away from winning, lot of work needs to continue on the rebuild. I do feel the QB position is a crucial piece and the hardest to hit on and Geno isn’t the answer, he was fine for the first year of the rebuild but beyond that finding a QB to build around should of been the priority, especially when your in range of the top prospects at the position. This isn’t hindsight on my part, I was saying this all last off season. I get how hard it is to hit on a QB and also understand the odds get longer the later you draft one. So you need to take your shot at one as soon as feasible and if you miss you miss and you move on to the next one.

The odds get even worse if you reach for one. 2 years ago, there wasn't a QB worth a 1st round pick. Last year there were 4 rated as 1st round picks. One of them, so far, looks the part.

And the problem with trying to get the best QB in a draft class is that your team usually needs to be truly horrendous or get lucky with a traded draft pick, like Chicago is going to be.

We all agree that Geno is a stopgap. But so far there hasn't been a better option available to replace him. Even if the Seahawks wanted to, Stroud, Young and Richardson were taken before we drafted. I guess we could have given up our 1st, next year's first, a 2nd this year, a 2nd next year, and DK Metcalf and drafted Young. You think that Young is worth 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and a high quality player? Assuming that was who they drafted, because all the reports suggested that Richardson was the guy they liked.

While I do think Pete can coach I am getting discouraged with his shortcuts bombing. He’s not getting fired, but maybe he retire, if so then fine. It is coming sooner or later. I’m not eager to rush that myself, because I still remember the Seahawks history of poor coaching and not eager to revisit that experience again. I feel the reason for the anti Pete feeling is his style doesn’t excite, folks think the Seahawks will hire the next Shannahan and it will be exciting, but odds are they get a dud and since we presently have a good coach let’s not be in a hurry for that long shot coaching staff to hit.

I don't want to move on from Pete because of his style. I want to move on because he is completely unwilling to change his philosophy and his philosophy isn't working. I think Pete can still coach but I think the time has a clear ceiling of what we can achieve.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The odds get even worse if you reach for one. 2 years ago, there wasn't a QB worth a 1st round pick. Last year there were 4 rated as 1st round picks. One of them, so far, looks the part.

And the problem with trying to get the best QB in a draft class is that your team usually needs to be truly horrendous or get lucky with a traded draft pick, like Chicago is going to be.

We all agree that Geno is a stopgap. But so far there hasn't been a better option available to replace him. Even if the Seahawks wanted to, Stroud, Young and Richardson were taken before we drafted. I guess we could have given up our 1st, next year's first, a 2nd this year, a 2nd next year, and DK Metcalf and drafted Young. You think that Young is worth 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and a high quality player? Assuming that was who they drafted, because all the reports suggested that Richardson was the guy they liked.



I don't want to move on from Pete because of his style. I want to move on because he is completely unwilling to change his philosophy and his philosophy isn't working. I think Pete can still coach but I think the time has a clear ceiling of what we can achieve.

Lets be honest here, most here were against using the #5 pick on a QB no matter which one might be available. Also Richardson looked really good until he got injured, injury isn't something you can predict. He looked like he was cool under pressure, threw well, ran well. Maybe next year he has better luck staying healthy, who knows.
Also Pete has already won a Super Bowl, so that's his ceiling and the team returned to the Super Bowl the following year if you remember. It takes a talented roster, good coaching, luck with health and getting some of the lucky bounces. Once you go to the top, hard to remain there because that's how the NFL wants it, which is why the draft is set up the way it is and the cap makes it hard because with team success players want to be rewarded financially, pretty much all of them.
Pete philosophy works just fine, but I get it, some prefer more flash, WRs going in motion this way and that way. No matter the system it only works with a talented roster.
Shannahan record with 49ers


So he had a 4-12 record twice ( does help with draft position though), and a 6-10 record. So he had losing seasons half the time. It's really more about wanting the flash then the results isn't it?

 

[flyerhawk]

Lets be honest here, most here were against using the #5 pick on a QB no matter which one might be available. Also Richardson looked really good until he got injured, injury isn't something you can predict. He looked like he was cool under pressure, threw well, ran well. Maybe next year he has better luck staying healthy, who knows.
Also Pete has already won a Super Bowl, so that's his ceiling and the team returned to the Super Bowl the following year if you remember. It takes a talented roster, good coaching, luck with health and getting some of the lucky bounces. Once you go to the top, hard to remain there because that's how the NFL wants it, which is why the draft is set up the way it is and the cap makes it hard because with team success players want to be rewarded financially, pretty much all of them.
Pete philosophy works just fine, but I get it, some prefer more flash, WRs going in motion this way and that way. No matter the system it only works with a talented roster.
Shannahan record with 49ers
View attachment 347759

So he had a 4-12 record twice ( does help with draft position though), and a 6-10 record. So he had losing seasons half the time. It's really more about wanting the flash then the results isn't it?

When was the time the Seahawks won a playoff game? When was the last time we got out of the 2nd round of the playoffs?

I couldn't care less about flash. I care about winning. It's weird that you bring up Shanahan because in the last 5 years he has been to 2 conference championships and a Super Bowl. And they are heavy favorites to get back to at least the conference championship again. And I don't see he had 2 4-12 seasons.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

When was the time the Seahawks won a playoff game? When was the last time we got out of the 2nd round of the playoffs?

I couldn't care less about flash. I care about winning. It's weird that you bring up Shanahan because in the last 5 years he has been to 2 conference championships and a Super Bowl. And they are heavy favorites to get back to at least the conference championship again. And I don't see he had 2 4-12 seasons.

Seahawks are rebuilding, 49ers are in their Super Bowl winner window. Honestly Pete should of done a rebuild years earlier rather than scratch and claw to have mildly winning seasons and a quick exit from the playoffs, but instead he's tried shortcuts that haven't worked. He just hasn't come to terms that it's better to just have a terrible season in order to build a real contender instead of a impostor pretending to be a contender.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seahawks are rebuilding, 49ers are in their Super Bowl winner window. Honestly Pete should of done a rebuild years earlier rather than scratch and claw to have mildly winning seasons and a quick exit from the playoffs, but instead he's tried shortcuts that haven't worked. He just hasn't come to terms that it's better to just have a terrible season in order to build a real contender instead of a impostor pretending to be a contender.

Have you considered that he kept the job because he promised Jodie that he would remain competitive and it was just a retool and not a rebuild?
Look at Bellicheck. The greatest coach of all time and he's likely done in New England after 2 bad seasons.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Have you considered that he kept the job because he promised Jodie that he would remain competitive and it was just a retool and not a rebuild?
Look at Bellicheck. The greatest coach of all time and he's likely done in New England after 2 bad seasons.

He can call it what ever he likes, it's a rebuild.

 

[flyerhawk]

He can call it what ever he likes, it's a rebuild.

IMO, those terms don't really much matter. Outside of QBs, teams pretty much rotate through a cycle of players every 4-5 years. This can be even shorter for defensively focused teams as defensive success has a higher variance on success.

Once we decided to trade Russ, we were stuck with the current landscape. The rest of the roster was light, especially on defense. Russ had carried the team for a couple of seasons but we were paying the price of several bad drafts in a row.

I don't think any team really tries to tank in the NFL. It's just too hard to do.

There were no QBs worth drafting 2 years ago when we took Charles Cross. There were no QBs worth taking when we drafted this year. So I'm not sure what we realistically could have done differently to be on a different track.

The NFL isn't the NBA. You can't just hope for that one home run draft pick to turn your team around.

If you want to see the team REALLY do a rebuild, then you should want to move on from Pete. A new regime would be given some latitude and could dump a bunch of players for assets.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You can't just hope for that one home run draft pick to turn your team around.

Not looking for one player to turn the team around, need a roster of good players. However QB is the most crucial piece, would of been good to secure that piece.

 

[Anointed One]

Lets be honest here, most here were against using the #5 pick on a QB no matter which one might be available. Also Richardson looked really good until he got injured, injury isn't something you can predict. He looked like he was cool under pressure, threw well, ran well. Maybe next year he has better luck staying healthy, who knows.

I don't know about throwing well... He had a 59% completion %... He definitely ran well, that's for sure... Which is why I was against wanting him for the most part... I did not want a running QB because they are more prone to getting hurt... With his size, he's still trying to run through tackles... He's not going to have a long career if he continues to do that... Sad that he basically already proved why I didn't want him this year with his injury in week 4, while trying to run through a tackle...

I was wanting a QB a bit later in the draft because I didn't want to give up a ton to move up and grab Stroud, Young or Richardson... Obvious choice now seems to be Stroud... Thank God we didn't get Young... And i'm still glad we didn't mortgage the farm to get Richardson... He probably would've gotten hurt and we would've been stuck with Drew Lock playing most of the year...

All in all, I wouldn't say Richardson is a sure thing to succeed in the NFL...

 

[flyerhawk]

Not looking for one player to turn the team around, need a roster of good players. However QB is the most crucial piece, would of been good to secure that piece.

OK. What would you have done to get that QB? I asked earlier. Would you have done what the Panthers did? 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and a No. 1 WR?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

OK. What would you have done to get that QB? I asked earlier. Would you have done what the Panthers did? 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and a No. 1 WR?

That was steep, not sure I would recommend it TBH. Guess it was what I perceived as lack of effort on the Seahawks part. Seemed like the plan going into the draft was to go with Geno.

 

[flyerhawk]

That was steep, not sure I would recommend it TBH. Guess it was what I perceived as lack of effort on the Seahawks part. Seemed like the plan going into the draft was to go with Geno.

From everything I read, they were genuinely intrigued with Richardson. I doubt they had much interest in giving up all the draft capital they acquired, and more, to move up and get Young or Stroud.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

From everything I read, they were genuinely intrigued with Richardson. I doubt they had much interest in giving up all the draft capital they acquired, and more, to move up and get Young or Stroud.

IDK seemed like they were trying to signal they were interested in drafting a QB as a smoke screen. They went out of their way to get PR with each QB they visited, photo's and staff and Pete with his usual complimentary remarks. I was totally convinced a QB wasn't the target.

 

[flyerhawk]

IDK seemed like they were trying to signal they were interested in drafting a QB as a smoke screen. They went out of their way to get PR with each QB they visited, photo's and staff and Pete with his usual complimentary remarks. I was totally convinced a QB wasn't the target.

I don't think it was per se. As I said at the time, I would have been fine if they went QB although I had, and have, serious misgivings about Richardson. But I think they believed that they could win if they could get enough talent on the roster, even with Geno as QB.

 

[MrS]

This draft is our best opportunity to take a QB and it may always have been the plan.

Say we pick 19th, we can still take one. We could move up to take one. There will probably be 5 or 6 Qbs taken round 1 and half will be outside the top 10.

 

[Podunkparte]

The best metric in gaging a team's ability to win the SB is elite QB play.

Geno is not elite, therefore, that position needs to be upgraded.

The best way to upgrade that position is to draft where QBs are taken: top 10-15.

I don't care if we win the next 5 games or not because I care more about winning future Super Bowls. We put ourselves in better position to do that by finding the next QB, and this draft has 5-6 guys who look like they could be him.

IMO 5 meaningless wins and an easy out in the Wild Card round is not worth not being able to draft that next guy.

 

[Anointed One]

This draft is our best opportunity to take a QB and it may always have been the plan.

Possibly...

 

[MrS]

I don't know about throwing well... He had a 59% completion %... He definitely ran well, that's for sure... Which is why I was against wanting him for the most part... I did not want a running QB because they are more prone to getting hurt... With his size, he's still trying to run through tackles... He's not going to have a long career if he continues to do that... Sad that he basically already proved why I didn't want him this year with his injury in week 4, while trying to run through a tackle...

I was wanting a QB a bit later in the draft because I didn't want to give up a ton to move up and grab Stroud, Young or Richardson... Obvious choice now seems to be Stroud... Thank God we didn't get Young... And i'm still glad we didn't mortgage the farm to get Richardson... He probably would've gotten hurt and we would've been stuck with Drew Lock playing most of the year...

All in all, I wouldn't say Richardson is a sure thing to succeed in the NFL...

he reminds me a lot of jake locker and vince young, I dont think he survives long in the league.

IMO 5 meaningless wins and an easy out in the Wild Card round is not worth not being able to draft that next guy.

Agree with this. 7 wins could land us in the top 8.