Prince Fielder

[magnumo]

He's an average defensive 1b. People just assume that because he's fat he's a defensive liability. I would wager those who believe that haven't watched him play on a regular basis. Is he going to win a gold glove? No. But he's not going to be a gaping hole either.

That assertion is absolutely false. And you would lose your wager. I have seen Fielder play quite a number of times. As element has posted previously, Fielder "brings negative defensive value at first freaking base." In other words, he is well below average on defense. There's no assumption involved. His fielding numbers at both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference demonstrate that beyond any reasonable doubt.

Prince Fielder Statistics Batting | FanGraphs Baseball

Prince Fielder Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Given his conditioning problems, his fielding likely will get worse as he ages. Fielder's value comes from his bat..... his defense subtracts from the value his bat brings.

 

[magnumo]

message board dude....of course they are his opinions,but that doesnt mean he will be wrong.....i dont think texas will go over 6 years and fielder/boras wouldnt want to get pigeon holed as just a DH (as the post he was referring to said)

Any opinion, by definition, is not necessarily wrong. Nor is it necessarily right.

As I have stated previously, the problem is that romeo has been throwing opinions around like confetti, with no facts, data, or sources to back them up.

The nature of most of his opinions and assertions is such that no one will ever know if they are right or wrong. Others already are demonstrably wrong. For example, in his 1/14 post, romeo asserts:

1. Boras probably has overpriced Fielder, expecting to get a Pujols-like deal.
2. The Pujols deal was very stupid.
3. Only Washington, Seattle, and maybe Texas are in the mix.
4. The Cubs are not because they're rebuilding.
5. Speculates that Texas will seek a plan B if they don't sign Darvish.
6. Boras thinks Texas and Washington will drive Fielder's price up.
7. The market will pick up the middle of next week.

In actuality:

1. Maybe, but we'll never know.
2. What if Pujols helps the Angels win the WS in 2012 and 2013? Would that make the deal worth it to them, even if Pujols dies before the contract expires?
3. I've seen several other teams mentioned in the media.....
4. .....including the Cubs.
5. Texas DID sign Darvish, but seem to remain in the mix anyway.
6. We don't know what Boras is thinking.
7. The "middle of next week" has passed..... and nothing has happened.

In his post on 1/15, romeo states, "I guarantee Texas won't go over 6 years if they do get involved" and goes on to indicate that the Nationals' front office is stupid. Numerous media reports indicate that Texas IS involved, and I submit that romeo cannot guarantee anything about what Texas will or won't do.

On 1/16, romeo makes two posts stating that Fielder won't sign as a DH, that he wants to play 1B, and that even the Yankees wouldn't be dumb enough to sign him as a DH (in effect adding a third MLB front office to his "stupid" list). Maybe Fielder WANTS to play 1B (although I've seen nothing in the media indicating that), but the fact remains that Fielder's fielding detracts from his value. Any AL team which can afford to pay for Fielder's bat would be better off with Fielder DHing and a decent fielding first-baseman playing the field. E.g., the Yankees would be better off with Texiera in the field and Fielder at DH.

Finally, today, romeo asserts that Fielder is an average defensive first-baseman..... a statement which is completely false, as refuted by my previous post.

When I post an opinion, I'm in the habit of providing some data, logic, sources, whatever, to back it up. Other regulars on this board do the same. I have asked romeo to provide some basis for his opinions and assertions in this thread, and he has responded with..... absolutely nothing!

In conclusion..... in my opinion, romeo's assertions, with nothing to back them up, add nothing to this discussion. I don't plan to spend any more time reading or discussing his posts.

 

[bone3421]

holy crap...lmao....that is a lot of typing

 

[bone3421]

For example, in his 1/14 post, romeo asserts:

1. Boras probably has overpriced Fielder, expecting to get a Pujols-like deal.
2. The Pujols deal was very stupid.
3. Only Washington, Seattle, and maybe Texas are in the mix.
4. The Cubs are not because they're rebuilding.
5. Speculates that Texas will seek a plan B if they don't sign Darvish.
6. Boras thinks Texas and Washington will drive Fielder's price up.
7. The market will pick up the middle of next week.


so when people post about baseball we should give a reference to all the sport talk shows,internet articles that have been talking about these things for the last month.
Some of this stuff is common knowledge from the mouths of GM's,but yes they could very well be using misdirection

 

[bone3421]

Boras probably has overpriced him as he was expecting to get a Pujols type deal (which was a very stupid deal btw) and there's just not that many teams that need a 1b for that kind of money. Think about it. Yanks= Tex, Boston= A-Gon, Angels= Pujols, Cubs= rebuilding.

The only teams in the conversation are Washington, Seattle (lol), and maybe Texas. Boras is playing things smart right now. He knows if Texas fails to sign Darvish they'll be looking for a plan B, and expects Texas and Washington to drive the price up. The market will pick up the middle of next week for Fielder.

If there's still one out there willing to do that. People think Texas will, but I guarantee Texas won't go over 6 years if they do get involved. The nationals are the only team who are involved that is capable of throwing stupid money at him, and I wouldn't put anything past them.

so he says the market will pick up and you say nothing has happened...fielder met with texas,reports are saying prince wants to play in texas....sounds like things are happening

he uses the term "stupid money" and you take it has calling the FO stupid....he might be im not sure but it also refers to a huge amount of money/slang.

 

[bone3421]

errors for nl 1b
prince 15(162 games)
pujols 11(147 games)
howard 9(152 games)

those are the top 3
howard--fld% .993--- defensive runs saved above avg.(rdrs) -9
prince-fld% .990 rdrs -1
pujols-fld% .992 rdrs 3

 

[magnumo]

For example, in his 1/14 post, romeo asserts:

1. Boras probably has overpriced Fielder, expecting to get a Pujols-like deal.
2. The Pujols deal was very stupid.
3. Only Washington, Seattle, and maybe Texas are in the mix.
4. The Cubs are not because they're rebuilding.
5. Speculates that Texas will seek a plan B if they don't sign Darvish.
6. Boras thinks Texas and Washington will drive Fielder's price up.
7. The market will pick up the middle of next week.

so when people post about baseball we should give a reference to all the sport talk shows,internet articles that have been talking about these things for the last month.

In my opinion..... yes, they should provide something..... some basis for their assertions or opinions, ESPECIALLY when those assertions or opinions are in opposition to something which has already been posted by respected and reliable posters. In such circumstances, opinions thrown out there with nothing to back them up are essentially worthless.

I didn't ask for a gazillion references, but I asked for SOMETHING. Romeo provided nothing..... zero, zilch, nada..... to back up ANY of his opinions or assertions.

Some of this stuff is common knowledge from the mouths of GM's,but yes they could very well be using misdirection

You're not helping. Specifically, which item is "common knowledge from the mouths of GM's?"

 

[magnumo]

[/B]

so he says the market will pick up and you say nothing has happened...fielder met with texas,reports are saying prince wants to play in texas....sounds like things are happening

he uses the term "stupid money" and you take it has calling the FO stupid....he might be im not sure but it also refers to a huge amount of money/slang.

Actually, according to multiple media outlets, Fielder met with Texas LAST week (on Friday, January 13 to be precise) BEFORE romeo made the post in question (on Sunday, January 15)... so that's hardly news..... nor is it evidence that things have picked up by the middle of THIS WEEK.

If the assertion, and I quote romeo's entire sentence, "The nationals are the only team who are involved that is capable of throwing stupid money at him, and I wouldn't put anything past them" isn't tantamount to calling the Nationals' front office stupid..... I don't know what is. If you interpret that sentence differently, in or out of context, please explain.

 

[bone3421]

Contrary to previous reports, the Miami Marlins are not pursuing Prince Fielder and are not planning to trade infielder Hanley Ramirez, according a tweet from Joe Capozzi, Marlins beat writer for The Palm Beach Post.

Epstein has said all along he is building for the future, not expecting to be a top contender next year, which is why his interest in Fielder was tepid at best. Now, by trading for Rizzo, it seems likely that the Cubs will be committing to Rizzo as their first baseman of the future. In 93 games with Class AAA Tucson last season, the left-handed hitter batted .331 with 26 HRs and 101 RBI. He had a .652 slugging percentage.

Analysis: Prince Fielder lurking on Texas Rangers' agenda

Prince Fielder News & Rumors: Pro Sports Daily

Wire Taps: Washington Nationals, Texas Rangers, Prince Fielder And The Yu Darvish Deadline. - Federal Baseball


would you like me to set-up a twitter account for you also so you can keep up

(i see how what i typed could be taken wrong,so this is to assure you i mean it in jest)

 

[bone3421]

Actually, according to multiple media outlets, Fielder met with Texas LAST week (on Friday, January 13 to be precise) BEFORE romeo made the post in question (on Sunday, January 15)... so that's hardly news..... nor is it evidence that things have picked up by the middle of THIS WEEK.

If the assertion, and I quote romeo's entire sentence, "The nationals are the only team who are involved that is capable of throwing stupid money at him, and I wouldn't put anything past them" isn't tantamount to calling the Nationals' front office stupid..... I don't know what is. If you interpret that sentence differently, in or out of context, please explain.

i did i said he might mean it as "huge amount of money" slang--and saying he wouldnt be surprised if they did....is how i took it maybe he will clarify later

 

[UTVolCountry]

I remember seeing Fielder smash one over the wall and across the street when he was playing here in Nashville. Never seen a HR hit so far.

 

[magnumo]

errors for nl 1b
prince 15(162 games)
pujols 11(147 games)
howard 9(152 games)

those are the top 3
howard--fld% .993--- defensive runs saved above avg.(rdrs) -9
prince-fld% .990 rdrs -1
pujols-fld% .992 rdrs 3

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by cherry-picking those numbers. But without checking them for accuracy, they confirm that Fielder is weak defensively. 15 errors, a fielding percentage of .990, and a -1 rdrs all are below average for a firstbaseman.

By the way, the league average fielding percentage for 1B was .994 in 2011. Furthermore, Fielder's rdrs over his 6+ year major league career is a whopping -48, so his below average 2011 (at -1) was one of his best years.

Personally, I think Range Factor is a good indicator of defensive prowess (when computed over a large enough sample and combined with other defensive metrics). Fielder's RF/9 (putouts plus assists per 9 innings played) for 2011 was 9.14 vs. a league average of 9.33 for first basemen..... clearly below average. Over his entire career, Fielder's RF/9 is 8.99 vs. a league average of 9.31, even farther below average.

For WAR fanatics, Fielder's WAR in 2011 was 5.2 (per Baseball Reference), consisting of 5.9 on the offensive side, reduced by -0.7 on defense. The story at FanGraphs is similar.

In fact, when one looks at a composite of ALL defensive metrics..... at Baseball Reference, FanGraphs, the ones you posted, or anywhere else, AND one combines that with personal observations of Fielder playing defense, the conclusion is inescapable:

Fielder is below average defensively..... and that weak defense detracts from the value produced by his bat.

 

[bone3421]

they are numbers and i know how much you like numbers and links

but they also show that he is better than howard and a little behind pujols right now.Could he get better maybe,do you hear people knock alberts glove? Im not saying he is a great fielder but you can grab any numbers you want to on a player and make it support your opinion

 

[romeo212000]

Any opinion, by definition, is not necessarily wrong. Nor is it necessarily right.

As I have stated previously, the problem is that romeo has been throwing opinions around like confetti, with no facts, data, or sources to back them up.

The nature of most of his opinions and assertions is such that no one will ever know if they are right or wrong. Others already are demonstrably wrong. For example, in his 1/14 post, romeo asserts:

1. Boras probably has overpriced Fielder, expecting to get a Pujols-like deal.
2. The Pujols deal was very stupid.
3. Only Washington, Seattle, and maybe Texas are in the mix.
4. The Cubs are not because they're rebuilding.
5. Speculates that Texas will seek a plan B if they don't sign Darvish.
6. Boras thinks Texas and Washington will drive Fielder's price up.
7. The market will pick up the middle of next week.

In actuality:

1. Maybe, but we'll never know.
2. What if Pujols helps the Angels win the WS in 2012 and 2013? Would that make the deal worth it to them, even if Pujols dies before the contract expires?
3. I've seen several other teams mentioned in the media.....
4. .....including the Cubs.
5. Texas DID sign Darvish, but seem to remain in the mix anyway.
6. We don't know what Boras is thinking.
7. The "middle of next week" has passed..... and nothing has happened.

In his post on 1/15, romeo states, "I guarantee Texas won't go over 6 years if they do get involved" and goes on to indicate that the Nationals' front office is stupid. Numerous media reports indicate that Texas IS involved, and I submit that romeo cannot guarantee anything about what Texas will or won't do.

On 1/16, romeo makes two posts stating that Fielder won't sign as a DH, that he wants to play 1B, and that even the Yankees wouldn't be dumb enough to sign him as a DH (in effect adding a third MLB front office to his "stupid" list). Maybe Fielder WANTS to play 1B (although I've seen nothing in the media indicating that), but the fact remains that Fielder's fielding detracts from his value. Any AL team which can afford to pay for Fielder's bat would be better off with Fielder DHing and a decent fielding first-baseman playing the field. E.g., the Yankees would be better off with Texiera in the field and Fielder at DH.

Finally, today, romeo asserts that Fielder is an average defensive first-baseman..... a statement which is completely false, as refuted by my previous post.

When I post an opinion, I'm in the habit of providing some data, logic, sources, whatever, to back it up. Other regulars on this board do the same. I have asked romeo to provide some basis for his opinions and assertions in this thread, and he has responded with..... absolutely nothing!

In conclusion..... in my opinion, romeo's assertions, with nothing to back them up, add nothing to this discussion. I don't plan to spend any more time reading or discussing his posts.

Zzzzzzz......

 

[romeo212000]

Actually, according to multiple media outlets, Fielder met with Texas LAST week (on Friday, January 13 to be precise) BEFORE romeo made the post in question (on Sunday, January 15)... so that's hardly news..... nor is it evidence that things have picked up by the middle of THIS WEEK.

If the assertion, and I quote romeo's entire sentence, "The nationals are the only team who are involved that is capable of throwing stupid money at him, and I wouldn't put anything past them" isn't tantamount to calling the Nationals' front office stupid..... I don't know what is. If you interpret that sentence differently, in or out of context, please explain.

No genius. Stupid money means a giant bundle of cash.

 

[bone3421]

and looking at the dwar leaders over the last 10 years not really much to hang your hat on when a 1.6::1.4,etc gets you in the top 10

 

[bone3421]

and holy crap how skewed is dwar when big ole slow carlos lee leads the NL

 

[romeo212000]

This is why saber metrics are only as good as the people utilizing them. Talk about cherry picking your stats.

 

[magnumo]

This is why saber metrics are only as good as the people utilizing them. Talk about cherry picking your stats.

I did not cherry pick stats. I said ALL stats, traditional or modern, viewed as a composite or viewed individually, demonstrate that Prince Fielder is below average defensively.

And you continue to post NOTHING to indicate otherwise.

 

[magnumo]

they are numbers and i know how much you like numbers and links

but they also show that he is better than howard and a little behind pujols right now.Could he get better maybe,do you hear people knock alberts glove? Im not saying he is a great fielder but you can grab any numbers you want to on a player and make it support your opinion

The question was NOT whether Fielder is a better or worse on defense than Pujols or Howard.

The question WAS whether Fielder was "average" or "below average" defensively. I submit that the numbers you posted, AND the numbers I posted, and any other defensive stats anyone can find..... all demonstrate conclusively that Fielder is below average defensively.

Do you disagree?