Prince Fielder

[romeo212000]

Okay dude. Sorry I trespassed on YOUR message board. I never said anything inflammatory or directed at you personally and you came on like a uber-douche as soon as I posted anything in opposition to what you posted.

It's a message board. It's intended to be a place where people spitball and offer their opinions. No one expects their opinion to be taken as scripture (except you). Bone spent far more time trying to be reasonable with your dumb ass on my behalf than I would've. I'll withdraw from this conversation since its apparent you're going to continue to be a total tool.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Jesus, I'd hate to be at the bar talking baseball with this guy. Better bring some pie charts and your Bill James autographed copy of the Baseball Abstract.

 

[romeo212000]

Jesus, I'd hate to be at the bar talking baseball with this guy. Better bring some pie charts and your Bill James autographed copy of the Baseball Abstract.

I thought I could have the same kind of conversations we have on our boards, but apparently not.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

...the peer reviewed thread....

 

[Illinest]

What the hell is going on here? Magnumo is the only one making a competent statistical case regarding fielders' defense. Defense stats dont mean an awful lot on a per season basis but they start to have some relevance when you have multiple years' worth to evaluate. Fielders' poor defense is a reality that is backed up by observations from all of us pirate fans. Can i remind you that the only fans that sees the brewers more than us are the brewers fans.
I think i know whats going on here - you guys are hoping youll be the team to pick him up and trying to find reasons to discount negative evaluations of his defense. Ive been in that place myself - every time the bucs fo tries to pass off a guy like lyle overbay as a significant addition to the team. You dont have to listen but you should know that therell come a day when you start to appreciate that hes a piece of crap in the field. Pujols is another player we see a lot of btw and theyre not comparable defensively. Not even close. Pujols is a fine defender who can still play 3b in an emergency. Fielder sucks.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Romeo thinks magnumo is a "total tool"

Source
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/pittsburgh-pirates/60431-prince-fielder-3.html#post1581172

 

[romeo212000]

Romeo thinks magnumo is a "total tool"

Source
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/pittsburgh-pirates/60431-prince-fielder-3.html#post1581172

He's at least acting like one. One should go back and read everything before that post.

 

[guitarmy21b]

What the hell is going on here? Magnumo is the only one making a competent statistical case regarding fielders' defense. Defense stats dont mean an awful lot on a per season basis but they start to have some relevance when you have multiple years' worth to evaluate. Fielders' poor defense is a reality that is backed up by observations from all of us pirate fans. Can i remind you that the only fans that sees the brewers more than us are the brewers fans.
I think i know whats going on here - you guys are hoping youll be the team to pick him up and trying to find reasons to discount negative evaluations of his defense. Ive been in that place myself - every time the bucs fo tries to pass off a guy like lyle overbay as a significant addition to the team. You dont have to listen but you should know that therell come a day when you start to appreciate that hes a piece of crap in the field. Pujols is another player we see a lot of btw and theyre not comparable defensively. Not even close. Pujols is a fine defender who can still play 3b in an emergency. Fielder sucks.

I'm more of the opinion that I don't really care if he's bad at defense. I will say that I think his defense or lack thereof is exaggerated by most(yes magnumo that is an OPINION). Honestly though, I watched all but maybe 20 or 30 Rangers games this last season and people rarely hit it to 1B against us anyway. We had Young, Moreland, and Napoli platooning for a combined 8 errors and none of them are very good defensively. If Prince can catch the ball with his foot on the bag, or snag the occasional grounder most of the time then that's all we really care about.

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Wow, I was the guy that started the topic on Prince. All I wanted, was some posters thoughts on whether other teams were as interested in signing Fielder, as many Baseball talking heads thought teams might be?

Second, whether the supposed lack of interest (I Thought...) could mean that Prince & or Boras over estimated his value?

I did not mean for the topic to escalate into this.

Romeo, Mags, for the short time I have been a member of this board, has shown himself to me to be a good guy.

As, I am sure, you & your friends are on the Texas board.

I think it would be a good idea for all of us to try & maintain a Welcoming Atmosphere on the boards & try to remain friendly with one another, even in a heated debate.

I don't like any discussions to turn personal or nasty.

Especially, in threads that I start. LOL!

Burgh.

 

[romeo212000]

Wow, I was the guy that started the topic on Prince. All I wanted, was some posters thoughts on whether other teams were as interested in signing Fielder, as many Baseball talking heads thought teams might be?

Second, whether the supposed lack of interest (I Thought...) could mean that Prince & or Boras over estimated his value?

I did not mean for the topic to escalate into this.

Romeo, Mags, for the short time I have been a member of this board, has shown himself to me to be a good guy.

As, I am sure, you & your friends are on the Texas board.

I think it would be a good idea for all of us to try & maintain a Welcoming Atmosphere on the boards & try to remain friendly with one another, even in a heated debate.

I don't like any discussions to turn personal or nasty.

Especially, in threads that I start. LOL!

Burgh.

Fair enough. I was just trying to legitimately contribute to your thread and felt attacked by mags. It wasn't just me as bone made some posts on my behalf too. However, I'm willing to move on as I was only hoping we might be able to mingle with baseball fans of other teams as we did on the old board. Remember everyone, this is a message board and people will spitball in here. No need to always get the saber tricks committee involved

 

[bone3421]

man this kinda took off while i was away......mags i think fielder is right around avg. defensively and i hope the rangers grab him....and i feel like numbers can be skewed especially defense.....if one player can get to a ball one player cant he could make an error that will be negative to him while the player that cant get there wont be negatively affected. also 1b is not really a position that needs to be a defensive strenght

 

[magnumo]

To Pirate Board Regulars

This board has been remarkably free of non-value-adding people who post inane nonsense without basis and who are impervious to logic. But alas, into every life (and apparently every message board) a little rain must fall.

I sincerely apologize for my contribution to prolonging the string of non-value-adding posts in this thread. I should have recognized the futility of my effort sooner.

 

[thecrow124]

man this kinda took off while i was away......mags i think fielder is right around avg. defensively and i hope the rangers grab him....and i feel like numbers can be skewed especially defense.....if one player can get to a ball one player cant he could make an error that will be negative to him while the player that cant get there wont be negatively affected. also 1b is not really a position that needs to be a defensive strenght

Start with the second part, I could care less if Texas grabs him, just wanted to get that out of the way.

Now for the first part, I am certain that I have seen Fielder play more than anyone in this discussion, I can say that with at least 95% certainty, and he is a very bad defender. It isn't so much the balls that are hit his way, where is is just about average as long as he doesn't have to move, but the balls that are thrown to him. If a ball is coming in below his knees, he seems to have trouble with that in particular. So when you factor in that a ball hit to his left is going to the outfield and a low thrown ball has a good shot at getting past him, he is below average.

Even with his bad defense, I go back to what I said very early in the off-season, the Pirates should have thrown a 10 year offer at him for every penny we had in the budget. Why you ask, because he can give us the one thing we do not have, offense. I could live with the hole at first that he would become in 5 or 6 years, but this Pirates franchise can not continue to attempt to survive with no offensive production, no matter if all 4 of our high cieling draftees pan out as aces and all play at the same time, with no offense we will not win. :ss:

 

[bone3421]

im not saying he is a great fielder but i have only seen him here or there...i was just saying i dont trust the numbers just because some scorekeeper wrote it down.....like one of my post said last year prince had 15 errors and pujols had 11 because a scorekeeper made a judgement call.I understand you have seen him more but everytime i get to watch the brewers he didnt look as bad as people say so that is all i can go by.....good luck to ya'll hope all the young talent works out and you make some noise this year

 

[Darkstone42]

Fielder has no range, so not only does he commit a lot more errors than he should, he also doesn't even get to enough balls to attempt to make a play on them, so defensively he's a liability.

However, you can hide that liability better at first base than any other position, which allows him to make up for his defensive ineptness and then some by just being a really good power hitter.

Overall, though, I don't think he's a good risk to take on a super-long contract. His body type doesn't project well after he turns 30, and his defense is going to get so bad that even if he somehow maintains some pace close to his current one (which I don't suspect he will), it still won't compensate significantly for his defense, and he'll be only useful as a DH.

The Pirates would need to offer him something like 10 years, but I would hope they'd be able to find a replacement for him, say, for example, in the draft or something, allowing them to trade him (preferably to the AL) for prospects before his decline becomes clear. Of course, it is unlikely they would be able to do that, and they would either have to deal him and open up a new black hole at 1B or hold onto him and pay him $20 million for $5 million or less of production.

 

[sychmd]

what is the purpose of this board?

if it is to be accurate analysis of all the facts with projective abilities of 100% accuracy, and to be right on all accounts, then
1. it's impossible
2. to even come close, this would be our profession as either reporters, GM's, or clairvoyants
3. we would have to be so wrapped up in it that iy is our profession and so why are we on this board talking to a bunch of amateurs
4. we have expectations of other posters that are so unrealistic that we all, hopefully, have lives outside the pirates that are more important than bickering about the inane details of this board
5. if you want facts, go to the statistics books, websites, or tweet with the insiders

the purpose of this board seems to me to be
1. a place to get and give information from passionate fans, very emotionally connected to the pirates, with eternal hope for the team
2. i know none of you are experts, or you would be getting paid by baseball to do more than share your insights with me.
3. some of you have played and do know a lot about the game, but.....
4. people get to express their opinions all the time here, as this is not a place for just facts. we can find the facts anywhere.
5. this whole board is an op-ed section. any facts are presented to start discussion.
6. why the need to prove anyone wrong, it is all opinion
7. this is a place to vent about pirate mishaps, especially the front office
8. it is a place to celebrate with other pirate fans since many of us dont have those around us as we live away from the area

everyone here seems to be an adult and knows how to weigh what they read and guage the probability of it being fact, opinion, or some blend of the 2. as long as know one is using this to gamble, heaven help them, opinion is all this board offers. whether overt opinion, or opinion about some set of facts, it is all opinion.
my profession is one where i am called to predict the future for people. i use some facts to help with probability, but in the end, no matter how educated an epert opinion i give them, it is still an opinion because all the facts cant be gathered and all the forces cant be quantified.

one last fact. you dont need facts to know things. there has never been a study about whether the sun comes up everyday, but some things are so blatant that we dont need a study to prove them.

happy sunday morning to all and my prayer is that we waste less time proving people wrong and actually share more insights based on the special experiences and personalities that the contributors to this board bring.

 

[element1286]

Fielder has no range, so not only does he commit a lot more errors than he should, he also doesn't even get to enough balls to attempt to make a play on them, so defensively he's a liability.

However, you can hide that liability better at first base than any other position, which allows him to make up for his defensive ineptness and then some by just being a really good power hitter.

This.

 

[element1286]

I think i know whats going on here - you guys are hoping youll be the team to pick him up and trying to find reasons to discount negative evaluations of his defense. Ive been in that place myself

And this, I've been there as well. Although it has usually been a justification for a guy just traded away "who wasn't that good anyway."

 

[romeo212000]

what is the purpose of this board?

if it is to be accurate analysis of all the facts with projective abilities of 100% accuracy, and to be right on all accounts, then
1. it's impossible
2. to even come close, this would be our profession as either reporters, GM's, or clairvoyants
3. we would have to be so wrapped up in it that iy is our profession and so why are we on this board talking to a bunch of amateurs
4. we have expectations of other posters that are so unrealistic that we all, hopefully, have lives outside the pirates that are more important than bickering about the inane details of this board
5. if you want facts, go to the statistics books, websites, or tweet with the insiders

the purpose of this board seems to me to be
1. a place to get and give information from passionate fans, very emotionally connected to the pirates, with eternal hope for the team
2. i know none of you are experts, or you would be getting paid by baseball to do more than share your insights with me.
3. some of you have played and do know a lot about the game, but.....
4. people get to express their opinions all the time here, as this is not a place for just facts. we can find the facts anywhere.
5. this whole board is an op-ed section. any facts are presented to start discussion.
6. why the need to prove anyone wrong, it is all opinion
7. this is a place to vent about pirate mishaps, especially the front office
8. it is a place to celebrate with other pirate fans since many of us dont have those around us as we live away from the area

everyone here seems to be an adult and knows how to weigh what they read and guage the probability of it being fact, opinion, or some blend of the 2. as long as know one is using this to gamble, heaven help them, opinion is all this board offers. whether overt opinion, or opinion about some set of facts, it is all opinion.
my profession is one where i am called to predict the future for people. i use some facts to help with probability, but in the end, no matter how educated an epert opinion i give them, it is still an opinion because all the facts cant be gathered and all the forces cant be quantified.

one last fact. you dont need facts to know things. there has never been a study about whether the sun comes up everyday, but some things are so blatant that we dont need a study to prove them.

happy sunday morning to all and my prayer is that we waste less time proving people wrong and actually share more insights based on the special experiences and personalities that the contributors to this board bring.

This +1,000

This is a message board where people discuss their gut feelings and opinions. Get the hell over it if you have a problem with that.

No need to take a backhanded dig at me in your "apology post" magnumo. I don't think I was posting absurdities. I posted an opinion that differed from yours. If you feel the numbers back you up more on your opinion that's fine.
But that's no call for acting so harshly and calling me out when A) you misinterpreted some of them, and B) I never suggested my statements were any more than my opinion.