Game Thread: preseason #3

[Cincyfan78]

To be fair, most of the arm strength talk comes from his college scouting reports and what was said about him during the pre-draft process. None of us are professional scouts so really what more is there to go off of? His arm seems fine to me. He's played about 5 quarters of professional football so not enough sample size to really say whether it's an issue or not.

I don't think anybody is arguing any of your other points. The big game pedigree, fiery personality and leadership have all been flaunted by everyone. It certainly showed on the field against the Bears. He looked poised, confident and got through his progesssions quickly. He made two accurate and timely throws that I've yet to see Andy make in 4 years as a starter. Color me intrigued. I wanna see more.

Let's be real here though, it was one game. A preseason game at that. Let's see how he handles inside pressure, picking up exotic blitzes, and throwing into tighter windows. The Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL.

For the record, I'm all for letting AJ get a shot. I think he could be better than Dalton. Which honestly isn't saying a lot. Most everyone on this board is over the whole Dalton thing. Hell, id rather they start Tebow than watch anymore of the Baige Waterpistol.

Undisputed fact: Andy Dalton will be the starter come hell or high water. Not changing. No matter how good AJ looks or how much we debate it. The only hope is that Hue runs QB sneaks all game until someone like JJ Watt rips Dalton in half.

Seriously... 4 QB sneaks in a preseason game? Risking injury to your starting QB? Hue Jackson is a blowhard.

Your undisputed fact is exactly why I just don't get all bent out of shape anymore.

It is, exactly, what it is.

 

[cincygrad]

AJ is a born leader, winner and all-around locker room favorite. If not for a fluke play in his senior year, he would have went out a winner. Yet, he made it to the 5th round...... I'm not a scout, but the scouts didn't like him..... And I'm sure it must have been a legit concern for the guy to last until the 5th round.

And don't give me any Tom Brady bullcrap...... Lloyd Carr fucked up Tom Brady. The entire Michigan coaching staff was concerned that they needed to play Drew Henson or he would play full time with the Yankees. Brady lasted until the late rounds because his own college coach was trying to bench him (and he looked ridiculous trying to do anything athletic at the combine).

 

[Cincyfan78]

AJ is a born leader, winner and all-around locker room favorite. If not for a fluke play in his senior year, he would have went out a winner. Yet, he made it to the 5th round...... I'm not a scout, but the scouts didn't like him..... And I'm sure it must have been a legit concern for the guy to last until the 5th round.

And don't give me any Tom Brady bullcrap...... Lloyd Carr fucked up Tom Brady. The entire Michigan coaching staff was concerned that they needed to play Drew Henson or he would play full time with the Yankees. Brady lasted until the late rounds because his own college coach was trying to bench him (and he looked ridiculous trying to do anything athletic at the combine).

There was a really good article listing the QB's that were drafted late, and outside of the rare exception (Brady, or Romo) you're more likely to end up with a bum. I couldn't find the exact article, but here is a similar one:

Excited about that late-round QB your team drafted? Don't be - CBSSports.com

 

[Cincyfan78]

and another one...

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | NFL Draft: Round-by-Round QB Study

hell, you're better off draftin an UFA on this chart compared to a 5, 6, or 7th....

 

[4down20]

AJ is a born leader, winner and all-around locker room favorite. If not for a fluke play in his senior year, he would have went out a winner. Yet, he made it to the 5th round...... I'm not a scout, but the scouts didn't like him..... And I'm sure it must have been a legit concern for the guy to last until the 5th round.

And don't give me any Tom Brady bullcrap...... Lloyd Carr fucked up Tom Brady. The entire Michigan coaching staff was concerned that they needed to play Drew Henson or he would play full time with the Yankees. Brady lasted until the late rounds because his own college coach was trying to bench him (and he looked ridiculous trying to do anything athletic at the combine).

He did bad in the interviews and was over-confident hurt him a little.

He makes good decisions, he will get rid of the ball fast. But sometimes when he is pressured and needs to make a play he can make some dumb mistakes trying to force the ball. That is something he will likely improve on. He rarely threw interceptions but the few times he did, that was the cause and some of them were in big games.

He only had 4 losses I think at Alabama, but like the Texas A&M game we lost in 2012 he threw 2 interceptions(the only 2 of the regular season). Then in the Oklahoma game we lost in 2013(his last game), he made lots of bad decisions under pressure. That being his last game before going pro, probably didn't help him.

A big knock on him was the quality of players he played with, because there was NFL talent around him. Almost the entire Alabama team when he played plays in the NFL. But he played against that same kind of talent regularly. AJ never got credit for success at Alabama. Instead, he was always labeled a game manager(as if this is bad, wish Alabama had one last year).

Which is the biggest reason I have interest in seeing him playing in the NFL. I always felt he wasn't as bad as people tried to claim for him coming out of college, but me being an Alabama fan it's not exactly an unbiased opinion by default.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

AJ is a born leader, winner and all-around locker room favorite. If not for a fluke play in his senior year, he would have went out a winner. Yet, he made it to the 5th round...... I'm not a scout, but the scouts didn't like him..... And I'm sure it must have been a legit concern for the guy to last until the 5th round.

And don't give me any Tom Brady bullcrap...... Lloyd Carr fucked up Tom Brady. The entire Michigan coaching staff was concerned that they needed to play Drew Henson or he would play full time with the Yankees. Brady lasted until the late rounds because his own college coach was trying to bench him (and he looked ridiculous trying to do anything athletic at the combine).

Couldn't agree more. The whole Brady thing gets so overplayed it's absurd. He was just as good in college as he is now. The Drew Henson drama screwed him big time. Besides, look at the elite starting QBs currently in the NFL. Brady and Romo are the only two drafted past the 2nd round.

If you want a franchise QB, you get him in the 1st round. It's the most scrutized position in pro sports. The one position that will make or break your franchise. This isn't the 1980's NFL anymore. You have to have a QB to win big. The good ones don't get out of the top 12 picks. Much less last 5, 6, 7 rounds. Guys like Romo or even a Kurt Warner were overlooked because they played at small schools. In a totally different era of scouting.

 

[DanBengalfan]

if you look at the 2 qb, Andy Dalton isn't better because he was drafted in the second round. the QB selection was deeper in AJ's draft. if they had both graduated the same year, then they would have been drafted around the same time. People keep saying Dalton is better because he was drafted in the second round, but they refuse to look at the details.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

if you look at the 2 qb, Andy Dalton isn't better because he was drafted in the second round. the QB selection was deeper in AJ's draft. if they had both graduated the same year, then they would have been drafted around the same time. People keep saying Dalton is better because he was drafted in the second round, but they refuse to look at the details.

Oh I absolutely agree. The 2011 QB draft was abysmal. Thus, mediocre to terrible QBs were overdrafted. Dalton included. 2014 was a much better class for the position. McCarron may very well be better than Dalton. Doesn't mean he is the next Tom Brady. That's all I'm saying.

 

[cincygrad]

if you look at the 2 qb, Andy Dalton isn't better because he was drafted in the second round. the QB selection was deeper in AJ's draft. if they had both graduated the same year, then they would have been drafted around the same time. People keep saying Dalton is better because he was drafted in the second round, but they refuse to look at the details.

Bullshit. Here are their profiles from their draft years:

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Andrew Dalton

AJ McCarron Draft Profile – NFL.com

It's easy to say now that 2011 was a terrible year for quarterbacks, but three guys were taken in the top 10. Dalton was like the 5th qb selected that year and Kaep was taken right after him. Scouts were fairly high on many of the quarterbacks that year.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Jesus Christ, I hate Andy Dalton but after 1 game of play AJ is better than a guy who has led us to the playoffs 4 straight years? Get the fuck out of here people. Holy Fuck we will grasp at any straw at QB now days.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Jesus Christ, I hate Andy Dalton but after 1 game of play AJ is better than a guy who has led us to the playoffs 4 straight years? Get the fuck out of here people. Holy Fuck we will grasp at any straw at QB now days.

This.

This.

All. of. it.

Again, the pre-season is filled...FILLED...with guys who do well, and never do a damned thing in the NFL. AJ has a lot of intangibles that you don't see on a stat sheet. There's no debating that. But until he can show what he can do in real, live, actual games that mean something, it doesn't amount for shit.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Andy Dalton without AJ Green would be selling insurance right now.

that's a fact.

He won't be here in 3 years

that's a fact.

we won't win a superbowl with Andy Dalton.

that's a fact.

all indisputable facts.

If AJ McCarron goes out and gets injured or fails, it cost a 5th round pick. no big deal. Bengals can draft a QB in the first round in the next 2 seasons with a clear conscience and still keep him around as a backup.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Andy Dalton without AJ Green would be selling insurance right now.

that's a fact.

He won't be here in 3 years

that's a fact.

we won't win a superbowl with Andy Dalton.

that's a fact.

all indisputable facts.

If AJ McCarron goes out and gets injured or fails, it cost a 5th round pick. no big deal. Bengals can draft a QB in the first round in the next 2 seasons with a clear conscience and still keep him around as a backup.

Andy Dalton didn't have much of an AJ last year, or a #2 WR, or a true TE, or a real RB until week 9 when Hill finally started getting real carries...

Come on. No one here is stating that Andy is all-world, but this is getting stupid.

 

[DanBengalfan]

continuously making excuses for Andy Dalton is stupid.

insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

 

[cincygrad]

continuously making excuses for Andy Dalton is stupid.

insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

 

[Cincyfan78]

continuously making excuses for Andy Dalton is stupid.

insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

I'm not making excuses, those are facts.

Fact. AJ Green was not healthy all year last year

Fact. AJ Green missed games.

Fact. The offense had no TE's

Fact. They were missing their #2 WR from the year before who helped in the redzone, and had 10 TD's.

Those facts were in direct response to your AJ saves Andy. There are times, yes he does. All QB's, at times, throw up a bomb and hope their play-maker goes and gets it. Rodgers does it, Manning does it, Brady did with when he had actual play-makers. They all do that.

The fact that people simply want to take a playoff team and throw a QB who hasn't played a meaningful snap in nearly 2 years is silly.

Dalton has a lot of short-comings. No one debates this, but he's a proven QB in terms of guiding this team to 4 straight playoffs. Despite a lot of things that happened last year on offense, this team still won games and still made the playoffs. No team in the right mind is simply going to just chuck that QB aside for a kid who had 1 good pre-season game.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I'm not making excuses, those are facts.

Fact. AJ Green was not healthy all year last year

Fact. AJ Green missed games.

Fact. The offense had no TE's

Fact. They were missing their #2 WR from the year before who helped in the redzone, and had 10 TD's.

Those facts were in direct response to your AJ saves Andy. There are times, yes he does. All QB's, at times, throw up a bomb and hope their play-maker goes and gets it. Rodgers does it, Manning does it, Brady did with when he had actual play-makers. They all do that.

The fact that people simply want to take a playoff team and throw a QB who hasn't played a meaningful snap in nearly 2 years is silly.

Dalton has a lot of short-comings. No one debates this, but he's a proven QB in terms of guiding this team to 4 straight playoffs. Despite a lot of things that happened last year on offense, this team still won games and still made the playoffs. No team in the right mind is simply going to just chuck that QB aside for a kid who had 1 good pre-season game.

oh, he should definitely stay around one more year.
but he is over paid and for that reason needs to go, especially if he can not improve his game this year. (which will be blamed on McCarron)

fact of the matter is, Dalton can not handle big games and the big stage, McCarron can. the ceiling is higher with McCarron. we've reached the ceiling with Dalton. after this year, it's time to move on and get whatever value or save whatever cash we can. it's too late to pull out now, this bee is prego.

 

[DanBengalfan]

oh, he should definitely stay around one more year.
but he is over paid and for that reason needs to go, especially if he can not improve his game this year. (which will be blamed on McCarron)

fact of the matter is, Dalton can not handle big games and the big stage, McCarron can. the ceiling is higher with McCarron. we've reached the ceiling with Dalton. after this year, it's time to move on and get whatever value or save whatever cash we can. it's too late to pull out now, this bee is prego.

also, this is not based on "one preseason game" both players existed before the NFL.

 

[Cincyfan78]

oh, he should definitely stay around one more year.
but he is over paid and for that reason needs to go, especially if he can not improve his game this year. (which will be blamed on McCarron)

fact of the matter is, Dalton can not handle big games and the big stage, McCarron can. the ceiling is higher with McCarron. we've reached the ceiling with Dalton. after this year, it's time to move on and get whatever value or save whatever cash we can. it's too late to pull out now, this bee is prego.

I don't disagree on Dalton. As for McCarron handling the big stage...he could in college. There were lots of guys who could in college and couldn't in the NFL. We won't know the answer to that until he gets time at QB in real games. I'm not saying that he can't do well, but before I say he's better than QB XYZ, I want to see him play in real games that matter. It's not an unreasonable request.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I don't disagree on Dalton. As for McCarron handling the big stage...he could in college. There were lots of guys who could in college and couldn't in the NFL. We won't know the answer to that until he gets time at QB in real games. I'm not saying that he can't do well, but before I say he's better than QB XYZ, I want to see him play in real games that matter. It's not an unreasonable request.

yep. that won't happen unless Dalton farts so hard his butt blows up. Hard to bench a QB that's been there for 4 years. he could be throwing Gus Ferrotte style ducks with his left hand he'd still get the nod the following week.