Possible Lockout for the NFL during the 2021 season?

[ATL96Steeler]

That 8-10 players making $8 plus a year is exactly what I am talking about. THat is the leagues middle class. You average NFL starter.

Most every team only has a 2-3 stars. That's the leagues upper class. That group is being paid more than they were a decade ago....but the rise is gigantic.

And 10 years ago, rosters are exactly like they are now. Teams have 30-35 players playing under rookie deals (the last 4 draft classes).

It is those average vet starters who are now worth $4-$10m whereas 10 years ago that group was lucky to be earning anything close to $2M. That is where this cba shifted the dollars to....and rightfully so.

Okay, we're defining the vet middle class differently.

I'm using a roster that I know well, but 2 or 3 yrs ago the Steelers had a FS, Mike Mitchell (a mid level FA signing) making $5 mil per...Arthur Moats, reserve LB (making $3+ mil per)...these are the guys I'm defining as the middle class of the NFL. Every team used to have 5 to 6 such players.

Right now on PIT...Tyson Alualu $2.1, Vance McDonald $5.7, Vince Williams $3.8, Mark Barron, $3.8......most of the rest make under $2mil...McD is making good money and VWill for a starter is making chump change...these guys use to be higher up on the totem pole.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Like every Company everywhere. Owners start it up, take the risk and reap the rewards. If the players don't like their salaries or their jobs they can look elsewhere for work just like the rest of us. I think what they are paid is more than fair already and I have no sympathy for them.

At the same time I applaud any of them that feels it's not a good deal for them and wants to leave for another field. I guess sooner or later that may happen, or maybe not...So I guess it is a pretty damn good deal for them

Lol...what risk is there starting up an NFL team? It's a good ole boy club...if you have the cash and get enough guys to like you, you're in.

If you think the pay is fair, even if I disagree, I can accept that as your opinion. But if you think this is about sympathy, you're mistaken. I don't think any one should feel sorry for them...but because their union is so pitiful, they don't get to enjoy the same guaranteed income that other sport league players do.

And until they are willing to lose some money (i.e. miss some game checks) it will always be that way.

 

[jarntt]

Lol...what risk is there starting up an NFL team? It's a good ole boy club...if you have the cash and get enough guys to like you, you're in.

If you think the pay is fair, even if I disagree, I can accept that as your opinion. But if you think this is about sympathy, you're mistaken. I don't think any one should feel sorry for them...but because their union is so pitiful, they don't get to enjoy the same guaranteed income that other sport league players do.

And until they are willing to lose some money (i.e. miss some game checks) it will always be that way.

What risk? It costs billions. Billions...

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What risk? It costs billions. Billions...

That much I know, but I ask again, what risks?

You have guaranteed money coming from TV that covers most of your operating cost. If you have a bad team and lower gate revenue as a result, chances are you won't have a lot of high priced players either.

It's not easy to build a consistent winning organization (I think some of it pure luck). But even with a losing team you will make a profit year over year.

 

[jarntt]

That is the risk. A billion dollars may be chump change in your neck of the woods, but it is quite an investment for most people, including uber rich people. There is no guarantee franchise values go up forever and over the last couple of years some chinks have been showing in the armor with regards to ratings and the such. Not to mention the possibility of a lockout and what that does to an owner when he has already paid out huge signing bonuses and perhaps other infrastructure and operational expenses that won't be offset by revenues

 

[Across The Field]

Like every Company everywhere. Owners start it up, take the risk and reap the rewards. If the players don't like their salaries or their jobs they can look elsewhere for work just like the rest of us. I think what they are paid is more than fair already and I have no sympathy for them.

At the same time I applaud any of them that feels it's not a good deal for them and wants to leave for another field. I guess sooner or later that may happen, or maybe not...So I guess it is a pretty damn good deal for them

Bingo

 

[Judge Fudge]

Yeah....I don't think we want the NHL DoPS in the NFL, haha

I agree. I think the right thing to do is the 11 person committee

 

[dtgold88]

Because Oprah and Will Ferrell don’t constantly complain that they are underpaid or being fucked over

Maybe because they are not underpaid nor being fucked over?

 

[jarntt]

Maybe because they are not underpaid nor being fucked over?

Or they realize how good they have it and how ridiculous they would look in the Public's eye if they complained

 

[dtgold88]

Or they realize how good they have it and how ridiculous they would look in the Public's eye if they complained

well said...and FTR, I do agree with you the players don't have it so bad and if they don't like it can go get another job.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

That is the risk. A billion dollars may be chump change in your neck of the woods, but it is quite an investment for most people, including uber rich people. There is no guarantee franchise values go up forever and over the last couple of years some chinks have been showing in the armor with regards to ratings and the such. Not to mention the possibility of a lockout and what that does to an owner when he has already paid out huge signing bonuses and perhaps other infrastructure and operational expenses that won't be offset by revenues

I'm 100% with you on the value of a billion $, but if you are seriously considering buying an NFL franchise, you're not spending your last to buy the team.

I also agree that the value of NFL franchises are not guaranteed to go up...but I don't think we've seen one sell for less than it was purchased for...even the Bills owner made money when he sold it...lots of it.

The real issue is having the money to start with....if you do and the other 31 owner think you're a decent guy etc.

For years...there was a perception that Mike Brown (Bengals owner) was happy with his TV money and putting 45-50,000 people in a 60,000 seat stadium...kept his operating overhead low, team payroll low and was quite content pocketing his profits. Now whether that's true or not, IDK, but he wasn't losing money.

Obviously there are some risks as with any business venture, but relative to other ventures one could invest a billion+ dollars into, an NFL team is one of the safer investments.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

well said...and FTR, I do agree with you the players don't have it so bad and if they don't like it can go get another job.

Compared to us...they have it damn good...compared to other pro team sport leagues (a more true comparison), they do pretty well, but NBA, NHL and MLB players sign a contract they know they will get that money. NFL players know they will get most of it... if they stay healthy and performance doesn't slip too much.

 

[ducky]

Okay, we're defining the vet middle class differently.

I'm using a roster that I know well, but 2 or 3 yrs ago the Steelers had a FS, Mike Mitchell (a mid level FA signing) making $5 mil per...Arthur Moats, reserve LB (making $3+ mil per)...these are the guys I'm defining as the middle class of the NFL. Every team used to have 5 to 6 such players.

Right now on PIT...Tyson Alualu $2.1, Vance McDonald $5.7, Vince Williams $3.8, Mark Barron, $3.8......most of the rest make under $2mil...McD is making good money and VWill for a starter is making chump change...these guys use to be higher up on the totem pole.

You have to look closer into those deals though too. The Steelers are ridiculously backloaded right now because of the Brown trade completely fucking their cap situation. All those guys are making way above that in AAV.

I was trying to find the Steelers cap hits from the 2008 year to show you what I was talking about. But can't find a good cap breakdown from the year. But middle range players back then weren't making crap compared to what those same type of talents get paid these days. All the guys you listed above would have been barely north of $1M AAV had they signed in 2008 under that old CBA.

But what I mean really is that the cap always has been broken down like this:
30-38 rookie contracts = In 2008 or in 2019, these guys all totaled out to about $30-$40 million of your cap. (Depends a little on whether or not you are picking constantly in top 10....now or then.)

When the cap was $110 M, that left $80M for vet contracts.
Today when the cap is $185M, that leaves $145M for vet contracts.

The pieces of the pie for those 2nd contract players has almost doubled. That is GOOD for your top paid vets....but it also has greatly effected your middle range stop gap average starter. Those are actually the guys that probably have benefited the most percentage wise.

 

[dtgold88]

Compared to us...they have it damn good...compared to other pro team sport leagues (a more true comparison), they do pretty well, but NBA, NHL and MLB players sign a contract they know they will get that money. NFL players know they will get most of it... if they stay healthy and performance doesn't slip too much.

Good points, but NFL players don't have to go to the minors like most MLB and many NHL players. Also 53 of them as opposed to 15 on an NBA roster.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

This is why he's running....

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Good points, but NFL players don't have to go to the minors like most MLB and many NHL players. Also 53 of them as opposed to 15 on an NBA roster.

Different narrative but I agree.

At the end of the day, it boils down to who is representing you and the NFLPA clearly ranks the lowest among the 4 major team sports leagues.

 

[PDay8810]

I'd take all but 3 QBs on that list over Dak. I think $24m is fair. You mention how 50% of his games started, he had a passer rating above 100. What's it tell you that he's had a passer rating under 100 in 2 of his 3 seasons, and his career passer rating is under 100? When he's good, he's good. When he's bad, he's awful.

I'd take Dak over 5 on that list, and I think 25M per is where he should be but that's not going to happen in today's QB market. We'll see soon enough cause I think Dallas does a new deal b4 the season starts

 

[NWPATSFAN]

eh, not sure I agree with some of the sentiments in this thread. Granted, I will give you the fact that the NFLPA is one of the weakest in all of sports and that may, once again, lead to them not striking.

However, it must be grinding a lot of the players that MLB players get fully guaranteed contracts upwards of $300 mill + and NBA stars are now making $40 mill per.

To be fair, in the NFL, the players have to share the 'pie' more than MLB and NBA because rosters are larger, but the players may feel the fact that their league generates so much more revenue than the other 2, that they are getting screwed.

162>80>16Not sure anyone should be complaining.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Will Ferrell also gave up a lucrative career in the NBA to become an actor.....He could handle the rock pretty good in Semi-Pro.......Word was he was a lottery pick.......

Woody would take Ferrell's lunch money

 

[NFL-Solomon]

...

In his first three years in the NFL, Dak Prescott has 24 games with a passer rating above 100. That's 50% of all games started.
…

He also has 10 games in 3 years where he is below 70 PR, most in the 50's or low 60's.

That's over 20% of all his games, he sucks in.

Can you say erratic?

Just sayin'