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[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

10th best staff in the NL. Below average.

End/your participation here.

lol, savage beatdown.

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

Rank the top 5 NL starting rotations, and the top 15 NL starters with an emphasis on what you expect from them in 2011:

Teams:
1. PHI
2. SF
3. MIL
4. LA
5. STL

Starters:
1. Halladay
2. Lincecum
3. Wainwright
4. Greinke
5. Johnson
6. Ubaldo
7. Lee
8. Kershaw
9. Cain
10. Hamels
11. Gallardo
12. Billingsley
13. Santana
14. Latos
15. Carpenter

Here's mine, I guess. 10-15 is hard to choose from right now.

 

[filosofy29]

Rank the top 5 NL starting rotations, and the top 15 NL starters with an emphasis on what you expect from them in 2011:

Teams:
1. Phillies (for next year and next year only.....and still only slightly ahead)
2. Giants
3. Cardinals
4. Brewers
5. Dodgers

Starters:
1. Halladay
2. Lincecum
3. Wainwright
4. Greinke
5. Jimenez
6. J. Johnson
7. Kershaw
8. Lee
9. Latos
10. Cain
11. Gallardo
12. Oswalt
13. Hudson
14. Santana
15. Carpenter

imhumbleo

 

[tzill]

imhumbleo

I think the Braves are going to be right in that 3-6 mix. The dropoff after the third starter in MIL is pretty big; I'm not a Narveson fan.

 

[filosofy29]

I think the Braves are going to be right in that 3-6 mix. The dropoff after the third starter in MIL is pretty big; I'm not a Narveson fan.

I'd usually agree if all of the Braves starters can have the same season as last year. I just think that Tim Hudson had an unbelievable year last year that he won't (in my opinion) be able to sustain next year. Also, Lowe looked very pedestrian all of last season until the last month and a half or so. Huddy will be 36 next season and Lowe 38, then even though his numbers ended up pretty damn good, Tommy Hanson didn't progress the way I thought he would after the year before. Then you have Jair Jurrjens who only God knows happened to. He was a very good pitcher the year before. They have the potential to be better than both the Dodgers and the Brewers, but I don't think they can jump the Cards. Then again though, I didn't think that the Giants would win the World Series last year either at the start of the season .....

 

[sfsportsfan]

The phils starters HAVE proven that they're better -- look at their career numbers in the regular season. Hamels will probably be better than he was last year, and Oswalt worse. Their weak link is #5 (Blanton?). MadBum would be a #4 on thier staff and Chez a #5. They're elite.

I have the Brewers as #6. They have three solid starters and a mess at the back end of the rotation (Narveson and Wolf). Greinke is elite, don't kid yourself.

they didnt beat us.

we beat halladay, oswaldt, hamels and lee in the post season.

to be the best, you have to beat the best.

giants are still the number one rotation.

 

[xxERICSMITHXX]

they didnt beat us.

we beat halladay, oswaldt, hamels and lee in the post season.

to be the best, you have to beat the best.

giants are still the number one rotation.

If the Phillies and Giants played 162 games against each other who would be better?

You can't keep using a small sample sizes as your argument.

 

[filosofy29]

If the Phillies and Giants played 162 games against each other who would be better?

You can't keep using a small sample sizes as your argument.

To take it one step further, even if the Giants have continued success against the Phillies starters this coming season, that still doesn't mean that their starters are worse than ours. It just may be that we match up favorably against those said pitchers whereas other lineups may not. Like you said, it's got to be a larger sample size in order to more accurately determine which staff is superior.

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

If the Phillies and Giants played 162 games against each other who would be better?

You can't keep using a small sample sizes as your argument.

Right, which is a why it's a good thing they're not in our division. Once you're in the playoffs, things like Cody Ross happen.

 

[tzill]

they didnt beat us.

we beat halladay, oswaldt, hamels and lee in the post season.

to be the best, you have to beat the best.

giants are still the number one rotation.

Dude, you're welcome to your opinion, but if you define "best" as "winner in a head-to-head short sample size" then OK.

However, if you accept the more generally defined definition of "#1 over a statistically large sample" then the Phils are #1 going into the season. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[sfsportsfan]

lol. im jus being a homer

 

[calsnowskier]

lol. im jus being a homer

We are Giants fans. we are supposed to be homerish.

I actually believe the Giants have the better rotation, but that is based more on the age factor than the SSS (and I know it gets tz's goat to disagree with him).

 

[SFGRTB]

Put it this way, which rotation would you rather have?

I'd say the Giants because of their youth and price. Zito, our oldest, would be the 3rd oldest on their staff and the rest of them are 28 and under.

 

[filosofy29]

We are Giants fans. we are supposed to be homerish.

I actually believe the Giants have the better rotation, but that is based more on the age factor than the SSS (and I know it gets tz's goat to disagree with him).

I'd take the Phillies rotation next year and then the Giants rotation every year after next.

You're such a contrarian Cal

 

[I cAnT wAtCh]

Rank the top 5 NL starting rotations, and the top 15 NL starters with an emphasis on what you expect from them in 2011:

Teams:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Starters:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.

Teams
1. Phillies
2. Giants
3. Dodgers
4. Cardinals
5. Braves

Starters
1. Halladay
2. Wainwright
3. Lee
4. Lincecum
5. Josh Johnson
6. Carpenter
7. Grienke
8. Ubaldo
9. Oswalt
10. Hudson
11. Hamels
12. Latos
13. Cain
14. Kershaw
15. Hanson

 

[calsnowskier]

Teams
1. Phillies
2. Giants
3. Dodgers
4. Cardinals
5. Braves

Starters
1. Halladay
2. Wainwright
3. Lee
4. Lincecum
5. Josh Johnson
6. Carpenter
7. Grienke
8. Ubaldo
9. Oswalt
10. Hudson
11. Hamels
12. Latos
13. Cain
14. Kershaw
15. Hanson

I agree that Halladay is 1. I can understand Wainwright as 2 (I dont agree, but I understand how someone may want to put him there). But Lee at #3 and ahead of Timmeh???

I have it...

1) Doc
2) Freak
3) Wain
4) Johnson
6) Greinke
5) Cain
6) Ubaldo
7) Lee

Outside of Lee's CY year, he is just a top-flight pitcher, he isn't elite. The same COULD be said for Greinke, but I am giving him points for pitching for a crappy team (and his age is pretty scary as well).

I like Bum, Hudson and Latos, but They are too young and have not shown it enough to be put on these lists yet.

 

[tzill]

We are Giants fans. we are supposed to be homerish.

I actually believe the Giants have the better rotation, but that is based more on the age factor than the SSS (and I know it gets tz's goat to disagree with him).

I hope you're right, but for 2011 I'm pretty sure you'll be wrong. Now, for 2012 on....I'd MUCH rather have our five than theirs.