politics thread

[Sportster 72]

The amazing thing to me about all these arguments whether it is politics, racism or even religion. Everyone is half right. Nothing is ever going to change if we all don't start working together. Nothing makes me madder than listen X, Y, Z Republican say I stand for this and there is no middle ground or vice versa for the other side. I see 295 pages here and primarily it is stating an opinion and then telling the other person(s) they are wrong. Maybe by page 1000 you will all get together and do something to try and help each other.

 

[Stymietee]

The amazing thing to me about all these arguments whether it is politics, racism or even religion. Everyone is half right. Nothing is ever going to change if we all don't start working together. Nothing makes me madder than listen X, Y, Z Republican say I stand for this and there is no middle ground or vice versa for the other side. I see 295 pages here and primarily it is stating an opinion and then telling the other person(s) they are wrong. Maybe by page 1000 you will all get together and do something to try and help each other.

Real nice paraphrasing, I appreciate that!

That said, true Freedom is challenging, it is noisy, disruptive, contentious, deadly, divisive, and at times confusing. It is who we claim to be as a nation and supposedly why we're willing to sacrifice our very lives to maintain. This debate isn't about who's right or wrong, but about freedom and the future of this country. We will either stand together or perish as fools (my slant on a MLK quote) is more apropos than ever considering the current climate. What can be done to elicit change that benefits everyone is the question that's being debated here because there's no question relating to how we got here.

 

[Sharkinva]

Real nice paraphrasing, I appreciate that!

That said, true Freedom is challenging, it is noisy, disruptive, contentious, deadly, divisive, and at times confusing. It is who we claim to be as a nation and supposedly why we're willing to sacrifice our very lives to maintain. This debate isn't about who's right or wrong, but about freedom and the future of this country. We will either stand together or perish as fools (my slant on a MLK quote) is more apropos than ever considering the current climate. What can be done to elicit change that benefits everyone is the question that's being debated here because there's no question relating to how we got here.

The question has been raised of how we got here. The problem is

1. We disagree on how we got here
2. We cant really even agree on where here is.
3. Even if we sort of agree on where here is, we still cant come to a consensus of where we should be headed.

 

[Stymietee]

The question has been raised of how we got here. The problem is

1. We disagree on how we got here
2. We cant really even agree on where here is.
3. Even if we sort of agree on where here is, we still cant come to a consensus of where we should be headed.

A tree is known by the fruit that it bears...

This country was framed and built by men. These men decided that in order to negotiate through their commercial enterprises, they would have to address all aspects relating to business, then, and in future terms. Labor being part of commerce there was this question of how best to deal with it. Inherent in that question lived the question of morality. Religious affirmation being the root from which morality springs, there had to be some way in which they could conduct business and absolve themselves of this conflict. This is what they came up with:

"The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents Congress from making any law respecting an establishment of religion, prohibiting the free exercise of religion, or abridging the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the right to peaceably assemble, or to petition for a governmental redress of grievances."

In other words, you had an expressed right to your religious beliefs, and if your religious beliefs confirmed that you were allowed to do some truly fucked up things, it's all good by the laws of this land. We fight that fight still today. Like I said, "a tree is known by the fruit that it bears."

 

[ehb5]

You tell me why people make the choices they do.

Well you're the one arguing that an entire group of people are consistently making worse choices. Im curious why you think that is.

 

[skinsdad62]

Well you're the one arguing that an entire group of people are consistently making worse choices. Im curious why you think that is.

any race those stats hold up

 

[ehb5]

any race those stats hold up

What?

 

[skinsdad62]

What?

just as i said

 

[ehb5]

just as i said

I have no idea what you DID say.

Im asking you to explain what you believe the cause is for certain groups not having respect for the family as you put it.

 

[skinsdad62]

I have no idea what you DID say.

Im asking you to explain what you believe the cause is for certain groups not having respect for the family as you put it.

i dont think i said they didnt have respect for family . i said the stats say that single parent homes where the father or mother is absent (not in child's life ) in 72 % of time the kids end up in poverty . its in the 70% they end up in trouble (meaning those being arrested and committing crimes )

this is for any race

also 3 things to avoid poverty

finish HS or get GED

dont have kids before 20

dont get married till 21

do those 3 things and chances are (3 in 4) you wont end up in poverty

this is also for any race

 

[gkekoa]

I've been raised to always take responsibility for shit that I've broken. In a larger sense, that applies to those who created, built and maintain this system of so-called "white" superiority and Racism. If you want to not "feel" that burden, I'm here man. Maybe together we can do something about making meaningful changes. Until then, if you want to point a finger at who's responsible, I suggest you answer a simple question. Get a mirror and ask does this skin give me ANY kind of advantage in this country and at what human cost did it get you here generationally?

In the meantime know this, every time you try to pull that racist reverse guilt BS. I'm going to just continue coming back at you with stuff that you'll be compelled to ignore or admit to its truth. I won't be nasty about it either, I still respect your willingness to engage and as a Washington family member. That won't ever change, but using low level terms like "whitey" won't cut it anymore. Tricks are for kids, time to play in the intellectual end of the spectrum.

The things you claim cannot be proven with regards to race today. I have never been given anything as a result of my skin tone so I can look into the mirror with no issue.

You want to blame white people for the choices of the black community. If the black community were to address their own shortcomings and still be “held back,” then you would have an actual fact based argument. BTW...there are shortcomings in the white community as well, the same shortcomings TBH, but we don’t give a damn and are more than willing to say he got what he deserved.

 

[gkekoa]

Well you're the one arguing that an entire group of people are consistently making worse choices. Im curious why you think that is.

I didn’t say an entire group. I said the group as a whole when in comparison. I will give you a whole other subsection of that same group. The children of black soldiers don’t seem to have the issues of other members of the black community. I wonder why that is?

 

[Stymietee]

The things you claim cannot be proven with regards to race today. I have never been given anything as a result of my skin tone so I can look into the mirror with no issue.

You want to blame white people for the choices of the black community. If the black community were to address their own shortcomings and still be “held back,” then you would have an actual fact based argument. BTW...there are shortcomings in the white community as well, the same shortcomings TBH, but we don’t give a damn and are more than willing to say he got what he deserved.

First of all, 74% of all black families are living easily above the poverty line. Just because you want to continue to exaggerate the "underachieving" poor black scourge in this country doesn't make it so! That's your agenda, and we both know why you're doing it! Here's why you don't, can't or refuse to see the built in advantages of having instantly perceptible non-melanated skin.

Systemic Racism:

"Systemic racism is both a theoretical concept and a reality. As a theory, it is premised on the research-supported claim that the United States was founded as a racist society, that racism is thus embedded in all social institutions, structures, and social relations within our society. Rooted in a racist foundation, systemic racism today is composed of intersecting, overlapping, and codependent racist institutions, policies, practices, ideas, and behaviors that give an unjust amount of resources, rights, and power to white people while denying them to people of color."

In effect, I don't have to prove a given. Of course there are problems in differing communities throughout the country, that however, doesn't make them a "black" issue, just another in the United States. (aren't we all citizens?) BTW: show me one instance in all of our communications where I personally, blamed "white" people for the choices of "black" people. I dare you!

I know that you can't because in fact , I have, from the very beginning consistently referred to systemic racism. Not "white" people. Hell the term "white" doesn't really make sense historically. Prior to the Atlantic slave trade, people were identified by their geographic roots. BTW: as a reminder, almost everyone in this country supports systemic racism, some by choice, some by circumstance and others as victims of the system. You wouldn't know this because you're too busy defending your "whiteness" (hmmmm, there's a bit if irony in that) See: The American stratification system.

 

[Stymietee]

For those who said that he was through...

For those who said that it will never happen again...

For those that doubted the man...

...and for those who he bought into the game then and once again...

This one is for you!!!




Now, O.J. get yer ass out there, and find the real killers

 

[gkekoa]

First of all, 74% of all black families are living easily above the poverty line. Just because you want to continue to exaggerate the "underachieving" poor black scourge in this country doesn't make it so! That's your agenda, and we both know why you're doing it! Here's why you don't, can't or refuse to see the built in advantages of having instantly perceptible non-melanated skin.

Systemic Racism:

"Systemic racism is both a theoretical concept and a reality. As a theory, it is premised on the research-supported claim that the United States was founded as a racist society, that racism is thus embedded in all social institutions, structures, and social relations within our society. Rooted in a racist foundation, systemic racism today is composed of intersecting, overlapping, and codependent racist institutions, policies, practices, ideas, and behaviors that give an unjust amount of resources, rights, and power to white people while denying them to people of color."

In effect, I don't have to prove a given. Of course there are problems in differing communities throughout the country, that however, doesn't make them a "black" issue, just another in the United States. (aren't we all citizens?) BTW: show me one instance in all of our communications where I personally, blamed "white" people for the choices of "black" people. I dare you!

I know that you can't because in fact , I have, from the very beginning consistently referred to systemic racism. Not "white" people. Hell the term "white" doesn't really make sense historically. Prior to the Atlantic slave trade, people were identified by their geographic roots. BTW: as a reminder, almost everyone in this country supports systemic racism, some by choice, some by circumstance and others as victims of the system. You wouldn't know this because you're too busy defending your "whiteness" (hmmmm, there's a bit if irony in that) See: The American stratification system.

When did I ever say blacks are underachievers? There are some blacks who do not meet their full potential, just as there are some whites. Nobody has any sympathy for whites who underachieve, but damn, when a black does it, the system held him back or white people did.

I actually have no agenda, unless you think allowing people to fail to be an agenda. It sure seems like you have an agenda to give black people, at a minimum sympathy, when they do not achieve greatness.

Just because you post some idiots ramblings about systemic racism and he claims it to be a reality, doesn’t make it true...especially when he admits there are problems in the black community...I mean problems in just another community within the US...unless we are talking being wronged and then it is the black community. I mean seriously...people can’t even keep the stuff they are spouting straight and consistent.

 

[Stymietee]

When did I ever say blacks are underachievers? There are some blacks who do not meet their full potential, just as there are some whites. Nobody has any sympathy for whites who underachieve, but damn, when a black does it, the system held him back or white people did.

I actually have no agenda, unless you think allowing people to fail to be an agenda. It sure seems like you have an agenda to give black people, at a minimum sympathy, when they do not achieve greatness.

Just because you post some idiots ramblings about systemic racism and he claims it to be a reality, doesn’t make it true...especially when he admits there are problems in the black community...I mean problems in just another community within the US...unless we are talking being wronged and then it is the black community. I mean seriously...people can’t even keep the stuff they are spouting straight and consistent.

You do know that at some point you're going to have to admit to the realities of systemic racism don't you? I literally gave you, better, served up that opportunity, an easy get, in my last post. "everybody supports systemic racism..." line. Seems you don't want to admit to well established facts, or maybe you honestly don't get it. If that's the case, let's play in your back yard. Enjoy!!

Once there were two athletes, who under any other circumstance, were fairly evenly matched. They were runners who very early on were told that at the start of every race one would start ten yards from the finish the other at 100 yards from the finish. This went on for some time until one day, the runner who was 100 yards away filed a complaint. There came the resultant meeting where his grievance was heard and ruled to be improper because he was at least allowed to compete. Some more time slipped by and again another grievance, this time, after a few more losses it was ruled that there was merit to the complaint and a solution to move the complainant 50 yards closer. More losses ensued and still another grievance. Finally, there was a ruling that had both runners start at the same point and as you might have guessed, still another grievance. This time the complaint came from the runner who was afforded this long time advantage who claimed an unfair advantage was being afforded to his competitor because they had to start at the same start point. In an interesting twist the ruling body insisted that they will forever start at the same point with one exception. The runner who originally began at the 100 yards back mark, will now have staggered conventional and water hurdles or other such "challenges" in his lane for as long as the same family of judges remained in place. This went on for generations until today we find the majority of the disadvantaged still fighting, some finding unique ways to stay in the game and the remaining choosing to no longer be involved in the race at all....UNDERSTAND?

Ironically, in an interview a member of the runner's generation with all of the advantages was asked. "what do you think about the advantages that you and those that preceded you have enjoyed?" In a clear eyed, straightforward near expressionless response, he answered, "What advantages?"...Understand?

 

[gkekoa]

You do know that at some point you're going to have to admit to the realities of systemic racism don't you? I literally gave you, better, served up that opportunity, an easy get, in my last post. "everybody supports systemic racism..." line. Seems you don't want to admit to well established facts, or maybe you honestly don't get it. If that's the case, let's play in your back yard. Enjoy!!

Once there were two athletes, who under any other circumstance, were fairly evenly matched. They were runners who very early on were told that at the start of every race one would start ten yards from the finish the other at 100 yards from the finish. This went on for some time until one day, the runner who was 100 yards away filed a complaint. There came the resultant meeting where his grievance was heard and ruled to be improper because he was at least allowed to compete. Some more time slipped by and again another grievance, this time, after a few more losses it was ruled that there was merit to the complaint and a solution to move the complainant 50 yards closer. More losses ensued and still another grievance. Finally, there was a ruling that had both runners start at the same point and as you might have guessed, still another grievance. This time the complaint came from the runner who was afforded this long time advantage who claimed an unfair advantage was being afforded to his competitor because they had to start at the same start point. In an interesting twist the ruling body insisted that they will forever start at the same point with one exception. The runner who originally began at the 100 yards back mark, will now have staggered conventional and water hurdles or other such "challenges" in his lane for as long as the same family of judges remained in place. This went on for generations until today we find the majority of the disadvantaged still fighting, some finding unique ways to stay in the game and the remaining choosing to no longer be involved in the race at all....UNDERSTAND?

Ironically, in an interview a member of the runner's generation with all of the advantages was asked. "what do you think about the advantages that you and those that preceded you have enjoyed?" In a clear eyed, straightforward near expressionless response, he answered, "What advantages?"...Understand?

What does being married, having a father figure in the home, access to private education, access to a free tutor, fears of a cell phone being shut off, having to help parents out with bills, or wondering where your next meal is going to come from has to do with race. It is proven in the same video with white people still at the starting line.

Now, let me ask why the guy talks about paying for college but omits athleticism? He is likely referring to parents paying for college but what about academic scholarships? He closes with stating everything he stated had nothing to do with the kid, which is wrong because academic scholarships have everything to do with the kids.

You see. I fully understand the word privilege and understand that individuals have advantages over other individuals. I fully understand schools in location A are superior to schools in location B. I disagree with the belief that those advantages are based on race.

 

[Skins2021]

Please do not opine if you aren't aware of historical events or the timing of the same I was a teen during the Jim Crow era. That was not multiple generations ago.

The vestiges of Slavery still exist as do those who were and are actively involved in it.

So let me be clear, what you're calling racism against people who you refer to as "white" should be remedied exactly how?
I'm sure that you mean well, but understand that racism is a system constructed to maintain advantages for a particular group. There's a huge difference between being a racist and being prejudiced.

Now, I'll grant you one thing about people who you refer to as "black " and their "racism" It is true that these people are racist and commit acts of racism. However because there is no power base or system designed for their benefit, they can only be racist and/commit acts of racism upon themselves. Long story short...What you're referring to is prejudice, not racism, against so called "white" people.

Save the semantics...

This is Jemele Hillesque mental gymnastics to defend "black" while putting down "white" at all costs.

Racism and prejudice are wrong and both are frowned upon. I dont need you to get into the etymology of the words because it completely dismisses the point, which IMO is a deflection tactic that I see almost 100% of the time when people call out "reverse racism".

Spend 20 minutes reading twitter. Racism/prejudice of POC appears to be trending down while racism/prejudice of "whites" appears to be trending up.

Can you admit that is wrong? Why is it the case?

Can you also acknowledge that not all but many use racism/prejudice as a crutch or excuse for ones own shortcomings? People like Jemele Hill who finally got canned for good perpetuate this sentiment. I find it to be terrible.

BTW Serena Williams acted like a fool, a baby, and a sore loser when she lost. People of all colors should recognize this fact but there seems to be a demographic split on that opinion and thats the kind of shit that drives me absolutely nuts.

 

[Stymietee]

What does being married, having a father figure in the home, access to private education, access to a free tutor, fears of a cell phone being shut off, having to help parents out with bills, or wondering where your next meal is going to come from has to do with race. It is proven in the same video with white people still at the starting line.

Now, let me ask why the guy talks about paying for college but omits athleticism? He is likely referring to parents paying for college but what about academic scholarships? He closes with stating everything he stated had nothing to do with the kid, which is wrong because academic scholarships have everything to do with the kids.

You see. I fully understand the word privilege and understand that individuals have advantages over other individuals. I fully understand schools in location A are superior to schools in location B. I disagree with the belief that those advantages are based on race.

What does being married, having a father figure in the home, access to private education, access to a free tutor, fears of a cell phone being shut off, having to help parents out with bills, or wondering where your next meal is going to come from has to do with race. It is proven in the same video with white people still at the starting line.

It is inconceivable that you watched your own video (#1) and focused on the "white" people still at the starting line. It's an old trick but it really doesn't play well with the facts as they currently exist in this country. To be clear, racism was the basis on which the country was built and remains today systemically. Tell you what since you want to play games, show me any evidence that you can find where there was an eradication of systemic racism, anywhere! Did you watch your own video (#1) Did you notice that some of the participants never bothered to run? This is an answer to one of your previous questions. Finally, did you take note of what the speaker said at the end? It's instructive!

Now, let me ask why the guy talks about paying for college but omits athleticism? He is likely referring to parents paying for college but what about academic scholarships? He closes with stating everything he stated had nothing to do with the kid, which is wrong because academic scholarships have everything to do with the kids.

Now you're conflating two different things and what follows misses the mark. He omits athleticism in order to get the viewer/ participant to see things evenly. Athleticism is not something that everyone has. He also didn't include academic scholarships for the same reason. What were you seeing/hearing, something that you wanted to see/hear? If you view it again, try seeing it for what it is and not what you want it to be!

You see. I fully understand the word privilege and understand that individuals have advantages over other individuals. I fully understand schools in location A are superior to schools in location B. I disagree with the belief that those advantages are based on race.

So what would you then call this so-called "privilege" when the majority of the same type individuals are getting it and the majority, if not all, of another group of individuals are not afforded the same "privilege?" Go ahead, you can say it! "Privilege is built upon something, right? Why are there schools that are superior to others? what is it about child "A" that's different from child "B" in the United States of America? Is one life more valuable than another? BTW: if you believe that, Why?

So let's talk about Ben Shapiro And Jesse Lee Peterson. In order, whenever someone first puts a name to a thing then defines it from his POV, watch out!! Mr. Shapiro does this with his opening words. His are..."white privilege is responsible for everything." Where did he get this notion? (rhetorical) You see the issue is not "white privilege" in his speech, the issue is "everything." In the human condition, nothing is absolute (although it's said death and taxes) and therefore absolutes, as is the case here, is easily disproven.


Jesse Lee Peterson, a man that I happen to know, is, to be kind, misguided in his presentations and a rather clever fellow in profiteering from the same. He combines religion with politics, has zero standing in communities of color and has largely made his money by selling snake oil to audiences who already hold positions that he hammers home. Know what? I'm not going to further disparage him as I'm sure that we will cross paths again. I'll just say, privately, he changes his game and apparently his position when facts, that he's well aware of, are reintroduced. Is it possible for you to introduce something from another conservative with more credible standing...Armstrong Williams perhaps?

 

[Stymietee]

Save the semantics...

This is Jemele Hillesque mental gymnastics to defend "black" while putting down "white" at all costs.

Racism and prejudice are wrong and both are frowned upon. I dont need you to get into the etymology of the words because it completely dismisses the point, which IMO is a deflection tactic that I see almost 100% of the time when people call out "reverse racism".

Spend 20 minutes reading twitter. Racism/prejudice of POC appears to be trending down while racism/prejudice of "whites" appears to be trending up.

Can you admit that is wrong? Why is it the case?

Can you also acknowledge that not all but many use racism/prejudice as a crutch or excuse for ones own shortcomings? People like Jemele Hill who finally got canned for good perpetuate this sentiment. I find it to be terrible.

BTW Serena Williams acted like a fool, a baby, and a sore loser when she lost. People of all colors should recognize this fact but there seems to be a demographic split on that opinion and thats the kind of shit that drives me absolutely nuts.

Oh man, where do I begin with you? So many foolish things to unpack. So let's do it this way. Using your own words you wrote:

Save the semantics...
This is Jemele Hillesque mental gymnastics to defend "black" while putting down "white" at all costs.

Who's putting down any group or defending another at all costs? BTW: welcome to the conversation! Speasking of the same, the subject is systemic racism, not "black" or "white". The construct of "white" and "black" has been built upon the need to hold into bondage other human beings. Therefore, unless there's a continued need to make such a distinction, the construct must be destroyed.

Racism and prejudice are wrong and both are frowned upon. I dont need you to get into the etymology of the words because it completely dismisses the point, which IMO is a deflection tactic that I see almost 100% of the time when people call out "reverse racism".

I agree that both racism and prejudice are unnecessary (my word not yours). Everyone can be Prejudiced, not everyone can be racist. If you don't get that, you have an issue. BTW: who cares what you don't need, concerning the way I instruct? Nobody invited you into what was a two way conversation, but if you want to join in at least try to make yourself seem less the fool than you did by coming in and attempting to control what someone else says (writes).

Spend 20 minutes reading twitter. Racism/prejudice of POC appears to be trending down while racism/prejudice of "whites" appears to be trending up.

Americans by and large are not well informed, social media sites like twitter, Facebook, and the like aren't designed to get them better informed. Beyond this site, I have no memberships in any other. That said, while it might be true that prejudice against "whites" is trending up, there's just no way that racism is also up against them. That's impossible!! Maybe you should look up the word since you don't want to be instructed. Know better be better!

Can you admit that is wrong? Why is it the case?

I just did that concerning prejudice, it's impossible to make that same claim about racism. So the question now is "why is it the case?" Well, not to get too deep, it's because there was a need to create a world in which prejudice and racism exists. Strange, that you find it offensive, when it's thrown back at you. Not you specifically, but what you represent. If you want it to end because you don't like it, I suggest that you go have a talk with your parents and their parents if they're still with us to come up with a plan to destroy that which they passed on to you.

Can you also acknowledge that not all but many use racism/prejudice as a crutch or excuse for ones own shortcomings? People like Jemele Hill who finally got canned for good perpetuate this sentiment. I find it to be terrible.

I totally agree that racism has been and continues to be used to advantage. What is this issue that you have with Jemele Hill? Did you not get a chance to date her? BTW: there are plenty of people who wish that they can get fired in the manner that she did.
Report: Jemele Hill to Accept ESPN Buyout of Contract ...
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2792737-report-jemele-hill-to...


BTW Serena Williams acted like a fool, a baby, and a sore loser when she lost. People of all colors should recognize this fact but there seems to be a demographic split on that opinion and thats the kind of shit that drives me absolutely nuts.

I don't know what's going on with you but clearly Twitter has you all atwitter, maybe this will help!

"Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas "_Eleanor Roosevelt