Police want to speak with La'el Collins

[tpaulus_2]

I can't let this one die out. No more on not pursuing him as an UDFA, that's been covered and Millenhew is an idiot, now on to why we didn't draft him in the first place. That involves the incompetence of the other half of The Clown Show.

Everyone wants to say that Collins would have held out if we spent a late rd pick on him, that's ridiculous. He would never have been advised to sit out an entire year and then reenter the draft. It would absolutely have hurt his draft stock and the financial side of it just wouldn't make sense.

Even if Collins was the first pick in the 2nd round of the 2016 draft, and that might be optimistic given a year away from the game, he would be signing roughly a 4yr /$5.5m deal with about $3.3m guaranteed. But he gets none of that for an entire year and cant hold out for a new deal until after 3 years of that deal would have passed. So it takes him 4 years to be able to potentially get a big payday, during which time he would have been paid about $4m.

If we spent our 7th rd pick on him his deal is more like 4 years $2.2m. Not that much of a signing bonus but I know of no rule that says the Lions couldn't guarantee that entire contract, which would be huge in narrowing the gap of why waiting another year is the best option. After 3 years of a 7th rd contract he would have been paid roughly $1.5m and be eligible to hold out for a new deal.


With the chance to get a big payday a full year earlier and a fully guaranteed contract that would make for a very attractive offer that IMO believe he and his agent would have taken. While you can say that 31 other teams also didn't elect to go that route I don't care, I'm talking about the Lions and less than a week later almost every team in the NFL was trying to sign him. So that thought as an arguing point is completely moot.

Their jobs are about evaluating risk vs reward, to be successful that also requires the vision to see more than just whats immediately in front of you. The two restructurings of Suh's contract is precisely what I mean by that. The Clown Show has NONE of those skills, absolutely NONE.

LewanDUI is supposed to advise Millenhew that from a numbers perspective he believed Collins would sign and not go back into the draft. With that knowledge Millenhew has to decide whether its then worth risking that draft pick in the event it doesn't happen that way.

Raise your hand if you think that based on the way I just explained that you truly think The Clown Show knows what its doing and wouldn't have risk that 7th rd pick? Why not take the extremely low risk of potentially wasting a 7th rd pick for a 1st rd talent while still protecting the image of the franchise by simply not actually letting him sign the contract or take part in anything Lions before his name was cleared? It's that simple and these bozos just don't get it.

So every GM in the league is incompetent then, by this measure. That does help explain why you're so hard on Mayhew, if you think all 32 GMs are incompetent for not drafting him...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Hand raised. Here's why. I doubt he would have signed. I don't think that was a bluff. He would have sat out and been a high pick next year. Now if the question is should they have taken him in the 3rd round...I'd say probably, maybe. They did not have the time to give him the same lie detector test the Cowgirls gave him.

It would have been a risk for sure at that time. I have this feeling had he took him, you Dr evil would have been criticizing him for it.

All that being said...pre-draft mumbo jumbo is just that. Collins could be Jason Smith all over again. I will not fault him for playing it safe.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

So easy to criticize with the advantage of hindsight, but the fact that all 32 teams passed on him through all 7 rounds makes it awfully hard to criticize Mayhew on this one...

 

[tpaulus_2]

He might, and so might LT. He might also be a Pro Bowler. I don't understand what you are trying to say?

In simple terms we should absolutely have drafted him because everything lines up to make it a very good risk to take. Even after The Clown Show screwed that up it appears we had every opportunity to sign him as an UDFA (even without making an extra effort), instead we chose to pass and didn't pursue him at all.

These are painfully obvious examples of why we have the worst front office in the league, and the worst ownership in the league for being so stupid as to not recognize the incompetance of the idiots running their team.

A horrible front office and an owner that doesn't care is what gets you one playoff victory in 25 years. Lions have been the joke of the league for a long time and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

You put a lot of stock into hearsay. Hearsay from very, very questionable sources, at that...

 

[Stomp]

So every GM in the league is incompetent then, by this measure. That does help explain why you're so hard on Mayhew, if you think all 32 GMs are incompetent for not drafting him...

All the GM's of teams that need a RT badly anyways. Just like the Randy Gregory pick if a GM had used a 2nd rounder or later pick on him they would be getting praised for a great draft.

 

[Stomp]

.pre-draft mumbo jumbo is just that. Collins could be Jason Smith all over again. I will not fault him for playing it safe.

Eugene Monroe would be a better comparison from that draft. Like Monroe Collins has great technique and a strong motor Jason Smith was a converted TE without much experience, but great potential. Collins versatility and skill set would have made him a pretty safe pick.

 

[lionstop1]

It has to be something more than this for Mayhew to get bashed for it. Nothing about this whole thing says that Mayhew made the biggest mistake in the world.

For one, the ENTIRE league passed on this guy and to assume the Lions should've been the team most willing to risk it, given their history is unreasonable. Instead, there should be some credit given if the rumors are true that there was some interest on the Lions behalf.

On top of that, theres still some missing information regardless of what has been reported. Just because they tell it one way doesnt mean thats exactly what happened. What was said is believable but I still dont see what the big deal is.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

So every GM in the league is incompetent then, by this measure. That does help explain why you're so hard on Mayhew, if you think all 32 GMs are incompetent for not drafting him...

Winner winner chicken dinner!

So easy to criticize with the advantage of hindsight, but the fact that all 32 teams passed on him through all 7 rounds makes it awfully hard to criticize Mayhew on this one...

You put a lot of stock into hearsay. Hearsay from very, very questionable sources, at that...

Could you at least TRY and pay attention. If you would even bother to read and understand before you just go off blindly defending anything and everything this fucking team does as being right you might actually respond with something that is thought provoking instead of head scratching.

I am not even going to try and write out an explanation cause everyone else gets it but you. Read it again and then see if you can offer a response more worthy of being read.

Do you even know what hearsay is? Cause there is none of it in anything I wrote

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

Eugene Monroe would be a better comparison from that draft. Like Monroe Collins has great technique and a strong motor Jason Smith was a converted TE without much experience, but great potential. Collins versatility and skill set would have made him a pretty safe pick.

I think my point was less Jason Smith and more we've seen dozens of can't miss prospects become horrible busts over the years. That's why I try not to get my panties in a bunch or too excited over any one. Although Ebron over Aaron Donald or....anyone else drafted I'm the first 2 rounds may have caused a little bunchation.

Collins could very well suck balls...he's not a Lion so I don't care.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

Could you at least TRY and pay attention. If you would even bother to read and understand before you just go off blindly defending anything and everything this fucking team does as being right you might actually respond with something that is thought provoking instead of head scratching.

I am not even going to try and write out an explanation cause everyone else gets it but you. Read it again and then see if you can offer a response more worthy of being read.

Do you even know what hearsay is? Cause there is none of it in anything I wrote

Evil...in regards to your first paragraph...don't blindly condemn everything they do. Your fox news and Mayhew is Obama. You could use a little taste of your own advice...just saying.

 

[broncosmitty]

hear·say
ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
   "according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"
   synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
   
   • LAW
     the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
     "everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"

 

[broncosmitty]

Please continue....

 

[RobBase]

They say the Lions are 3-38 vs. teams w winning records in 6 years under Mayhew. But I don't believe it.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Evil...in regards to your first paragraph...don't blindly condemn everything they do. Your fox news and Mayhew is Obama. You could use a little taste of your own advice...just saying.

When there has been the opportunity for praise I have given it, but those opportunities have been few and far between.

TP (and other eternal optimists)has adamantly defended the Ngata trade saying 4th and a 5th rd pick is essentially nothing because you get nothing out of those picks anyway. Yet when I suggest that even our 7th rd pick be spent on a guy who under normal circumstances would have been a first rd pick (perhaps even ours) it's bashing on The Clown Show?

They deserve to be bashed. Saying everyone else passed as well is fucking retarded. He was going to sign with someone, period, end discussion, that was a given. So someone has to be the first to make a move towards that. Any GM that spent a late rd pick on him would be viewed as an intelligent risk taker and even if he had been arrested and charged that pick would not have harmed the franchise image one bit.

For all that passed during the draft almost every single one of those GM's apparently were calling him the next week. What is beyond hysterical is that when I suggest that Millenhew didn't do shit to try and sign him then I'm told every team in the league was probably calling, and I didn't really know what then Lions had done. I'm told it's the stealth capability of the Lions and a lack of NFL fan interest in what's happening in Detroit as to why it's not reported. LMAO at that.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Business, particularly in the NFL where your product is the skillset of a person, is about taking calculated risks and that is prevelant with every player. Our own idiot GM said that he was too aggressive in completely failing at two entire drafts and fails miserably again here.

And the premise of this new debate I started was actually about LewanDUI, because he should have played an important role in helping Millenhew understand the contract numbers and be there to show him, and after drafting him then Collins and his agent, as to why signing now vs going back into the draft next year was best for him.

This was a piece of cake analysis where reward on a 7th rd pick was immensely higher than a very, very low level of risk and we let it go right through our fingertips. The optimists can defend him all they want but I've seen absolutely nothing offered up that even comes close to offsetting my justification and reasoning behind why it's just another completely huge blown opportunity.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

So every GM in the league is incompetent then, by this measure. That does help explain why you're so hard on Mayhew, if you think all 32 GMs are incompetent for not drafting him...

How many of the GM's with his tenure, which you can argue goes back even into the Millen days, have as little to show for their efforts. I have more than demonstratively addressed why it was a very good risk with little of no down side. Only one team was going to get to sign him and there has been reporting saying the Lions had more than a good shot at that, you simply dismiss it as hearsay so you can continue blindly defending this front office no matter what is offered showing just how incompetent they are.

They say the Lions are 3-38 vs. teams w winning records in 6 years under Mayhew. But I don't believe it.

Get ready for the two playoff appearances, "slightly above average", other GM's miss in the draft just as much, better roster, and Lord knows what other justification for that is coming. You are just a hater. We do great against bottom feeder teams, hopefully we will get to match up against them in the playoffs this year. Wait, huh? What? That doesn't,......never mind.

 

[tpaulus_2]

All the GM's of teams that need a RT badly anyways. Just like the Randy Gregory pick if a GM had used a 2nd rounder or later pick on him they would be getting praised for a great draft.

They'd be getting praised by some guys who want the air-time, but plenty of others seemed to think Gregory would be a bust at any round. Imo, it's all in individual perception- whichever side of the fence you're on, there's plenty enough material to support your point either way...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Could you at least TRY and pay attention. If you would even bother to read and understand before you just go off blindly defending anything and everything this fucking team does as being right you might actually respond with something that is thought provoking instead of head scratching.

I am not even going to try and write out an explanation cause everyone else gets it but you. Read it again and then see if you can offer a response more worthy of being read.

Do you even know what hearsay is? Cause there is none of it in anything I wrote

Lol, I read what you wrote, calm down big fella. I just didn't agree with it at all- you can't simply brush off the fact that every single GM passed on him through all seven rounds just because that's what's convenient for your argument.

I see what you're saying and where you're coming from, and I absolutely wish we had drafted him in the 7th round. But to rip Mayhew and co. apart for it, when all the other general managers did the exact same thing is simply a witch hunt, imo.

You're mind is made up on Mayhew, I get that, and it's you're prerogative. But you can't keep coming on here exploding like Mt. St. Helens and then freak out on those of us who offer a rebuttal. That's not even remotely fair. Everyone who doesn't agree with you isn't "stupid, a homer, blind" etc...

As for the "highly questionable sources and/or hearsay," well I don't put very much stock into Swarm claiming he "heard it on XM radio." That dude has proven to be an out-right liar and basically just trolls the board for kicks. When exactly did he become a credible source?

Imo it's a tough time to be calling Lions fans homers coming off an 11-5 season in our 1st year with a new coaching staff. I do understand that the offseason and draft didn't unfold as you wanted them to, but from my perspective there was clearly a plan to maximize compensatory picks throughout free agency. I can't speak for anyone else, but I keep reading these articles about how much success the Ravens and Packers have by not signing unrestricted free agents and instead netting the comp picks they get when the let certain veterans walk, and I can't help but like that strategy. I'm excited that we're looking at two or three extra picks in next year's draft (but I'm still sad about losing Suh).

It's fine for you to hate Mayhew, and you're free to post as you like. Please give those of us on the other side of the argument the same courtesy.

 

[tpaulus_2]

TP (and other eternal optimists)has adamantly defended the Ngata trade saying 4th and a 5th rd pick is essentially nothing because you get nothing out of those picks anyway.

Well that's not true at all. I said I thought it was a great trade because of the odds. I never said those picks were "nothing" nor did I say that we never get anything out of those picks. I did point out that (and we're talking league-wide, not just on the Lions) that 4th and 5th round picks don't historically pan out into quality starters. More often than not, and this isn't my opinion at all- the numbers back it up, 4th and 5th rounders just don't pan out in the long run. Most don't see a second contract with the team that drafted them. That's just the reality of the draft.

So, to trade those two picks for a 5 time All-Pro defensive tackle who used to play on the same defense our DC used to coach on, and who fills a HUGE hole, well I see that as a good move.

And that's all. Not that those picks were nothing or couldn't have panned out, I just think the risk-reward on getting a guaranteed high-level starter instead of hoping we picked the right players was a savvy move. Luckily there's a written record on this very site of me writing just that right from the get go...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Yet when I suggest that even our 7th rd pick be spent on a guy who under normal circumstances would have been a first rd pick (perhaps even ours) it's bashing on The Clown Show?

They deserve to be bashed. Saying everyone else passed as well is fucking retarded. He was going to sign with someone, period, end discussion, that was a given. So someone has to be the first to make a move towards that. Any GM that spent a late rd pick on him would be viewed as an intelligent risk taker and even if he had been arrested and charged that pick would not have harmed the franchise image one bit.

For all that passed during the draft almost every single one of those GM's apparently were calling him the next week. What is beyond hysterical is that when I suggest that Millenhew didn't do shit to try and sign him then I'm told every team in the league was probably calling, and I didn't really know what then Lions had done. I'm told it's the stealth capability of the Lions and a lack of NFL fan interest in what's happening in Detroit as to why it's not reported. LMAO at that.

So Mayhew deserves to be bashed for passing on Collins, but it's "fucking retarded" to suggest that the other 31 GMs should be bashed for doing the exact same thing?!



#withchunt

 

[tpaulus_2]

And the premise of this new debate I started was actually about LewanDUI, because he should have played an important role in helping Millenhew understand the contract numbers and be there to show him, and after drafting him then Collins and his agent, as to why signing now vs going back into the draft next year was best for him.

This was a piece of cake analysis where reward on a 7th rd pick was immensely higher than a very, very low level of risk and we let it go right through our fingertips.

Now this I totally agree with.