Police at the Clink wearing niner's gear

[Podunkparte]

I don't care if they're there to prevent or stop fighting and actual problems. What I see a problem with is if they start to step in against harmless shit talking that I see all day long at every game.

I also can see how some real 9er fans could take this as a way to entice Hawks fans. If we know cops are dressed in 9er gear, and 9er fans know that too, they can conceivably think Hawks fans won't do anything because anyone in red and gold could be a cop.

I just hope they only intervene for serious problems like an actual fight and not just someone yelling and shit talking.

 

[dude82]

I'm not saying that it's not effective. I'm saying that it's not MORE EFFECTIVE than those 50 cops providing a transparent police presence.

Read my Ivars scenario and tell me if that you were you, would you prefer the cop in the jersey being there to help or the uniformed cop being there to prevent?

We know about this because we're hard core fans. The truly troublesome element will not know and if they do will be too drunk to care.

People do stupid things right in front of the police all the time when they're drunk (and there will be more drunk people there than usual due to the later start time). In cases like that, just having a uniformed officer out there isn't going to prevent anything. A sober person that respects authority isn't going to do anything in front of a uniformed officer because they know better and because they have the ability to make rational decisions, but those aren't the people that this is designed to catch. By assuming that a bigger uniformed presence in the stadium is going to keep the escalations to a minimum is to assume that drunk people are capable of thinking rationally or caring about the consequences of their actions.

Having officers out in the stands, where a lot of this stuff starts, in plain clothes, at least gives them a chance to keep it from escalating to the point of physical confrontation. If two people are talking crap to each other and the plain clothes officer senses that something bad is about to happen, he can alert the uniformed officer in the area so that if the two people decide to "take it outside", the uniformed officer can be there to prevent something from going down that he or she wouldn't have been on the lookout for without the heads-up from the plain clothes officer in the stands. Without a heads-up, he or she is stuck reacting to something that has already escalated to physical confrontation instead of being able to prevent it before it has a chance to happen.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm not saying that it's not effective. I'm saying that it's not MORE EFFECTIVE than those 50 cops providing a transparent police presence.

Read my Ivars scenario and tell me if that you were you, would you prefer the cop in the jersey being there to help or the uniformed cop being there to prevent?

We know about this because we're hard core fans. The truly troublesome element will not know and if they do will be too drunk to care.

It's better to have both uniformed and non-uniformed cops around. That way, people could think they're being watched even if they're not. And if there were only uniformed cops, dumbasses would just wait 'til there aren't any around to be dumbasses. There were cops & security guards at the games where people were shot or beat up; they can't see everything.

Plus, I'd I'm totally fine with someone who's a complete asshole who will start a fight with impunity & is just looking for trouble to get sent to jail so he has a record. If an under-cover cop is there, he can stop the fight before it gets completely out of hand.

 

[Screamin12th]

So let me get this straight. You think it is a bad idea because the Niner gear COMPELS people to act like assholes where they otherwise wouldn't? That's some of the dumbest shit I've read on this thread. How about acting like a civil human being so there won't be any cause for concern.

And for the record, I believe this should happen at EVERY stadium, this is not a SF vs SEA thing in my mind. The level of hostility at stadiums now is dangerously high and gets worse with every passing year. In addition to cops in uniforms, I agree and love the idea of undercovers as well. How any respectful fan can dispute this as anything other then a good idea is beyond me.

Spoken like a true 49er fan "they just don't GET IT"

Put these guys in uniform. Make a show of force. Show the fans that you will be there in force and they would not do anything to begin with. Putting them in 49er gear won't stop fans from reacting, put them in a uniform and it WILL.

Let me make it more BLACK AND WHITE. If you thought there was going to be a murder would you rather stop them AFTER it happens or BEFORE?

 

[Doublejive]

That's the point Suh.

Now Sonny i know you are level headed but trust me this is a good thing,there is no ryme or reason people starting BS with fans of either team.

Back in the day it was rowdy sure but we also did not have the youngens like today popping off rounds like the do far too often.
In my youth i ran with a wrong crowd and yes outside of concerts or even in we snuck weapons in,but todays ticket prices keep those types out for the most part but the drunk idiot should not impede on say a family if they wish to go see a game,my father took me to many Seahawk and Sonic games and me and my younger brother would roam the Kingdome sometimes for kicks at 12 years old,good luck with that nowadays.

 

[dredinis21]

Spoken like a true 49er fan "they just don't GET IT"

Put these guys in uniform. Make a show of force. Show the fans that you will be there in force and they would not do anything to begin with. Putting them in 49er gear won't stop fans from reacting, put them in a uniform and it WILL.

Let me make it more BLACK AND WHITE. If you thought there was going to be a murder would you rather stop them AFTER it happens or BEFORE?

Since you put it that way, let me just agree with you and your one way to skin a cat method over my brother who is a cop and has gone undercover and has data showing how quantity of incidents at Raider games went DOWN over 40% since undercover fans were put in place. Yup, I'm surely the one that doesn't get it.

 

[Doublejive]

By the way the only time i have ever been assaulted by someone inside a sport event was at the Coliseum when the Globetrotters came and was chucked against the wall by a Seattle cop because i was running underneath the bleachers,he was a dick.

That was the year the Sonics won the championship by the way with the old school Globetrotters.

 

[SonnyCID]

People do stupid things right in front of the police all the time when they're drunk (and there will be more drunk people there than usual due to the later start time). In cases like that, just having a uniformed officer out there isn't going to prevent anything. A sober person that respects authority isn't going to do anything in front of a uniformed officer because they know better and because they have the ability to make rational decisions, but those aren't the people that this is designed to catch. By assuming that a bigger uniformed presence in the stadium is going to keep the escalations to a minimum is to assume that drunk people are capable of thinking rationally or caring about the consequences of their actions.

Having officers out in the stands, where a lot of this stuff starts, in plain clothes, at least gives them a chance to keep it from escalating to the point of physical confrontation. If two people are talking crap to each other and the plain clothes officer senses that something bad is about to happen, he can alert the uniformed officer in the area so that if the two people decide to "take it outside", the uniformed officer can be there to prevent something from going down that he or she wouldn't have been on the lookout for without the heads-up from the plain clothes officer in the stands. Without a heads-up, he or she is stuck reacting to something that has already escalated to physical confrontation instead of being able to prevent it before it has a chance to happen.

I've seen plenty of examples of drunk morons that STFU when a cop comes around. And if they cant think rationally like you're saying, that's even more reason IMO to have cops that stand out.

I understand the strategy behind it. I just think that a uniformed cop could do all the same things that you mentioned and then some.

 

[SonnyCID]

Since you put it that way, let me just agree with you and your one way to skin a cat method over my brother who is a cop and has gone undercover and has data showing how quantity of incidents at Raider games went DOWN over 40% since undercover fans were put in place. Yup, I'm surely the one that doesn't get it.

Did they increase the number of police at the game when they started doing it or did they just take the existing crews and put them in street clothes? If they did increase it, by how much?

 

[dude82]

I've seen plenty of examples of drunk morons that STFU when a cop comes around. And if they cant think rationally like you're saying, that's even more reason IMO to have cops that stand out.

I understand the strategy behind it. I just think that a uniformed cop could do all the same things that you mentioned and then some.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. It's probably just something that they're testing out this year to see if it works better and if it doesn't, they'll go back to doing things the way they were doing things before. It's worth a try at least, although I honestly I don't think we have as big an issue with this kind of thing as other teams do in their stadiums. We'll have to see how it goes.

To address Podunk's concern that they'll take some cases of innocuous trash talking and "jump the gun" so-to-speak, I would hope that they understand sports well enough to be able to distinguish between two people giving each other crap in a friendly way and two people trying to bait each other into a fight. My guess is that they'll be using officers that have had stadium duty before and can tell the difference.

I would also hope that a Seahawks fan would be smart enough not to engage any Niners fans looking for a fight whether he thought the "fan" was a cop or not, although I don't think trying to incite a fight with Seahawks fans is what the intention of all this is. So I think that if there's any attempt to start a fight with a Seahawks fan by a guy in a Niners getup, it's probably a real Niners fan hoping that the fake Niners fans catch the Seahawks fan reacting to his taunts and only arrest the Seahawks fan. Did that make sense or was that last part a bunch of gibberish that sounded better in my head?

 

[dredinis21]

Did they increase the number of police at the game when they started doing it or did they just take the existing crews and put them in street clothes? If they did increase it, by how much?

They did increase it, but I don't know by how much, I'll ask my brother and get back to you. But the way I read this SEA article, it sounded as if they were actually increasing the number of cops.

 

[MrS]

They increased the number of cops OUTSIDE the stadium for sure, dogs and bomb truck too.

 

[octagondd]

I think if it truly was a setup or sting type operation to get rid of some bad seeds, they wouldn't have publicized it. The biggest part of this whole thing is the huge publicity for it. Everyone knows, including anyone watching ESPN, NFL network, etc. The point is, make people really aware that they are looking for problems, while the people are not drunk. It will be on the minds of everyone at the game and the truly unruly ones will get taken away. There may not be any officers in Niners gear at all for all we know.

 

[dredinis21]

I think if it truly was a setup or sting type operation to get rid of some bad seeds, they wouldn't have publicized it. The biggest part of this whole thing is the huge publicity for it. Everyone knows, including anyone watching ESPN, NFL network, etc. The point is, make people really aware that they are looking for problems, while the people are not drunk. It will be on the minds of everyone at the game and the truly unruly ones will get taken away. There may not be any officers in Niners gear at all for all we know.

That is true, but one could argue that it isn't a sting as much as it is a preventative measure to make the game safer. If the fans KNOW that there are cops undercover, it works as a deterrent to start shit at a game. It won't stop everyone, but it will stop some.

 

[STBR 27]

That is true, but one could argue that it isn't a sting as much as it is a preventative measure to make the game safer. If the fans KNOW that there are cops undercover, it works as a deterrent to start shit at a game. It won't stop everyone, but it will stop some.

Everyone in a 49er shirt will be labeled as a cop, but getting this report into the media was the biggest part. They really don't even have to actually have cops in 49er gear now.

 

[octagondd]

That is true, but one could argue that it isn't a sting as much as it is a preventative measure to make the game safer. If the fans KNOW that there are cops undercover, it works as a deterrent to start shit at a game. It won't stop everyone, but it will stop some.

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. It is not a sting precisely because they advertised it on a national level. It is a preventative, fear based measure which some people don't care for because they like to talk trash to opponents fans, and now fear they have to keep quiet. I think it will be a very good deterrent, and I also agree that a ticket and a "good fan" class is an appropriate punishment. Glad they are not banning people for good.

 

[SonnyCID]

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. It is not a sting precisely because they advertised it on a national level. It is a preventative, fear based measure which some people don't care for because they like to talk trash to opponents fans, and now fear they have to keep quiet. I think it will be a very good deterrent, and I also agree that a ticket and a "good fan" class is an appropriate punishment. Glad they are not banning people for good.

I dont care for it but it's not because I love to talk trash. I think it's a questionable use of resources. I've said several times in this thread that significantly more police presence should be there, IMO they should be uniformed because people are less likely to start something with uniformed police within earshot and fans can find them easier when you need them.

 

[octagondd]

I dont care for it but it's not because I love to talk trash. I think it's a questionable use of resources. I've said several times in this thread that significantly more police presence should be there, IMO they should be uniformed because people are less likely to start something with uniformed police within earshot and fans can find them easier when you need them.

I wasn't aiming this at you, but just a statement regarding troublemakers in general. I think people will think twice before ruining other people's experiences including those sitting around the trouble, due to this huge campaign to tell everyone they are hiding in plain sight. I get your point though, in that if they just have them all in uniform, then it may do the same thing. I am guessing they don't have enough manpower to have a presence around the entire stadium, and therefore a fear of the unknown tactic works better and more efficiently.

 

[gohusk]

I'm glad they're doing it. I was at the GB game last year and we left early after a couple of idiots wanted to get in a fight for no good reason. Right next to us there were some GB fans that came all the way from Montana to watch the game and they were totally cool. Didn't see them get harassed but it wasn't for a lack of drunken idiots looking for trouble.

There's hooliganism at every stadium and if things like this are going to get a handle on it then I'm all for it. I don't think expecting adults to actually act like adults and show a little class to people that probably came a long way to check out the game is too much to ask.

 

[TruHoxFan]

I think that any cop who does this and tries to incite the home crowd deserves to get the piss stomped out of them. If I, or anyone else for that matter, tried this we'd be arrested for inciting a riot or some other bullshit charge.
Now, before anybody goes off halfcocked on this, bear in mind that I said 'incite'. If they just act like normal fans and get razzed a bit for it, then all good. It all hinges on the cops' behavior in this.
While I, personally, think this is a chickenshit tactic if it causes just one person to stop and think and not cross the line, then it's a good thing.