Please rank these players . . .

[Yo Tee]

I don't agree with your thinking... the difference in offensive ability on the above list is relatively small, but the difference in defensive ability is relatively big.

There are better defensive players not on that list that I can always pick up. I can get a guy like Dwight Howard who defensively is arguably better than George and Butler. Or I can pick up a guy like Hassan Whiteside or Ruby Gobert or DeAndre Jordan to fill in the defensive side of things. I could even pick up someone line James Harden who has comparable defensive statistics to Butler or George.

 

[CitySushi]

There are better defensive players not on that list that I can always pick up. I can get a guy like Dwight Howard who defensively is arguably better than George and Butler. Or I can pick up a guy like Hassan Whiteside or Ruby Gobert or DeAndre Jordan to fill in the defensive side of things. I could even pick up someone line James Harden who has comparable defensive statistics to Butler or George.

 

[Yo Tee]

You do know that defense rarely ever turns up to a tangible stat like steals or blocks right?

Like it's insane to think that you're comparing defensive abilities of Butler and Thomas based on stats. I'm literally at a loss for words right now trying to convey how absurd that is.

You are acting like George and Butler are the only decent defensive guys that can be signed. There are BETTER defensive options out there. Given these four options, there is arguably one better shooter out there than IT and that's LeBron. There are a bunch of better defensive options than Paul George and Jimmy Butler. If given a choice between either George/Butler or pick someone else in the league, I'll take my chances with someone else in the league.

 

[trojanfan12]

I can get a guy like Dwight Howard who defensively is arguably better than George and Butler.

No he isn't. He can't defend the perimeter or the pick and roll like they can and he isn't even the rim protector that he used to be anymore.

 

[Yo Tee]

Player Comparison Finder: Jimmy Butler vs. James Harden | Basketball-Reference.com

Harden is practically better or they are at the same level in every statistic, offense and defense, than Butler aside from Offensive Rebounding. Harden is also much better than Butler when it comes to playoffs.

 

[trojanfan12]

Or I can pick up a guy like Hassan Whiteside or Ruby Gobert or DeAndre Jordan to fill in the defensive side of things.

None of these guys help as much defensively as you think. Yes, they are great rim protectors, but the game is played more from the perimeter now. None of them are going to do you any good when a team like the Warriors is dropping 3's on you or running a lot of pick and roll.

 

[CitySushi]

id def have IT last too

There just seems to be something off with Butler and George and their willingness to take responsbility as "the man"----

And- then their is Kyrie who is bat shit crazy (but wonderfully talented).

Kyrie isn't bat shit crazy. Please stop trying to do that just because the guy wanted a trade.

PG has always wanted to be the alpha. That hasn't been the issue. His Pacer teams have generally been on the below average side of talent, but has always put them in a position to succeed. That's pretty much all you can ask of a superstar player without another great player beside you.

Butler to me is a guy who's best served as a #2 on a good team. I love what he does and his skillset, but I think you'll see him thrive this year next to a guy like KAT who can relieve some pressure off of him. But the guy is a game changer on defense. Having a guy who can score 20+, and also lock up the best perimeter player on the other team is a foundational guy.

Irving I have a solid 3rd because he's just such a dynamic scorer he can affect the game in so many ways. I could argue having him above Butler too, if only because I think Kyrie was never utilized fully the last few years with Cleveland. He's a guy who's perfect in a pick and roll offense. If you combined him with say Cousins and just put specialists around them, that would be a crazy good team. But he's third because he's a defensive liability and he's still so/so with his willingness as a passer.

Thomas is only last because he's such a huge drop off defensively. As great of a scorer and facilitator as he is, he almost gives most of those points back defensively. It would be harder to scheme an offense and defense around him to get the most out of his talent. Well more so defense, offense I think he'd be great either way.

 

[CitySushi]

Player Comparison Finder: Jimmy Butler vs. James Harden | Basketball-Reference.com

Harden is practically better or they are at the same level in every statistic, offense and defense, than Butler aside from Offensive Rebounding. Harden is also much better than Butler when it comes to playoffs.

Wait.

Just for the record, and trying to determine if I should continue this conversation, do you genuinely believe Harden is in the same class defensively as Jimmy Butler? Or say very close?

 

[Yo Tee]

No he isn't. He can't defend the perimeter or the pick and roll like they can and he isn't even the rim protector that he used to be anymore.

12,7 rebounds per game says otherwise. 63% shooter who is also good for around 2 blocks per game and about 17-20 points per game. But if you see, I did say arguably.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Kyrie isn't bat shit crazy. Please stop trying to do that just because the guy wanted a trade.

PG has always wanted to be the alpha. That hasn't been the issue. His Pacer teams have generally been on the below average side of talent, but has always put them in a position to succeed. That's pretty much all you can ask of a superstar player without another great player beside you.

Butler to me is a guy who's best served as a #2 on a good team. I love what he does and his skillset, but I think you'll see him thrive this year next to a guy like KAT who can relieve some pressure off of him. But the guy is a game changer on defense. Having a guy who can score 20+, and also lock up the best perimeter player on the other team is a foundational guy.

Irving I have a solid 3rd because he's just such a dynamic scorer he can affect the game in so many ways. I could argue having him above Butler too, if only because I think Kyrie was never utilized fully the last few years with Cleveland. He's a guy who's perfect in a pick and roll offense. If you combined him with say Cousins and just put specialists around them, that would be a crazy good team. But he's third because he's a defensive liability and he's still so/so with his willingness as a passer.

Thomas is only last because he's such a huge drop off defensively. As great of a scorer and facilitator as he is, he almost gives most of those points back defensively. It would be harder to scheme an offense and defense around him to get the most out of his talent. Well more so defense, offense I think he'd be great either way.

I guess I was talking more about his contention that the world is flat- and unknown to us- not talking to his teammates during the playoffs.

Then the subject of conspiracy theories came up, and that’s when Irving expressed his belief that the Earth is indeed flat, and not round.

“Can you really think of us rotating around the sun, and all planets align, rotating in specific dates, being perpendicular with what’s going on with these planets and stuff like this?” Irving asked.

Irving went on to talk about how he believes that aliens exist and have visited Earth, that the moon landing was fake and that dinosaurs never existed. You can listen to the podcast on iTunes. I am not making any of this up.

“Everything that was particularly thrown in front of me [in school]...it was all a façade, something that they ultimately want me to believe in,” Irving said.

When asked about this in another interview later, Irving doubled down on his belief, saying that people should research the subject for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

 

[CitySushi]

I guess I was talking more about his contention that the world is flat- and unknown to us- not talking to his teammates during the playoffs.

Then the subject of conspiracy theories came up, and that’s when Irving expressed his belief that the Earth is indeed flat, and not round.

“Can you really think of us rotating around the sun, and all planets align, rotating in specific dates, being perpendicular with what’s going on with these planets and stuff like this?” Irving asked.

Irving went on to talk about how he believes that aliens exist and have visited Earth, that the moon landing was fake and that dinosaurs never existed. You can listen to the podcast on iTunes. I am not making any of this up.

“Everything that was particularly thrown in front of me [in school]...it was all a façade, something that they ultimately want me to believe in,” Irving said.

When asked about this in another interview later, Irving doubled down on his belief, saying that people should research the subject for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

Ok, yeah he's fucking nuts. LOL. Forgot about his flat earth theory.

 

[Yo Tee]

Wait.

Just for the record, and trying to determine if I should continue this conversation, do you genuinely believe Harden is in the same class defensively as Jimmy Butler? Or say very close?

In my opinion, James Harden is an all around better player than Jimmy Butler. Offensively and defensively. And if you can't have a respectable debate with someone who doesn't think exactly like you do, then do not continue this conversation.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ok, yeah he's fucking nuts. LOL. Forgot about his flat earth theory.

thats the half of it

that RJ and Frye podcast- Road Trippin- he goes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY down the rabbit hole.

just thank God that doesnt effect him on the court.

 

[CitySushi]

In my opinion, James Harden is an all around better player than Jimmy Butler. Offensively and defensively. And if you can't have a respectable debate with someone who doesn't think exactly like you do, then do not continue this conversation.

Well obviously Harden is the better player. That's factoring how bad Harden is on defense.

But the question was you said you could replace Butler defensively with Harden because they have similar statistics defensively. What I'm asking you, is do you believe Butler and Harden to be on a similar plain defensively?

 

[Yo Tee]

Well obviously Harden is the better player. That's factoring how bad Harden is on defense.

But the question was you said you could replace Butler defensively with Harden because they have similar statistics defensively. What I'm asking you, is do you believe Butler and Harden to be on a similar plain defensively?

I believe they are. Some aspects, one is better than the other, but Harden's offensive side makes me lean more towards choosing Harden over Butler. I would pick Harden over Butler in almost any scenario given. When looking at them play, Butler has the fundamentals while Harden doesn't. When looking statistically, rebounding and blocking is a push between the two, other than that, Harden is statistically better in every other category. It depends on whether you are a statistics guy or a fundamentals guy.

 

[trojanfan12]

12,7 rebounds per game says otherwise. 63% shooter who is also good for around 2 blocks per game and about 17-20 points per game. But if you see, I did say arguably.

Uh, those rebounds, points and shooting percentage have nothing to do with his ability to defend the perimeter of the pick and roll.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ok, yeah he's fucking nuts. LOL. Forgot about his flat earth theory.

yah...

according to Kyrie dinosaurs never existed, and aliens live among us like men in black....

 

[CitySushi]

Uh, those rebounds, points and shooting percentage have nothing to do with his ability to defend the perimeter of the pick and roll.

I have a feeling it'll be hard explaining the difference between statistical output and defensive ability to this guy. Seems like a fantasy basketball guy 100%.

 

[Yo Tee]

Uh, those rebounds, points and shooting percentage have nothing to do with his ability to defend the perimeter of the pick and roll.

The point is, there are arguably better options for defense than George and Butler.

 

[gordontrue]

George...

Butler...

Irving...

Thomas....

Agree with this