Pirates' Starting Rotation

[thecrow124]

Seems logical, Mags.

McPherson seems like the best option, since he is the best pitcher now, and has the most upside. I think he has an Aaron Harang/Gavin Floyd upside, he just translates and adjusts well to each new level.

I'm interested in Bryan Morris. Some projection systems hate him, some like him a lot, I want to see how he passes the eye test when watching him pitch on a regular basis.

I think I learned everything I need to know about Morris last season when he continually did not get promoted even though his numbers would make you think he should. Then when he was up in September he was almost never used. I don't think Hurdle thinks much of him at all.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think I learned everything I need to know about Morris last season when he continually did not get promoted even though his numbers would make you think he should. Then when he was up in September he was almost never used. I don't think Hurdle thinks much of him at all.

I'm not altogether sure that's a knock on him.

 

[thecrow124]

I'm not altogether sure that's a knock on him.

Fair enough

 

[sychmd]

of the relievers still in camp, what relievers still have options?

with watson being down a bit, he seemed to be one of the key late inning guys with grilli, melancon, and hughes.

assuming starters are burnett, wandy, mcd, mcp, karstens/leroux/sanchez.
that leaves the following candidates for other 4 BP spots:
watson, leroux/karstens non starter, morris, reid, zagurski, wilson, irwin, johnson, mazzaro, waldrop.

i am assuming mcp beats out locke and locke goes to AAA to be a starter.
it would be great to be able to keep the ones with no options on the mlb team and send the ones with options down. this way we have depth for injuries, but assuming they all have potential to perform now, they are good trade pieces to package together to get a bat from a team deep with SS or C hitters and needs arms. when cole comes up, we will be able to send a 'starter' and 1 or 2 BP arms in a package for a SS or C who can play at the MLB level this year or esp next year.

 

[thedddd]

of the relievers still in camp, what relievers still have options?
with watson being down a bit, he seemed to be one of the key late inning guys with grilli, melancon, and hughes.

assuming starters are burnett, wandy, mcd, mcp, karstens/leroux/sanchez.
that leaves the following candidates for other 4 BP spots:
watson, leroux/karstens non starter, morris, reid, zagurski, wilson, irwin, johnson, mazzaro, waldrop.

i am assuming mcp beats out locke and locke goes to AAA to be a starter.
it would be great to be able to keep the ones with no options on the mlb team and send the ones with options down. this way we have depth for injuries, but assuming they all have potential to perform now, they are good trade pieces to package together to get a bat from a team deep with SS or C hitters and needs arms. when cole comes up, we will be able to send a 'starter' and 1 or 2 BP arms in a package for a SS or C who can play at the MLB level this year or esp next year.

Put this in another thread in the past: The Pirates & Minor League Options | A Pittsburgh Pirates Blog probably the best list.

Leroux and Morris don't have options. I doubt Gomez and Mazzaro make the team.

 

[magnumo]

of the relievers still in camp, what relievers still have options?

Pirates Prospects has a great reference page which shows option status of every player on the 40-man roster:

Pirates Prospects » Pittsburgh Pirates 2013 40-Man Payroll Projection

Obviously, NRI guys in camp on minor league contracts are not listed. Some of those guys (e.g., J. Sanchez) have "out" clauses if they don't make the major league roster by late in March.

At any rate, I identified Leroux and Morris in my projected bullpen partly because they're out of options. (Hughes and Watson both have options remaining.) The only other pitcher who is on the 40-man roster AND is "on the bubble" without remaining options is Jeanmar Gomez..... but I don't think he's a bullpen candidate anyway. I don't know whether Zagurski (NRI) has an out clause, but I picked him as a second lefty for the bullpen.

 

[thedddd]

Mags....ha posted the basic same though at the same time!

And the link you have is MUCH better with better details.

 

[sychmd]

thanks for the links.
looks like the biggest issues/decisions are:
1. can mcp be our 4th starter (i think yes)
1. will sanchez be a starter that we can keep or flip later on when cole comes up (yes)
2. can locke be a reliable starter at the beginning of the year(not yet, starts at AAA)
3. will karstens be healthy and stretched enough to start the year in the rotation if locke cant or be our long reliever for the periodic dud our starters will lay(long relief)

thus BP = grilli, melancon, hughes, morris, leroux, karstens, lefty heat(wilson/zagurski)

 

[magnumo]

Mags....ha posted the basic same though at the same time!

And the link you have is MUCH better with better details.

Yeah..... I saw your post after I posted.

I like the Pirates' Prospects spread sheet because it shows a lot of facts in a relatively small space.

 

[magnumo]

thanks for the links.
looks like the biggest issues/decisions are:
1. can mcp be our 4th starter (i think yes)
1. will sanchez be a starter that we can keep or flip later on when cole comes up (yes)
2. can locke be a reliable starter at the beginning of the year(not yet, starts at AAA)
3. will karstens be healthy and stretched enough to start the year in the rotation if locke cant or be our long reliever for the periodic dud our starters will lay(long relief)

thus BP = grilli, melancon, hughes, morris, leroux, karstens, lefty heat(wilson/zagurski)

Noticed that you included Hughes but left Watson out of your BP. Both Hughes and Watson have options, but everything I've read indicates that (barring injuries) both should have spots in the 2013 bullpen..... with Watson as the primary lefty.

I figured that they might take Zagurski ahead of Wilson for a couple of reasons. First, Wilson has options remaining. Second, I've read that they haven't given up on Wilson as a starter..... so they might want to start him out in the rotation at Indy. On the other hand, Zagurski is on a minor league contract..... so they'd need to bump someone off the 40-man roster to make room for him.

At one point, I liked the signing of Jonathan Sanchez as both starting depth and a potential bullpen lefty. However, over the past day or two, some pretty emphatic quotes from Sanchez have been reported, indicating that he wants to be a starter. So, I'm guessing that he'll exercise his out clause if he doesn't make the Pirates' rotation. Since Sanchez also is on a minor league contract, his making the team would bump someone off the 40-man roster, as well.

A lot can happen over the next couple of weeks. It's kinda fun to speculate, but things should become clearer as we get closer to opening day. Heck..... it's possible that NH could pull off some kind of trade involving pitchers before the season starts..... and/or we may see some injuries. In fact, Watson's absence from game activity for so long (since late February) with "mechanical issues" has me wondering whether he has some kind of unpublicized injury.

 

[thecrow124]

Watson's mechanical issues, if I were guessing, would be the fact that he is the slowest pitcher to home plate that I have ever seen. I saw Ryan Braun steal second base off of him and he probably could have stole it standing up.

 

[magnumo]

Watson's mechanical issues, if I were guessing, would be the fact that he is the slowest pitcher to home plate that I have ever seen. I saw Ryan Braun steal second base off of him and he probably could have stole it standing up.

I wasn't aware that Watson was that slow to the plate. (I don't get to see the Pirates much, either in person or on TV.) Here's hoping that his work on "mechanical issues' has helped that.

By the way, an article in today's Trib indicates that Watson also has been nursing an injury..... a sore lat muscle. See under the heading "Planet of the Aches" in this article:

Blue Jays manager: Snider's path could mirror Bautista's | TribLIVE

Apparently, Watson is scheduled to get back into game action today.

 

[sychmd]

i left watson out because no game action since feb.
if it was just holding runners, that shouldnt keep him out, in fact, bring him in games with runners on base and make him practice.
shouldnt be that disruptive to force a lack of game exposure. if it is that bad that he isnt in spring games, i cant imagine it getting much better in 2 weeks, sp put him in AAA to work on it.

 

[thedddd]

Watson starting in AAA makes sense.

The shame after the Twins outing that Cole won't be pitching in the majors until June. Lets hope the rotation holds out until then, mainly Karstens staying healthy enough and as for Locke I missed most of his outings but his numbers are better than McPherson's during the spring.

So I don't want to judge but is McPherson just looking better and is luck involved to help Locke's numbers?

 

[magnumo]

A few pitching developments:

- Cole and Irwin were cut, ending any speculation that either could open in the Pirates' starting rotation.

- Cole was described in various places as "disappointed," "disgruntled," and "upset" by his demotion..... although he also was quoted as stating, "I sort of knew [this was coming]." I was not surprised by his understandable disappointment. However, I DID find the following lack of congruence to be a little disconcerting: Huntington was quoted in several media sources as stating that Cole has several things to work on..... while Cole was quoted as follows: "They didn't really give me anything specific [to work on]. They give you the same old stuff: Just keep doing what you're doing, you'll tell us when you're ready." I hope Cole's disappointment does not impede his development. This article on the Pirates' page at MLB.com is the most comprehensive report I've read:

Pirates trim spring roster by six, including Cole | pirates.com: News

- Candidates for the 5th rotation spot continue to be McPherson, Locke, Sanchez, and Gomez. Locke pitched well against the Yankees, improving his stock. It remains to be seen whether Karstens will be ready in time to open the season in the rotation. So..... it remains to be seen whether we'll need one or two of the four candidates to step up.

- There were no surprises among the other pitchers in today's cuts (Brown, Waldrop, and Johnson). I had been rooting for Kris Johnson as a potential "late bloomer," but apparently he didn't show enough to remain in big league camp.

- The lefty reliever situation remains in flux. Tony Watson returned to action, pitching one inning in a Class A game. He reportedly was pain-free..... but wasn't effective, giving up 3 hits and a walk on 23 pitches. My view remains that he's a lock for the bullpen IF he's healthy. Mike Zagurski's stock probably has fallen (since he's given up home runs in his last two apparances) while Justin Wilson's stock has risen (due to effective pitching and improved control). Odds are that the Pirates will open with two lefties in the pen (although that's not a sure thing, by any means). Seems that the most likely lefty candidates are Watson, Zagurski, and Wilson..... with Locke and Sanchez as long shots for the bullpen.

 

[magnumo]

Rotation: Good to see another decent start out of McDonald today.

Bullpen: Although Morris was a little shaky at the end, Grilli, Melancon, and Leroux all pitched well in their one-inning stints.

 

[HammerDown]

 

[magnumo]

Yeah..... Fear's stock took a hit today. Gotta hope that one of these guys (McPherson, Locke, Sanchez, Gomez) steps up over the next 10 days or so. It would be a shame to see the 5th rotation spot go to the "least bad" performer.

 

[magnumo]

It will be interesting to see if Jonathan Sanchez's good performance today will win him a spot on the roster and/or in the rotation. He has the earliest out clause, which is only 3 days away on Sunday, 3/24..... which means that he won't get another start or any game action prior to his decision day.

With McPherson not doing well in his last couple of starts, being short on AAA experience, and having an option left, I gotta feeling that he's out of the competition and will be optioned to Indy in the next round of cuts.

Jeanmar Gomez is scheduled to start tomorrow in his final audition. He's on the 40-man roster but is out of options. Unless he's "lights out" tomorrow, I don't see him having much of a chance at a rotation slot.

We may be down to Sanchez and Locke for the 5th spot. On the other hand, Karstens hasn't really been stretched out yet..... and it's getting late..... so maybe we'll need two guys beyond Burnett, Rodriguez, and McDonald.

 

[thedddd]

Well the good news if Sanchez makes it we know he will almost definitely take Gomez's spot on the 40 man roster.