Pirates' Starting Rotation

[element1286]

My disdain for Huntington is now at an alltime high. He cuts Morris, keeps Gomez and Wilson in the bullpen. There is no reason Wilson should not be starting he is a better oprion than Sanchez and Locke. There is no reason Morris should not be in the bullpen. The trade for McDonald was and is idiotic. Keeping Inge is just as stupid. While I am at it, if you are trying to win, you keep Hanrahan, let him walk after the season, or trade him for 1 prospect that is going to play major league baseball instead of 4 maybe's.

I just don't think he has any idea how to run an organization and his 2 little kronies should have been gone years ago and I honestly hope that they are his undoing in Pittsburgh. It is time for a change at the top to someone that knows what they are doing.

I don't know, crow. Wilson has seems like a very typical reliever to me. He never was able to go deep into games as starter, because he always got his pitch count high by walking guys. And it seems like his stuff plays really well out of the bullpen, reaching the high 90's as a lefty.

I think he is perfect as a potential late inning reliever.

 

[thedddd]

My only hope with the rotation right now is that Wandy, Burnett and McDonald hold out long enough for Morton and Liriano to come back. Locke if he can go 5/6 every 5th day thats all we can hope for.
Sanchez lets hope hope on weeks not needed his spot gets skipped.

Have a bad feeling the bullpen will be taxed very hard early in this season so Wilson will get his innings along with Leroux and Gomez.

 

[element1286]

My only hope with the rotation right now is that Wandy, Burnett and McDonald hold out long enough for Morton and Liriano to come back. Locke if he can go 5/6 every 5th day thats all we can hope for.
Sanchez lets hope hope on weeks not needed his spot gets skipped.

Have a bad feeling the bullpen will be taxed very hard early in this season so Wilson will get his innings along with Leroux and Gomez.

Agreed, I'd like to see guys used more as multiple innning relievers, this team has multiple guys that could be used that way, although I don't think they will be.

 

[smokeyburgess]

The way the pitching staff look right now, you might be wishing the Pirates had kept Correia. Despite what the Correia-bashers said last year, his 12 wins wasn't bad FOR A FOURTH/FIFTH STARTER. I'd be surprised if any back-of-the-rotation pitcher does as well for the Bucs this year.

 

[magnumo]

Here we are in mid-April..... and the Pirates are USING their starting pitching depth.

The current rotation:
Burnett
Irwin (replacing Rodriguez)
McDonald
Sanchez (replacing Liriano)
Locke (replacing Karstens)

Hopefully, Rodriguez will be back to take his next turn, giving Irwin more time to develop back at Indy..... and hopefully, McDonald will get himself straightened out against the Cards tomorrow.

In other rotation news: It's being reported that Liriano is starting his rehab assignment.... meaning that he'll come off the DL in mid-May at the latest (30 days max for pitchers on a rehab assignment).

Unfortunately, McPherson just went ON the DL at Indy, reportedly with pain in his forearm. Hopefully, he will NOT need TJ surgery. (Forearm pain is often an indicator of the need for TJ.)

Note to smokey: I just checked the Twins' pitching stats..... and discovered that Correia is their leading starter, with a 3.14 ERA in two quality starts. Unfortunately, he hasn't won yet, and has only 3 K's in 14-1/3 innings. I remain happy that the Pirates have moved on.

 

[Illinest]

McPherson's forearm pain was inevitable. There had to be something wrong with him.

Not looking forward to Liriano to be honest. We really need Wandy to come back and give us 30+ starts this year.

Irwin looked okay. I like his mix of pitches better than that of certain other guys we've auditioned. His fastball sucks but the cutter induces weak contact and the curve induces swing and misses. I think he could get by pretty well against right-handed hitters by just having good command. Against lefties I'm not so sure. The announcers said that he has a changeup but I didn't get the impression that he can use it to great effect. He'll probably need to get good with his changeup in addition to maintaining good command of his arsenal if he wants to be more than a depth starter.
On the other hand if he does accomplish those goals I could see him being more than a 5. He could be pretty solid I think. I like him.

 

[sychmd]

also, capps in minors and hanrahan is ERA 10+.

maholm is having a great start to the year. still ok with him being gone.

we definitely need wandy for a steady every 5th day presence. cole in june will help as well.i think mcd gets it if he can just be ready in the 1st inning.

with burnett, wandy, mcD, and cole we just need one of locke, liriano, sanchez, karstens, irwin, mcp to be a reliable innings eater to keep us in games, hold runners and bunt when needed.(bummed yesterday when irwin couldnt execute the bunt) the little things make a big difference and allow the big things to happen.

 

[magnumo]

News on the starting rotation front:

- McPherson has been shut down for two weeks (no throwing at all) and has received an injection for his forearm pain.

- Liriano had a good first rehab start..... three scoreless innings with 6 K's.

- McDonald's velocity was off last night, leading to speculation that he has some kind of arm injury.

It has been simply amazing that the Pirates' starting depth has evaporated so quickly. Predictably, as the offense has awakened, our pitching has plummeted. I fervently hope that Sanchez can put up a good start tonight..... and that Wandy can come back strong for his next turn.

 

[Darkstone42]

News on the starting rotation front:

- McPherson has been shut down for two weeks (no throwing at all) and has received an injection for his forearm pain.

- Liriano had a good first rehab start..... three scoreless innings with 6 K's.

- McDonald's velocity was off last night, leading to speculation that he has some kind of arm injury.

It has been simply amazing that the Pirates' starting depth has evaporated so quickly. Predictably, as the offense has awakened, our pitching has plummeted. I fervently hope that Sanchez can put up a good start tonight..... and that Wandy can come back strong for his next turn.

It really is a shame. McPherson looked good early in sprint training, McDonald looked at least capable in his first two starts before this potential injury and implosion, and we had to skip a Wandy start and lose him halfway through a game even though he's probably our steadiest starter.

It's a good thing we had that depth, though, because the bad luck and injury bug which has befallen this team would have otherwise already buried us.

 

[sychmd]

hopefully morris' showing last nite was who he can be this year.
it will be interesting to see how much of irwin was the jitters vs not ready yet. we will see his mental makeup if he comes out next time(if there is a next time) and is a bulldog and shows much better.

i like gomez and cant wait till cole comes up.
i still believe sanchez will be above average, but he will always drop in a clunker periodically. hurdle just has to recognize those nights very early and limit the damage, but i think other nites he can go 8 and 3H 2BB 1R outings.

will locke be reliable and karstens be healthy for the rest of the year. we need some maturity and consistency from someone else not named burnett and wandy.

 

[magnumo]

With Liriano and Morton (and Contreras) having started their rehab assignments, help is on the way for the rotation. Liriano should be ready to make a start for the Pirates by May 5 and Morton by May 8..... which generates some thoughts and questions:

1. Are McDonald, Sanchez, and Locke beginning to look over their shoulders? Since Locke has been mediocre and has options remaining, he likely will be sent down when Liriano is ready. Ideally, both McDonald and Sanchez will improve..... and will make the decision more difficult when Morton returns.

2. With McDonald's psyche as fragile as it appears to be..... will the impending return of both Liriano and Morton destroy his confidence completely? Tonight's start may give us a signal about that.

3. Since neither Sanchez nor McDonald can be optioned..... and since neither seems suited for the bullpen..... what will happen to whichever one is removed from the rotation? Seems there might be an opportunity for NH to trade a starter, although neither Sanchez nor McDonald is likely to bring much value in return.

4. What's going on with Karstens? It's been reported that he got a second opinion (from an LA doc)..... and says that now he knows what's wrong..... but hasn't revealed what that is. At any rate, he doesn't seem close to returning.

5. When will Cole be ready? Although not dominating, he's doing OK at Indy. Meanwhile, both Andy Oliver and Kris Johnson are pitching well out of the Indianapolis rotation. (Note: Phil Irwin hasn't pitched for Indy since his spot start for the Bucs on 4/14. Hope he's not hurt.)

 

[Etrius24]

Mags

as you pointed out in your post to me... Contreras is a relief pitcher.. The way you worded post #111 does not indicate this. You said and I quote:

"With Liriano and Morton (and Contreras) having started their rehab assignments, help is on the way for the rotation."

Contreras being a relief pitcher you should have worded this differently! You could have worded it to say help was on the way for the rotation and bullpen or left Contreras out of the sentence about help for the rotation.

I was not going to mention this to you, but you seemed adamant to point it out to me in another thread about Contreras being a Relief pitcher

Cheers

 

[thecrow124]

Mags

as you pointed out in your post to me... Contreras is a relief pitcher.. The way you worded post #111 does not indicate this. You said and I quote:

"With Liriano and Morton (and Contreras) having started their rehab assignments, help is on the way for the rotation."

Contreras being a relief pitcher you should have worded this differently! You could have worded it to say help was on the way for the rotation and bullpen or left Contreras out of the sentence about help for the rotation.

I was not going to mention this to you, but you seemed adamant to point it out to me in another thread about Contreras being a Relief pitcher

Cheers

Actually the way mags worded it is correct. The subject of the sentence being Liriano and Morton are going to be helping the rotation. Contreras' name is in parentheses thus limiting him not to the point of the sentence, but as an afterthought to the overall generality.....that he was begning rehab.

 

[Etrius24]

Actually it is not..

We could have a lengthy discussion as to why it is not if you would like?

Basically you can de-emphasize something with Parenthesis or you can use Parenthesis to include additional information..But of course to be used properly the material in the parenthesis has to coincide with the original point of the sentence.

For example:

Kevin Bacon, ( who starred in Footloose. ) recently had a birthday.

Starring in footloose is not the point of the sentence so it is de-emphasized. This is one reason why it is in parenthesis. The other is because we are adding additional information. But this is okay since Kevin Bacon did actually star in that movie and it was a reference point the reader might identify with or remember.

This is not at all what Mags did with his sentence where he was talking about starting pitchers, and put Contreras in parenthesis.

To give you another example let's use another well known movie with actors we have all heard of. Maybe the Shawshank Redemption? As we all know Morgan freeman and Tim Robbins were the stars of that movie. If we were to talk about that movie and the star actors in it we could say:

Great acting by Freeman and Robbins ( and Kevin Bacon ) are what made the shawshank redemption a truly great movie!

Problem is that Kevin bacon is not in this movie. And Contreras is not a starting pitcher!

Kevin bacon is a great actor and Contreras did start his rehab assignment.. but neither fit into these sentences. Kevin bacon did not help make the Shawshank Redemption a great Movie and Contreras will not provide help for the Pirates starting rotation.

De-emphasizing something with the use of parenthesis only works in these cases if the examples given fit into the categories of the premise of their sentences.

But wow, thanks for the great discussion on the use of Parenthesis.

 

[magnumo]

Mags

as you pointed out in your post to me... Contreras is a relief pitcher.. The way you worded post #111 does not indicate this. You said and I quote:

"With Liriano and Morton (and Contreras) having started their rehab assignments, help is on the way for the rotation."

Contreras being a relief pitcher you should have worded this differently! You could have worded it to say help was on the way for the rotation and bullpen or left Contreras out of the sentence about help for the rotation.

I was not going to mention this to you, but you seemed adamant to point it out to me in another thread about Contreras being a Relief pitcher

Cheers

The fact that Contreras is a relief pitcher is the very reason I put his name in parentheses in that sentence.

I suspect all OTHER readers (except for you) understood that.

 

[sychmd]

it was confusing, maybe not be letter of grammar, but by initial glance, but like the block/charge in basketball, a non call.
but between you 2, nothing is a non call, but most really should be

 

[Etrius24]

Mags

You might well suspect a lot of things...But it does not change the fact that it was done so in error!

Sure it is a minor thing to pick at. But you made a mistake, be a man and own up to it.

The reason you put Contreras in Parenthesis does not matter. If it was done incorrectly!

Did you even bother to read the explanation I gave to you as to why it was incorrect? Did you look at the examples I gave to make it clear how the Parenthesis should be used? Did you look at how you used them? Did you even try to understand why this was incorrect?

Do we have a new rule now where you can put whatever you want in Parenthesis and it is off limits from being criticized because it is in Parenthesis? LMAO?

Mags rules of Parenthesis?

 

[Etrius24]

Sychmd...

Could not agree with you more..

 

[Etrius24]

In the sense that Correcting every post SHOULD not be necessary.

 

[thedddd]

I hope this is the last straw for Sanchez!

He didn't even get an out tonight, totally pathetic.