Pirates' Starting Rotation

[sychmd]

Super two and the extra year of control really only matter to small market teams. Players like Trout, Harper and Strassburg will almost assuredly be extended by their own teams as long as they perform as expected and don't get hurt. Much like McCutchen was before last season, even though he would not have been Super 2 eligible.

Neil Walker is the only significant player we currently have that it is meaningful to. He got a September call-up and then started the next season at AAA. At the time he was going to become the super utility guy for the Pirates, then a need arose at 2B and he has hit enough to keep his spot and has built himself into a good defender at the position. Walker isn't really a good fit for an extension because he is under team control through his age 31 season and was hurt at the end of last season. Past that season it is entirely possible that the Pirates let him walk depending on the development of our minor leaguers.

Your Cole scenarios would be correct. However, if the Pirates feel they can compete, it would actually be in their best interrest to have Cole in the rotation from day 1. Personally I think they are a long way off from being competitive so would have no problem keeping Cole in AAA all year and starting 2014 with Cole and Taillon in AAA then bringing them up together in June 2015. However, this could be a make or break year for NH and we could see both by the end of this year.

thanks

 

[Etrius24]

Just this season. Long term he has the upside of a true #1.

I sure as hell this pans out... a lot is riding on his arm...Well there are a couple of other kids that have bright futures.. but This kid will be up with the big league club at some point this season so he is the first of the bunch that may contribute...If he can really get it done on the mound he may make this team a wild card contender down the stretch ... Extra pitching help for the rotation in the second half is something every team needs.

 

[magnumo]

It's been just over a week.....

.....since the pitchers started throwing in camp. Obviously, it remains too early to scope out exactly what the rotation will look like to start the season. However, barring injuries, Burnett, Rodriguez, and McDonald seem to be locks (although I expect McDonald to be on a somewhat short leash).

Relevant news which has emerged:

- Liriano is expected to miss the first month of the season, more or less, which opens a spot in the rotation.

- Karstens has a sore shoulder, which COULD open a second spot in the rotation..... assuming that a healthy Karstens probably would have been in the rotation.

- It has been reported that Jonathan Sanchez looked very impressive in his early workouts. Perhaps that has increased his chances (of opening the season in the rotation).

- Cole is slated to open in AAA, regardless of how he does this spring.

- Taillon and Leroux are slated to start for Team Canada in the first round of the WBC..... Taillon against Team USA and Leroux against Team Mexico. It has been reported that Taillon is scheduled to open the season in Altoona, regardless of how he does in Spring Training or how he performs for Team Canada. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see how both Taillon and Leroux perform in the WBC..... and whether Leroux's performance will make any difference to his chances of breaking camp with the Pirates (most likely in the bullpen).

At any rate, it will be interesting to see who steps up. Seems to me that Locke, McPherson, and Sanchez are the most likely candidates to fill out the rotation..... but there's a whole list of other guys waiting in the wings, including Gomez, Leroux, Oliver, Johnson, and Mazzaro.

 

[thedddd]

.....since the pitchers started throwing in camp. Obviously, it remains too early to scope out exactly what the rotation will look like to start the season. However, barring injuries, Burnett, Rodriguez, and McDonald seem to be locks (although I expect McDonald to be on a somewhat short leash).

Relevant news which has emerged:

- Liriano is expected to miss the first month of the season, more or less, which opens a spot in the rotation.

- Karstens has a sore shoulder, which COULD open a second spot in the rotation..... assuming that a healthy Karstens probably would have been in the rotation.

- It has been reported that Jonathan Sanchez looked very impressive in his early workouts. Perhaps that has increased his chances (of opening the season in the rotation).

- Cole is slated to open in AAA, regardless of how he does this spring.

- Taillon and Leroux are slated to start for Team Canada in the first round of the WBC..... Taillon against Team USA and Leroux against Team Mexico. It has been reported that Taillon is scheduled to open the season in Altoona, regardless of how he does in Spring Training or how he performs for Team Canada. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see how both Taillon and Leroux perform in the WBC..... and whether Leroux's performance will make any difference to his chances of breaking camp with the Pirates (most likely in the bullpen).

At any rate, it will be interesting to see who steps up. Seems to me that Locke, McPherson, and Sanchez are the most likely candidates to fill out the rotation..... but there's a whole list of other guys waiting in the wings, including Gomez, Leroux, Oliver, Johnson, and Mazzaro.

Gee lets see the only certain things in life....taxes, death, Pirates losing season and Karstens is hurt.

 

[thedddd]

Seriosly thought thanks for the info that will be interesting to see how they do for team canada!

 

[element1286]

Agreed about Taillon, only reason I'm going to watch any of the WBC.

 

[magnumo]

Good news on McPherson..... recovered from his biceps tendinitis. I don't know why, but I have a feeling that he's going to be an effective starter for the Pirates.

McPherson recovered from biceps tendinitis | pirates.com: News

 

[magnumo]

Cole and Taillon both looked good in the Pirates' scrimmage yesterday.

Today, Locke looked good in the first spring training game, with 3 scoreless innings.

Heck, the pitchers are SUPPOSED to be ahead of the hitters at the start of spring training, but it's still good to see the pitchers (especially the starters) doing well.

 

[magnumo]

McDonald and Sanchez continued the string of good performances by Pirate starting candidates in yesterday's win against the Braves. Seems to me that McDonald is a real key..... to the rotation and to the Pirates' season. If he can find and sustain the good J-Mac from last year's first half, he'll go a long way toward making the Pirates competitive.

 

[HammerDown]

This could be interesting for you guys.

Pirates To Sign Jose Contreras: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

[magnumo]

This could be interesting for you guys.

Pirates To Sign Jose Contreras: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Interesting, yes (and discussed in the NRI thread), but Contreras is not a candidate for the Pirates' starting rotation.

 

[magnumo]

Although the Pirates lost to Minnesota today, McPherson continued the string of strong opening performances by candidates for the Pirates' rotation (as long as we don't count Jeanmar Gomez as a serious candidate). By now, I'm guessing there's a friendly competition going on, with no one wanting to be the first to give up a run. Here's hoping that Wandy continues the string tomorrow.....

 

[Darkstone42]

Although the Pirates lost to Minnesota today, McPherson continued the string of strong opening performances by candidates for the Pirates' rotation (as long as we don't count Jeanmar Gomez as a serious candidate). By now, I'm guessing there's a friendly competition going on, with no one wanting to be the first to give up a run. Here's hoping that Wandy continues the string tomorrow.....

They can go ahead and keep playing that game right through the season, please.

 

[magnumo]

The streak (of scoreless performances by candidates for the Pirates' rotation) ended when both Burnett and Rodriguez were scored on yesterday. However, it's notable that Burnett threw only fastballs and changeups (no breaking balls) and was victimized by poor defense.

Side note: I had shared in a previous post that Taillon and Leroux were both scheduled to start for Team Canada in the upcoming WBC, Taillon against Team USA and Leroux against Team Mexico. However, a new article confirms Leroux but indicates that Taillon is not starting in the first round. I wonder if there's any significance to that. There's no mention in the article about the Pirates influencing the decision.

Canada names trio of starters for World Baseball Classic

 

[element1286]

I'd still like to see Taillon pitch against the US. I'm sure the Pirates had some influence.

 

[magnumo]

These last few games, it appears that our pitching has gone to a hot place in a handbasket. Well, it's still very early in spring training. These games don't mean a bloody thang!

(Nevertheless, it would feel better if the Pirates hadn't lost 5 games in a row, counting both split squad losses from today.)

 

[sychmd]

besides the 15 walk game, pitchers building strength, throwing fastballs, and throwing strikes.
fielding hasnt helped our pitchers it seems.
except for karstens, no injuries is probably the best news.

if we can go in with our top 5 selected on performance and not who is left, that would be great. we always have liriano and morton as re-enforcements once the we get thru the first months schedule and are playing daily, then cole on whatever magical date in june/july.

if we can have a mid july staff of
1. burnett durable, steady, does what is necessary for a win.
2. McDonald - really turns it on this year, aggressive, ball down, head in the game
3. cole - overpowering and confident
4. wandy - steady and reliable
5. liriano/sanchez - one of them grabs the second chance they got and returns to overpowering form

2014:
1. Cole
2. McD
3. Liriano/Sanchez
4. Wandy/Burnett - or if they are traded, Morton, Locke, or McPherson
5. Taillon comes up and gets acclimated

2015
1. Cole
2. McD
3. Taillon
4. McP/Locke
5. Heredia

 

[magnumo]

Been almost two weeks since my last update in this thread..... so here we go:

#1 Burnett seems to be rounding into form and has been announced as the Bucs' opening day starter. No surprise there.

#2 Rodriguez pitched well in his first game for the Dominican in the WBC. (I'm kinda surprised that Wandy was NOT scheduled to start against the USA tonight.) He's penciled in to start the second game of the regular season for the Pirates. No surprise there, either.

#3 McDonald has been up and down, but was pretty good in his latest spring start. He seems likely to begin the season in the #3 slot.

Reports over the past few days indicate that Karstens seems to be recovering from his latest injury and he remains on schedule to open the season in the rotation, either at #4 or #5. At this point, I'm guessing #5 to give him a few more days to get into shape.

It's obvious that Liriano will NOT be ready to open the season, and the team continues to insist that Cole will start the season at Indy. (I agree with that decision.)

Based upon who's been getting starts/innings during Spring Training so far, it appears that the candidates for the one remaining open slot in the rotation are Locke, Sanchez, McPherson, and Gomez. Gomez has been terrible, Sanchez has been bad, and Locke has been mediocre..... leaving McPherson as the most effective to date.

I'm guessing that Gomez continues to be given opportunities because he's out of options. With Sanchez on a minor league contract with an out clause, the team continues to give him opportunities, as well, so that they can make a timely decision about whether to keep him. Both Locke and McPherson have options remaining, meaning that either or both could be sent to AAA. I hope that DOESN'T work against them. I want to see the most effective guy open the season in the rotation..... and right now, that's McPherson. (Needless to say, a lot can happen over the next couple of weeks.)

One guy who's probably moved up the queue a bit is Phil Irwin. He's been effective everywhere he's pitched in the minors (as well as in Spring Training), but he's short on AAA experience and has 3 options remaining..... so he's a VERY long shot. Other potential candidates (e.g., Leroux, Johnson, Wilson) are NOT being stretched out, so I believe they can be counted out (of the rotation mix), at least to start the season. Wilson has options remaining and Johnson is on a minor league contract. Leroux is out of options..... perhaps that will give him a boost toward a spot in the bullpen. (Same holds true for Bryan Morris.)

At any rate, I currently see the opening day pitching staff as:

Rotation: Burnett, Rodriguez, McDonald, McPherson, Karstens
Bullpen: Grilli, Melancon, Watson, Hughes, Leroux, Morris, Zagurski

Even if that predicton proves accurate, changes are inevitable even without additional injuries..... since Liriano, Morton, and Contreras are rehabbing and Cole is expected to debut by mid-season.

 

[element1286]

Seems logical, Mags.

McPherson seems like the best option, since he is the best pitcher now, and has the most upside. I think he has an Aaron Harang/Gavin Floyd upside, he just translates and adjusts well to each new level.

I'm interested in Bryan Morris. Some projection systems hate him, some like him a lot, I want to see how he passes the eye test when watching him pitch on a regular basis.

 

[magnumo]

Well..... the situation just got a little more problematic (in a good way), since both Jonathan Sanchez and Jeanmar Gomez pitched pretty well in 3-inning stints in today's game against Houston. (But then again, it IS Houston.)

In other news about starters, Huntington stated today that the recently-cut Andy Oliver will be in the rotation at Indianapolis.

Bucs option Oliver, Sanchez to Triple-A Indianapolis | pirates.com: News

Seems to me that Cole and Irwin are sure things to be in the Indy rotation, as well. So..... the final two slots at Indy may be filled by guys who don't make the Pirates' rotation..... although I'm reminded that Gomez is out of options and J. Sanchez has an "out" clause if he doesn't make the Pirates..... so there's a good chance that neither will be in the Indy rotation. By the way, Leroux is out of options, so he isn't a candidate for the Indy rotation, either. Justin Wilson and Pimentel DO have options remaining..... and Kris Johnson and Vin Mazzaro remain in camp on minor league contracts.

(And don't forget Liriano and Morton in rehab. Pirate starting depth continues to look good..... let's just hope the rotation performs.)