PFF Says Mahomes Is 6th Best QB In The NFL

[flyerhawk]

Exactly. I think there is a correlation, but not necessarily a meaningful one at all times. Even OL and DL. The reviewer doesn't know if the DL's responsibility was one gap or two gap or if a DE crashed down on a certain play because the LB had containment responsibilities. Also, when one DE plays T Smith twice a year and another plays a lesser tackle, they will grade out lower because they will do worse in those two games against T Smith. Like if a CB follows the best WR for the other team all game. His job is just that much harder. It's still way too subjective for my taste.

No question that there is a ton of subjectivity to it. But there is no way around that in football because it is such a complex interconnected sport.

So I appreciate the effort. I just don't get the value of grades that based on limited plays such as the ones for secondary players. Those grades are based almost SOLELY on 3 or 4 plays all game and a corner who is constantly targeted and does well is graded higher than a corner that is completely ignored.

 

[jarntt]

I an accept that this is based on this years stats. PFF just got it all wrong. Maybe whoever typed out the list made a typo. Who knows...but in any case the rankings are baffling.

Mahomes Rankings:

Completion Percentage - 6th
Yards - 1st
YPA - 1st
TD's - 1st
INT - 1st
Rating - 1st

All of that equates to a simple fact that he should be on top of the list.

That's not solely how they grade it. They look at every play and decide how the QB did. If he throws a 5 yard pass to a wide open WR who breaks off a 45 yard TD run, he may not get as much credit as if he threw a 1 yard tight window TD pass. Total yards are not necessarily meaningful but yards per pass are.

Dak throws a TD every 9 passes is leading in Comp % and 2nd to Mahomes in other stats. Even PE has admitted to how amazing Dak is playing. You look small arguing against him at every possible turn. And no, no one expects him to keep this up for 16 games but that isn't the topic.

 

[jarntt]

No question that there is a ton of subjectivity to it. But there is no way around that in football because it is such a complex interconnected sport.

So I appreciate the effort. I just don't get the value of grades that based on limited plays such as the ones for secondary players. Those grades are based almost SOLELY on 3 or 4 plays all game and a corner who is constantly targeted and does well is graded higher than a corner that is completely ignored.

Totally Agree with your premise, but one point. My understanding is they grade CBs on every coverage play whether the guy they are covering gets the ball or not. So it is not based on just a few plays.

 

[flyerhawk]

Totally Agree with your premise, but one point. My understanding is they grade CBs on every coverage play whether the guy they are covering gets the ball or not. So it is not based on just a few plays.

But they only grade them on what is shown in the broadcast coverage of the game. So if a corner is never targeted then he never gets on camera for his coverage and isn't graded. Even worse he may get graded for things like tackles or missed tackles on run plays while his coverage play is ignored.

When Richard Sherman was at his peak there were games where they simply never threw the ball to the right. PFF would give Sherman slightly above average grades despite Sherman basically shutting down half the field for passing.

 

[jarntt]

But they only grade them on what is shown in the broadcast coverage of the game. So if a corner is never targeted then he never gets on camera for his coverage and isn't graded. Even worse he may get graded for things like tackles or missed tackles on run plays while his coverage play is ignored.

When Richard Sherman was at his peak there were games where they simply never threw the ball to the right. PFF would give Sherman slightly above average grades despite Sherman basically shutting down half the field for passing.

I am not an expert and could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they use different camera angles that show the whole field on every play. You can get that yourself online if you want. I remember reading they have a premium package they sell to NFL teams. Not of their rankings of course but I think it has to do with formations used for other teams and things like that.

 

[flyerhawk]

I am not an expert and could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they use different camera angles that show the whole field on every play. You can get that yourself online if you want. I remember reading they have a premium package they sell to NFL teams. Not of their rankings of course but I think it has to do with formations used for other teams and things like that.

They don't. At least they didn't the last time I checked a couple of years ago. They have put most of their stuff behind a pay wall so it's hard to know if that changed.

They made up some gobbledity gook about why they only used the broadcast feed but my guess it was too expensive for them to do it that way so they simply used the broadcast feed.

 

[broncosmitty]

Did you see the play when Agholor actually caught a ball, turned up field and fumbled it without being touched. Really hard to be an Eagles fan right now. Wentz put two game winning TD's right in the receivers hands in the last minutes of our last 2 games and both were dropped.

He and Goedert got game balls from FatMatt.

 

[Clayton]

Maybe, but to be fair they look at every player and every play and have no agenda.

Right, but they obviously have a flaw in their system if they think that Mahomes has only been the 6th best QB and the Chiefs oline has been 13th best despite the Chiefs losing the trench war in all three games so far yet the Chiefs offense is putting up solid passing numbers against some fairly tough defenses.

Mahomes has missed some plays. He does this thing where he looks one direction and throws another. It gets guys wide open on a regular basis. Sometimes he misses that throw because almost no one can do that. I strongly suspect PFF isnt giving him credit for them getting open in the first place but noticing the time when he missed Kelce wide open in the end zone.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

my only defense for this is, when using multiple formulas to create rankings. When the sample size is to small, the ratings will be flawed. Now if this is how it looked at the end of the year, I would say the Formula itself is flawed.

 

[dtgold88]

Right, but they obviously have a flaw in their system if they think that Mahomes has only been the 6th best QB and the Chiefs oline has been 13th best despite the Chiefs losing the trench war in all three games so far yet the Chiefs offense is putting up solid passing numbers against some fairly tough defenses.

Mahomes has missed some plays. He does this thing where he looks one direction and throws another. It gets guys wide open on a regular basis. Sometimes he misses that throw because almost no one can do that. I strongly suspect PFF isnt giving him credit for them getting open in the first place but noticing the time when he missed Kelce wide open in the end zone.

could their be flaws? Sure. But let's be honest...people like PFF when it supports their belief and they find flaws when it doesn't.

My comment stands, though...they watch every player on every play and have no agenda.

 

[PhillyGreen]

That's not solely how they grade it. They look at every play and decide how the QB did. If he throws a 5 yard pass to a wide open WR who breaks off a 45 yard TD run, he may not get as much credit as if he threw a 1 yard tight window TD pass. Total yards are not necessarily meaningful but yards per pass are.

Dak throws a TD every 9 passes is leading in Comp % and 2nd to Mahomes in other stats. Even PE has admitted to how amazing Dak is playing. You look small arguing against him at every possible turn. And no, no one expects him to keep this up for 16 games but that isn't the topic.

Only a Cowboy fan will say that Dak is in Mahomes class. I applaud your homerism. You ignored the fact that I said that Mahomes is better than Wentz as well. Somehow out of all of that you got my arguing against Dak. My impression of Dak has not changed. He is still mid level QB. Torching shitty opponents does nothing to change that.

 

[jarntt]

Only a Cowboy fan will say that Dak is in Mahomes class. I applaud your homerism. You ignored the fact that I said that Mahomes is better than Wentz as well. Somehow out of all of that you got my arguing against Dak. My impression of Dak has not changed. He is still mid level QB. Torching shitty opponents does nothing to change that.

You remain a complete head-scratcher. For the last time we are talking about through THREE GAMES. Are you really this stupid? It's not a ranking of who is better or who has been better in their careers or who will have a better year...it is of who has played well through 3 games. Please at least attempt to grasp that. Dak is playing at an amazingly elite level right now. If he continued at this pace he would have the greatest season in history. No one is saying it will continue beyond 3 games or that he is in Mahomes class. God it is tough to see how you get through the day sometimes...

 

[Oldschool739]

PFF Rankings: NFL Quarterback Rankings following Week 3 | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

1. TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Brady is back atop the quarterback rankings after three strong weeks that have seen him rank second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4% while avoiding any turnover-worthy plays. Brady continues to make good decisions with the ball while throwing accurately to all levels of the field, and he’s off to a start that is more reminiscent of his elite 2015-17 stretch — one of the best in NFL history — rather than last season that saw him regress just a touch on a throw-for-throw basis.

2. DAK PRESCOTT, DALLAS COWBOYS
Coming into the season, we ranked Prescott as a third-tier quarterback, with the descriptor that a good situation (playmakers, offensive line, play-caller) can lead to top-10 production in any given year. That’s exactly what is happening in Dallas, as offensive coordinator Kellen Moore has opened up a play-action game that has seen Prescott go 30-for-37 for 409 yards and a passer rating of 137.5. He’s taken advantage of more favorable play-calling while also throwing the ball extremely well down the field, as his adjusted completion percentage of 68.8% on deep (20-plus-yard) passes ranks fifth in the league, and his overall adjusted completion percentage of 81.7% is first among quarterbacks with at least 50 attempts.

3. CARSON WENTZ, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
Armed with the best weapons in the league on paper coming into the year, Wentz has not had the same supporting cast we expected to see. Injuries have depleted a deep receiving corps, though they showed flashes of big-play ability in Week 1. Wentz has been better than his stats would show, mostly due to four big-time throws falling incomplete compared to just 17 such instances for the rest of the NFL. Wentz ranks fifth in the league in big-time throw percentage, and he’s tied for third with a 92.9 grade on throws targeted 10 or more yards downfield.

4. RUSSELL WILSON, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
It’s another year of big plays from Wilson, who ranks fourth in big-time throw percentage (5.9%) and has avoided any turnover-worthy plays to this point. He’s been accurate to all levels, ranking seventh at avoiding negatives, and the only thing keeping him from being higher on the list is his ranking just 12th in positively graded throws and a poor showing at the intermediate (10-19-yard) level, where Wilson’s 55.0 grade is 10th-worst in the league. Overall, it’s a fantastic start for Wilson, who has avoided the randomly poor decision-making that has littered his tape through the years while still showing off the ability to get the ball down the field efficiently.

5. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
It’s been all about big plays for Watson, who is tied with Brady for second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4%. We’ve seen a few spectacular plays, including a near-comeback in Week 1 against the New Orleans Saints and a few gems this week against the Los Angeles Chargers, but Watson is inviting too much pressure and ranks just 22nd at avoiding negatively graded throws. Watson’s big-play ability has been the story of his young career, but he is still working to find the balance between avoiding pressure and adding more value in the short game.

6. PATRICK MAHOMES, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
The Chiefs’ offense has picked right up where they left off last year, and Mahomes continues to play at a high level despite a dip in a couple of key numbers. He still has the big-time throws, evidenced by his league-leading 8.0 big-time throw percentage, but after ranking second at avoiding negatively graded throws last season, Mahomes ranks just 19th in the same statistic this season. He also has two turnover-worthy plays on fumbles that won’t show up in the gaudy, league-leading 134.9 passer rating, but for Chiefs fans, they should be encouraged that there’s still room to improve as the year progresses

This is a joke , right ?
Brady #1
Rodgers / Mahomes #2 tie
and then there is everyone else...
Any top 5 without AR is just not credible , the end....

 

[jarntt]

This is a joke , right ?
Brady #1
Rodgers / Mahomes #2 tie
and then there is everyone else...
Any top 5 without AR is just not credible , the end....

It's like you are all a bunch of inbreds. For the last time...it is only based on the first 3 games statistics of this season and how they are somehow calculated to create PFFs flawed QB rating system and nothing else. And no, we still haven't figured out exactly why Mahomes is 6th and none of us are sure how Wentz is 3rd either...

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Some would benefit from reading before posting in this thread.

(OP’s title is also misleading)

 

[Dude]

It’s more fun to argue, JFTFOI.

 

[handicappers]

I've been saying this for a long time

Dak > Wentz

BOOM

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Playing QB in the NFL is difficult no doubt. You sound like the Cowboy fans that made every excuse possible to absolve Romo from any blame. Every post you make throws everyone else under the bus in a thinly veiled attempt at keeping the blame off of Wentz. If he hit him in stride it would it have been a game winning TD, correct?

It would have but it was also a throw nobody in the NFL could make so there’s that. Wentz hasn’t been perfect this year but he is the very LEAST of our worries. That was not a poor throw by any means he was falling down and his knee was almost on the ground. Cut the guy a break. That is an impossible throw and it’s a miracle it was even completed. He also put balls right in the hands twice and we could easily be 4-0 with two simple catches. We aren’t a 4-0 team and now we’ve just lost our 4th CB and it looked bad. The secondary is still poor even with the starters but it’s never ending with us. Next week we get to start our 5th and 6th CB. Carson and the O is just simply going to have to outscore everyone every week and we desperately need Desean back. Down 7 guys just on D. SEVEN!

 

[handicappers]

Injury game. The weakest excuse there is.

 

[Oldschool739]

It's like you are all a bunch of inbreds. For the last time...it is only based on the first 3 games statistics of this season and how they are somehow calculated to create PFFs flawed QB rating system and nothing else. And no, we still haven't figured out exactly why Mahomes is 6th and none of us are sure how Wentz is 3rd either...

GB was 3-0 before tonight and AR wasn't even on the list....next !!
Nor have we figured out how Dak was even on the list, let alone #2...
And Harbs wants to know why Buckwheat Jackson isn't #1 because of his unique skills play..