Payton staying in NO

[Pattersonca65]

Crazy happy or meh? Good fit? Good regardless of fit? Bad? I should have just asked what would your feelings be.

IDK. I am happy regardless that Tomsula is gone regardless and still will be as long as it is not Chip Kelly or an obscure position coach or someone currently on the staff. Big time name but haven't given it much thought.

 

[elw4corps]

I am a Shanahan guy. Holmgren is older and hasn't coached in a long time. Washington was just not a good fit. In Denver did a great job until he was given GM responsibilities and made poor choices.

The moment shanhan lost elway he has been bad.

 

[Chamoanlad]

I am a Shanahan guy. Holmgren is older and hasn't coached in a long time. Washington was just not a good fit. In Denver did a great job until he was given GM responsibilities and made poor choices.

I like both Shanny and Holmgren, but it still scares me Shanny hasn't done anything without Elway. Holmgren had Steve Young at first, helped Favre, and then developed Hasselbeck into a good QB. He's been out of the game awhile, but I honestly like Holmgren more.

 

[Pattersonca65]

I like both Shanny and Holmgren, but it still scares me Shanny hasn't done anything without Elway. Holmgren had Steve Young at first, helped Favre, and then developed Hasselbeck into a good QB. He's been out of the game awhile, but I honestly like Holmgren more.

It wasn't just Elway that made that team run. The coaches built a great line. They had three consecutive 1,000 yard rushers. From what one of the Denver Bronco posters told me, things went downhill when Shanahan took on GM/Personnel duties. Holmgren has the same issues though and has failed in that regard.

 

[MHSL82]

It wasn't just Elway that made that team run. The coaches built a great line. They had three consecutive 1,000 yard rushers. From what one of the Denver Bronco posters told me, things went downhill when Shanahan took on GM/Personnel duties. Holmgren has the same issues though and has failed in that regard.

This seems to be a recurring theme. Andy Reid's tenure in Philadelphia went down when he got personnel control. He said he liked not having the responsibility and that helped his current KC career. Kelly by all accounts failed at it. Now, you are saying Shanahan. It seems like GM control should not go to the coaching staff. Coaches coach who is there, giving input to the GM, they will maximize. When coaches GM, they start changing everybody and by the time it would work, your window is gone, your players don't trust you, and you start losing.

But there are exceptions - just like everyone points to Kelly and other college coaches as unfit, there are several who had success. So I'm sure there are Coach-GMs that work, but you have to be pretty sure of it or the franchise goes down. A great GM can prop up some coaches and survive them. A great coach might succeed with failing GMs and personnel (limitedly, but still), but both failing or both the same guy failing, no thanks.

 

[Pattersonca65]

This seems to be a recurring theme. Andy Reid's tenure in Philadelphia went down when he got personnel control. He said he liked not having the responsibility and that helped his current KC career. Kelly by all accounts failed at it. Now, you are saying Shanahan. It seems like GM control should not go to the coaching staff. Coaches coach who is there, giving input to the GM, they will maximize. When coaches GM, they start changing everybody and by the time it would work, your window is gone, your players don't trust you, and you start losing.

But there are exceptions - just like everyone points to Kelly and other college coaches as unfit, there are several who had success. So I'm sure there are Coach-GMs that work, but you have to be pretty sure of it or the franchise goes down. A great GM can prop up some coaches and survive them. A great coach might succeed with failing GMs and personnel (limitedly, but still), but both failing or both the same guy failing, no thanks.

I wasn't aware that was an issue with Any Reid in Philly. In the NFL today trying to be an NFL coach and GM is really difficult with the salary cap and free agency. There are few coaches that should be given that type of responsibility. Bill Walsh was someone that thrived in that role. He had a great eye for talent and completing the roster. Today Bellicheck probably does both well.

 

[AU_Fever]

Colts/Pagano, Saints/Payton get done what 49ers/Harbaugh could not

Interesting read. Maybe one reason why Payton and Saints decide to work out their differences. Good coaches just do not grow on trees. Maybe Saints learned a lesson from the Niners' debacle.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Colts/Pagano, Saints/Payton get done what 49ers/Harbaugh could not

Interesting read. Maybe one reason why Payton and Saints decide to work out their differences. Good coaches just do not grow on trees. Maybe Saints learned a lesson from the Niners' debacle.

I saw that. Kinda hard to compare. The article is really brief and doesn't give us any information about what really happened behind the scenes at what the issues are. I am guessing the toxicity in SF was much stronger in SF than they are in NO between the parties. Some day we will probably find out the whole story. Pozz posted some funny stuff he came across about what is was like in the FO while Harbaugh was there.

 

[deep9er]

Colts/Pagano, Saints/Payton get done what 49ers/Harbaugh could not

Interesting read. Maybe one reason why Payton and Saints decide to work out their differences. Good coaches just do not grow on trees. Maybe Saints learned a lesson from the Niners' debacle.

from reading this article, seems there were deeper issues in Indy and N.O., that started much earlier. this means there is much more 'discontent' and 'bad blood' than made public. IF this is the case, have to agree you can't just have a meeting and everything is "rosy" again. You can't just talk for a few hours and everything is fine. it will be for SHORT term, but not really fixed. it would just take a little losing - say 3 games in a row - and all the "issues" will rise again.

Relate this to Harbaugh who is no doubt a good coach, but don't think he'd have lead 2015 to the play-offs? Even if Harbaugh was here now, he would not take THIS team to the play-offs next season. So even had the 49ers "made it work" last year, it would've been a SHORT term fix, a facade really. After an 8-8 season, there would be even worse 'fueding' between coaches and FO.

Very unfortunate they couldn't get along, but that was the case so everyone HAD to move on.

 

[AU_Fever]

from reading this article, seems there were deeper issues in Indy and N.O., that started much earlier. this means there is much more 'discontent' and 'bad blood' than made public. IF this is the case, have to agree you can't just have a meeting and everything is "rosy" again. You can't just talk for a few hours and everything is fine. it will be for SHORT term, but not really fixed. it would just take a little losing - say 3 games in a row - and all the "issues" will rise again.

Relate this to Harbaugh who is no doubt a good coach, but don't think he'd have lead 2015 to the play-offs? Even if Harbaugh was here now, he would not take THIS team to the play-offs next season. So even had the 49ers "made it work" last year, it would've been a SHORT term fix, a facade really. After an 8-8 season, there would be even worse 'fueding' between coaches and FO.

Very unfortunate they couldn't get along, but that was the case so everyone HAD to move on.

I agree with this assessment Deep. Harbaugh wouldn't have done much better last season with the talent the Niners had. With all the retirements, FA, and releases of players (AldonSmith as an example), Harbaugh would have been fortunate to finish 8-8. The relationship between Harbaugh and the FO was already tenuous and it reached a point of no return. It was indeed very unfortunate that they couldn't coexist.

 

[Pattersonca65]

from reading this article, seems there were deeper issues in Indy and N.O., that started much earlier. this means there is much more 'discontent' and 'bad blood' than made public. IF this is the case, have to agree you can't just have a meeting and everything is "rosy" again. You can't just talk for a few hours and everything is fine. it will be for SHORT term, but not really fixed. it would just take a little losing - say 3 games in a row - and all the "issues" will rise again.

Relate this to Harbaugh who is no doubt a good coach, but don't think he'd have lead 2015 to the play-offs? Even if Harbaugh was here now, he would not take THIS team to the play-offs next season. So even had the 49ers "made it work" last year, it would've been a SHORT term fix, a facade really. After an 8-8 season, there would be even worse 'fueding' between coaches and FO.

Very unfortunate they couldn't get along, but that was the case so everyone HAD to move on.

I don't think the 49ers would have made the playoffs with Harbaugh this year. I think they would have played better under Harbaugh possibly could enough for 8-8 record at best. We would have been much better off on defense with Fangio running his basic schemes and having coaching continuity on defense. The defense would not have been dominant because of the infusion of young players but the defense would have been more consistent and would not have had the early season struggles due to Mangini's scheme issues. The offense still would have been bad as it was getting worse by the year under Harbaugh. I believe Harbaugh is a good coach overall but I also believe he was too stubborn to make the proper changes offense. While the offense might have been a little better under Harbaugh this year I wouldn't say by that much

 

[Robotech]

At least it sounded like there was a chance of getting Payton, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Cut My Red I Bleed Gold]

At least it sounded like there was a chance of getting Payton, for whatever that's worth.

No

 

[Pattersonca65]

At least it sounded like there was a chance of getting Payton, for whatever that's worth.

LOL, word was he has interested in SF and one other team. But I bet the problem of compensation to NO plus the amount of control Payton would want made it highly unlikely.